F10 M5 traction

[mikeN54]

BMW do have some in-house machines, KDS they call it.

They usually charge £300 for the pleasure and the results depend very much on the operator. They only aim to get the geo "in the green" pass band. They don't spend time trying to get it centred within the tolerances.

I prefer a motorsport / expert geo place who will offer suggested improvements over the factory alignments settings.

Factory alignments are set for understeer / slow response / stability / low drag etc or whatever the factory wants. I had E90 M3 geo applied to my E91 335i and it transformed the cars handling in an instant.

But you need an experienced & knowledgeable operator to do that, not a 19yo ex kwik-fit fitter "computer says no" BM technician who's been on a 1 day course and is then the dealership "expert".

Edited by mikeN54 on Wednesday 9th March 14:47

[theboss]

My car is on a KDS rig today so I'll let you know how I get on with it. I've had some slight vibration in the wheel at [cough] higher speeds. The cost is something like £195

[W8PMC]

ds666 said:

I'm not sure BMW sub out their geo - last time I used them I was very impressed and sure it was done in house .
Ref traction - my traction control light flashes all the way through first and second on wot in the dry - I've only had it since Dec and typically low temps . All the youtube video I've see of M5 acceleration clearly shows the same . Are some people suggesting no traction light in lower gears ?

Never seen a 4 wheel laser alignment rig in the BMW dealers i've visited but then that's only about 3 so i guess some may have them.

As above, i'd rather a specialist checked & then adjusted my car but i'm also never going to pay 3- 5X the cost to have this kind of work done by a dealer. I'd only have them touch the car for oil changes & specified Inspections, everything else it's an Independent for me.

[Amizade]

I have 20's on p-zeros & after reading about traction issues in the wet/cold/damp I have been relieved that I have not found it to be an issue. Providing I start rolling, up shift early, it piles on the speed. I have had the odd squirm when not being careful, but nothing a dab of oppo can't sort out... But in the wet I keep well away from MDM/M1/M2

[mondie]

I totally agree the M5 is too much for RWD especially if you live in the frozen north. I started a thread on an AWD M% a little while back which may be of interest

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

would love another M5 with added grip.

[stranger12]

sorry to open old thread but I have the same issue.

bloody car does not grip and it is very frustrating as you always have to be on gaurd when putting your foot down

with tcs on, backend kicked out 70mph on m6 in third gear so if you switch it off you may end up with a crash

[Zod]

RC82 said:

Are winter tyres an option on the latest M5, for colder conditions?

Yes. BMW offers winter options on every car and the M cars have specific winter wheel and tyre sets. I ran winter wheels and tyres on my E60 (as I do on my V12V). You need all the help you can get with powerful RWD cars in winter.

[TrickyTrevM5]

it would be interesting to know what car you had before the M5.

as a massive sweeping generalisation, and i apologise for that.... If you had a big powerful forced induction car prior to the M5, is it not the norm to feather the throttle to get the most from the performance - is it fair to say that a normally aspirated car will work with you a bit more than a car who has some form of forced induction as the mechanical grip is more progressive ?

Also, as they are quite heavy, there is inertia to work against you so adhesion from the tyres is critical.

Based on my own experience, my old E46 m3 was pretty good off the line, my supercharged e55 was less so.... the F10 is similar to the E55.

I do agree with the earlier post where having to finesse the throttle is something that you have to think about and i enjoy that. Just mashing the pedal and letting the car sort it out is a bit less engaging. Working with the manual set up to try to balance the power and grip is part of the fun for me

Edited by TrickyTrevM5 on Friday 6th January 09:18

Edited by TrickyTrevM5 on Friday 6th January 17:09

[HoHoHo]

Zod said:

RC82 said:

Are winter tyres an option on the latest M5, for colder conditions?

Yes. BMW offers winter options on every car and the M cars have specific winter wheel and tyre sets. I ran winter wheels and tyres on my E60 (as I do on my V12V). You need all the help you can get with powerful RWD cars in winter.

I ran winters on mine and they transformed the car in low/wet/st conditions.

I very quickly got used to feathering the throttle otherwise you simply don't make progress.

My 50D X5 is probably more user friendly in winter simply because of the weight and 4 wheel drive - but it's a million miles away from an M car

[Wills2]

stranger12 said:

sorry to open old thread but I have the same issue.

bloody car does not grip and it is very frustrating as you always have to be on gaurd when putting your foot down

with tcs on, backend kicked out 70mph on m6 in third gear so if you switch it off you may end up with a crash

Yeah it's an unruly beast if you slam the pedal to the floor, I once had mine fishtailing at 90mph on the M1 pretty scary.

