Are e60 m5's as unreliable as the internet says?
Discussion
As tiltle im looking for an e60 m5, looked at a couple of cars allready but neither have been quite right. Ive been doing my research online and there seems a lot of people with long lists of expensive issues to sort all the time. Im no stranger to performance cars so i fully understand that things like fuel/tyres/servicing are expensive, i can deal with things like that but its a little concerning reading tales of people spending thousands on repairs regularly. Is this reality of what they are like to live with? Or just internet bull? Thanks
Depends on the car. The M6 and M5 are the same underneath the different bodies. They share the same suspension, transmission, engine, brake etc etc etc as each other so all issues overlap predictably as one might imagine.
Mine was under warranty all its life from 2006 and still had all the issues that the internet stories widely report
Clutch, flywheel, clutch position sensor = a given on any car under 100,000 miles really. Can't remember exact price but I'm sure it cost over £1500 for all the parts. BMW wanted £2800 for the same job.
VANOS issues = nothing mega, turned out it was just a VANOS valve that needed replacing. Front end strip down (apparently, so I was told). Others have not been so lucky and had entire units replaced. BMW told me the full unit was many £x000's so I was lucky to have a warranty really.
Throttle actuator(s). One under my ownership and the other shortly after the new owner bought it. Covered under warranty by BMW so no biggie.
Cooling fan and thermostat = car would randomly cut out at a standstill after a blast or a long drive, ECU detected over-heating and cut the engine. Always re-started immediately but BMW changed it under warranty during their diagnosis'. Never happened again after the fix(es).
Parking sensors = more annoying than anything else really.
Mega cars on a blast and epic engine noise but make sure the work has been done. Also ensure that tyres have lots of tread on them (budget £200-250 per corner), brakes have lots of life left by doing a physical as well as iDrive check, and check that you are many miles away from any scheduled services.
If you can get one under warranty - which is becoming harder and harder it would appear - then go for it.
I'm sure they'll become an appreciating asset in the not too distant future.
This was mine, which I still miss occasionally
Mine was under warranty all its life from 2006 and still had all the issues that the internet stories widely report
Clutch, flywheel, clutch position sensor = a given on any car under 100,000 miles really. Can't remember exact price but I'm sure it cost over £1500 for all the parts. BMW wanted £2800 for the same job.
VANOS issues = nothing mega, turned out it was just a VANOS valve that needed replacing. Front end strip down (apparently, so I was told). Others have not been so lucky and had entire units replaced. BMW told me the full unit was many £x000's so I was lucky to have a warranty really.
Throttle actuator(s). One under my ownership and the other shortly after the new owner bought it. Covered under warranty by BMW so no biggie.
Cooling fan and thermostat = car would randomly cut out at a standstill after a blast or a long drive, ECU detected over-heating and cut the engine. Always re-started immediately but BMW changed it under warranty during their diagnosis'. Never happened again after the fix(es).
Parking sensors = more annoying than anything else really.
Mega cars on a blast and epic engine noise but make sure the work has been done. Also ensure that tyres have lots of tread on them (budget £200-250 per corner), brakes have lots of life left by doing a physical as well as iDrive check, and check that you are many miles away from any scheduled services.
If you can get one under warranty - which is becoming harder and harder it would appear - then go for it.
I'm sure they'll become an appreciating asset in the not too distant future.
This was mine, which I still miss occasionally
Edited by Schermerhorn on Thursday 21st April 13:30
Having owned an E60 M5 I can say the only thing memorable about the car was the sound. Had a number of issues all fixed under warranty (you have to have a bulletproof warranty if buying one of these). Personally, I think the thought of owning one exceeds the actual experience. It was a great benchmark for the time and full of tech, but pain to run as a daily. The range was appalling at 170-200 miles a tank, which meant needing to constantly plan trips around refueling. It didn't bother me that the fuel economy was poor, what did was that the fuel tank was too small.
I loved mine. Having owned a couple of E39 M5's, and given internet folklore, I was expecting the E60 to be a bit of a let down, but that soon disappeared when I drove it. The SMG 'box was surprisingly good, and the noise it made was fantastic. Mine had BMW warranty and I certainly wouldn't own on without that in place. Anything that's likely to go wrong is a 4 figure job, as detailed above.
Sadly, I sold mine to fund a house move, but I know that the chap who bought it still owns it and has it under the extended Mondial warranty.
I certainly had a few fantastic drives in the car, alongside the daily grind. Quite fancy an E61 M5, or even an F10 next.
Sadly, I sold mine to fund a house move, but I know that the chap who bought it still owns it and has it under the extended Mondial warranty.
I certainly had a few fantastic drives in the car, alongside the daily grind. Quite fancy an E61 M5, or even an F10 next.
Schermerhorn said:
I'm sure they'll become an appreciating asset in the not too distant future.
I don't question their brilliance, but I do have my doubts that they'll ever be an appreciating classic, simply due to the epic running costs as neatly outlined in the rest of your post. And certainly I struggle to see a time when their appreciation outweighs the costs of ownership.It's a real shame these have so many well-documented ways to spoil your day. I would definitely have one if the maintenance costs weren't so nuts.