In the dry though the pull from 70mph when it grips is impressive the only car I've had that I believed was putting out more power than advertised.

[mikeN54]

I run a 725bhp mapped M6GC with Michelin PSSs and don't have any issues above those to be expected this time of year.

The throttle pedal has a portion between ON & OFF which comes in useful sometimes.

I also still use it in MDM mode even in bad weather (except on motorway runs) as this allows some slip and its easier to modulate the throttle when you can find this point than when the electronics blindly pulls the rug from under you.

[W8PMC]

mikeN54 said:

I run a 725bhp mapped M6GC with Michelin PSSs and don't have any issues above those to be expected this time of year.

The throttle pedal has a portion between ON & OFF which comes in useful sometimes.

I also still use it in MDM mode even in bad weather (except on motorway runs) as this allows some slip and its easier to modulate the throttle when you can find this point than when the electronics blindly pulls the rug from under you.

As above (albeit M5 not GC) & i'm running MPSS on the standard 19's & have very little issue that wouldn't be expected with such power levels in poor conditions. Did run Winters last year & they improve Winter traction but go off at the point MPSS come on strong so i didn't bother with them this year & sold them. The M5 goes in a few weeks & traction issues of any magnitude in my next car won't be an issue, however parking the damned thing might.

[V5Ade]

I waited until late December before swapping to my BMW winter wheels\tyres these make a massive difference, however I could still drive it with the PSSs. You just need to remember it's a 550+bhp car for drivers, so don't mash the throttle like you would in Micra\Ka\Audi

[BigLion]

stranger12 said:

sorry to open old thread but I have the same issue.

bloody car does not grip and it is very frustrating as you always have to be on gaurd when putting your foot down

with tcs on, backend kicked out 70mph on m6 in third gear so if you switch it off you may end up with a crash

I'm not a driving god or anything, but I've had zero issues - however let me explain what I mean by that as people have various interpretations,

So today it was about 3.5 degrees outside and roads were damp - as I approached my favourite road I manually put the car into 2nd gear at around 20mph...then I planted the throttle to the floor and kept the wheels straight...the m5 motored up the road and I can feel in certain points the TC kicking in and very slight wiggle in the rear end, but I didn't do anything to correct it and it just continued to make progress. I felt very safe all the way through.

In 3rd gear (same conditions) I could drop down from 6th gear and plant my foot to overtake a car and it just does it without any real drama. On occasions I see the TC light flicker when doing this but I feel nothing within the car like the back end moving.

This is with efficiency throttle setting and comfort suspension.

I run 20 inch MPSS and the dealer has recently done a 4 wheel alignment.

This car is no more than a handful than any other RWD car IME.

[Amizade]

Definitely feels nicer now I have MPSS instead of Pirellis - a tad more grip & better feel.

But on the way to having the tyres fitted, it was v early in the morning and I thought I would use this as an opportunity to see what all the fuss was about with the MDM aka Dukes of Hazard button... everything seemed turned up to 11 and you need your wits about you for some quick, progressive opposite lock - I decided that MDM is something best left for an NSL road & ideally with a bit of run off & a clear view to the horizon line!

[RWD cossie wil]

BigLion said:

stranger12 said:

sorry to open old thread but I have the same issue.

bloody car does not grip and it is very frustrating as you always have to be on gaurd when putting your foot down

with tcs on, backend kicked out 70mph on m6 in third gear so if you switch it off you may end up with a crash

I'm not a driving god or anything, but I've had zero issues - however let me explain what I mean by that as people have various interpretations,

So today it was about 3.5 degrees outside and roads were damp - as I approached my favourite road I manually put the car into 2nd gear at around 20mph...then I planted the throttle to the floor and kept the wheels straight...the m5 motored up the road and I can feel in certain points the TC kicking in and very slight wiggle in the rear end, but I didn't do anything to correct it and it just continued to make progress. I felt very safe all the way through.

In 3rd gear (same conditions) I could drop down from 6th gear and plant my foot to overtake a car and it just does it without any real drama. On occasions I see the TC light flicker when doing this but I feel nothing within the car like the back end moving.

This is with efficiency throttle setting and comfort suspension.

I run 20 inch MPSS and the dealer has recently done a 4 wheel alignment.

This car is no more than a handful than any other RWD car IME.

Try all that with the traction & stability control off

But in essence you are right, a powerful RWD car will respond to how you treat it, 500+Bhp in the wet is always going to be difficult to deploy...

[BigLion]

RWD cossie wil said:

BigLion said:

stranger12 said:

sorry to open old thread but I have the same issue.

bloody car does not grip and it is very frustrating as you always have to be on gaurd when putting your foot down

with tcs on, backend kicked out 70mph on m6 in third gear so if you switch it off you may end up with a crash

I'm not a driving god or anything, but I've had zero issues - however let me explain what I mean by that as people have various interpretations,

So today it was about 3.5 degrees outside and roads were damp - as I approached my favourite road I manually put the car into 2nd gear at around 20mph...then I planted the throttle to the floor and kept the wheels straight...the m5 motored up the road and I can feel in certain points the TC kicking in and very slight wiggle in the rear end, but I didn't do anything to correct it and it just continued to make progress. I felt very safe all the way through.

In 3rd gear (same conditions) I could drop down from 6th gear and plant my foot to overtake a car and it just does it without any real drama. On occasions I see the TC light flicker when doing this but I feel nothing within the car like the back end moving.

This is with efficiency throttle setting and comfort suspension.

I run 20 inch MPSS and the dealer has recently done a 4 wheel alignment.

This car is no more than a handful than any other RWD car IME.

Try all that with the traction & stability control off

But in essence you are right, a powerful RWD car will respond to how you treat it, 500+Bhp in the wet is always going to be difficult to deploy...

Out of interest if the traction control was off the wheels would just spin and on a straight that would sort itself anyhow?

[RWD cossie wil]

BigLion said:

RWD cossie wil said:

BigLion said:

stranger12 said:

sorry to open old thread but I have the same issue.

bloody car does not grip and it is very frustrating as you always have to be on gaurd when putting your foot down

with tcs on, backend kicked out 70mph on m6 in third gear so if you switch it off you may end up with a crash

I'm not a driving god or anything, but I've had zero issues - however let me explain what I mean by that as people have various interpretations,

So today it was about 3.5 degrees outside and roads were damp - as I approached my favourite road I manually put the car into 2nd gear at around 20mph...then I planted the throttle to the floor and kept the wheels straight...the m5 motored up the road and I can feel in certain points the TC kicking in and very slight wiggle in the rear end, but I didn't do anything to correct it and it just continued to make progress. I felt very safe all the way through.

In 3rd gear (same conditions) I could drop down from 6th gear and plant my foot to overtake a car and it just does it without any real drama. On occasions I see the TC light flicker when doing this but I feel nothing within the car like the back end moving.

This is with efficiency throttle setting and comfort suspension.

I run 20 inch MPSS and the dealer has recently done a 4 wheel alignment.

This car is no more than a handful than any other RWD car IME.

Try all that with the traction & stability control off

But in essence you are right, a powerful RWD car will respond to how you treat it, 500+Bhp in the wet is always going to be difficult to deploy...

Out of interest if the traction control was off the wheels would just spin and on a straight that would sort itself anyhow?

It will tend to swing one way or the other with a multitude of reasons, road camber, surface, steering angle however slight, etc etc.... electronic safety nets are so good these days it's lulling people into thinking that a 2 tonne 550Bhp+ Rear drive car isn't seriously dangerous in the wrong hands!

[HoHoHo]

RWD cossie wil said:

It will tend to swing one way or the other with a multitude of reasons, road camber, surface, steering angle however slight, etc etc.... electronic safety nets are so good these days it's lulling people into thinking that a 2 tonne 550Bhp+ Rear drive car isn't seriously dangerous in the wrong hands!

Absolutely.

I found mine to be totally sublime and even with my limited 562bhp experience really easy to drive.

I suspect if you turned the TC off very quickly you'll do the Hokey Cokey and turn around very quickly

With TC on the light flashes constantly, the car continues in a straight line you just don't make progress as fast it you would like to,

As I've (and others) have mentioned, to get the best out of the F10 M5 you need to learn to feather and respect the throttle.

Even in the wet rarely did the TC light flash because it's all about being as smooth as possible and not being a total hooligan.

[Andy M]

I unintentionally had my standard M5 spinning its rear tyres in 6th gear last night while short-shifting onto a motorway access road. This was with traction control on.

Edited by Andy M on Tuesday 10th January 08:39