I have 2 E60 M5,s... the first one had an SMG failure and ended up being flood damaged by the garage that looked at it and thus I have had to break it for parts (read took engine out and fitted it in my capri) after spending a fortune trying to repair the water damage. I bought a second one when i finally accepted the first one would not come back on the road.
I genuinely love the car, as a large family car it is amazing, looks great imo, sounds awesome and the performance is of cause pretty good... some never got on with their car so I do think they are a bit marmite.
Downsides is they are quite techy and thus electrical issues can be hard to fix cheaply as diagnosing them is still pretty specialised (and ridiculously expense with BMW)... the fuel economy is amazingly bad and pootling around doesn't help, tyres are pricy.
Only issue I have had with my new one is that the battery is past its best and needs replacing and the car keeps telling me so..... the new battery has been in the boot waiting fitment for a month now, just not got round to it yet.
Clearly I think they are worth owning
I genuinely love the car, as a large family car it is amazing, looks great imo, sounds awesome and the performance is of cause pretty good... some never got on with their car so I do think they are a bit marmite.
Downsides is they are quite techy and thus electrical issues can be hard to fix cheaply as diagnosing them is still pretty specialised (and ridiculously expense with BMW)... the fuel economy is amazingly bad and pootling around doesn't help, tyres are pricy.
Only issue I have had with my new one is that the battery is past its best and needs replacing and the car keeps telling me so..... the new battery has been in the boot waiting fitment for a month now, just not got round to it yet.
Clearly I think they are worth owning
Seems very difficult to find one with warranty still in place, and the cost of re starting one with bmw is err, lots. Are any other warranty companies worth considering or has anyone had experience of a non bmw warranty? Ive read up on them aswell and all the reviews tend to say there not brilliant. Im planning to look at a car which has had the clutch done recently, full history with a recent big service, full new set of michelin tyres, fresh mot ect ect, but not under warranty. Was thinking this may hopefully not want too much spending inthe near future, but who knows.
stevec33 said:
Seems very difficult to find one with warranty still in place, and the cost of re starting one with bmw is err, lots. Are any other warranty companies worth considering or has anyone had experience of a non bmw warranty? Ive read up on them aswell and all the reviews tend to say there not brilliant. Im planning to look at a car which has had the clutch done recently, full history with a recent big service, full new set of michelin tyres, fresh mot ect ect, but not under warranty. Was thinking this may hopefully not want too much spending inthe near future, but who knows.
If the car has a stack of paperwork with it and many of the big jobs done like I outlined, it may be worth a punt.Have at least £2000 as a slush fund ready if anything 'big' pops up. Go into ownership fully prepared in terms of knowledge etc and it won't be a mega shock to you.
I recently picked up an E61 M5 from the dealer.
I also did the research and it became disturbing in what I was reading but it's the Internet and you're always going to hear horror stories. Do plenty of research and arm yourself with as much info as you can take in.
Mine is a 2008 model and 216/222 so hopefully all the earlier horror stories might have been rectified by then, it's low miles and as yet is an epic car! Just had a weekend away in Wales and managed to get 280 out of full tank, mainly the A55 but I was looning about on the quiet coast roads.
I've already amassed a clutch/flywheel and discs/pads all round, far from being needed but nice to know I've got the parts on the shelf when needed.
As others have said regarding the small fuel tank, it's not the best but who cares when the V10 fires up.
I also did the research and it became disturbing in what I was reading but it's the Internet and you're always going to hear horror stories. Do plenty of research and arm yourself with as much info as you can take in.
Mine is a 2008 model and 216/222 so hopefully all the earlier horror stories might have been rectified by then, it's low miles and as yet is an epic car! Just had a weekend away in Wales and managed to get 280 out of full tank, mainly the A55 but I was looning about on the quiet coast roads.
I've already amassed a clutch/flywheel and discs/pads all round, far from being needed but nice to know I've got the parts on the shelf when needed.
As others have said regarding the small fuel tank, it's not the best but who cares when the V10 fires up.
andygtt said:
I have 2 E60 M5,s... the first one had an SMG failure and ended up being flood damaged by the garage that looked at it and thus I have had to break it for parts (read took engine out and fitted it in my capri) after spending a fortune trying to repair the water damage. I bought a second one when i finally accepted the first one would not come back on the road.
M5 V10 lump in a Capri 
Any more info on that?!
I bought a 2005 M6 18 months ago with around 47,000 miles on the clock and have just ticked over
the 60,000 mark. I HAVE NO WARRANTY. Parts so far needed include 2x rear brake calipers, Alternator,
New battery, A broken spring on the front punctured a tyre and as a precaution I changed all 4 to Eibach springs. Routine servicing including brake fluid change and 2x oil changes and diff oil and friction modifier. Diff still very noisy at low speed so I have sourced a replacement. I have a very knowledgeable indy near me Graham Martin Automotive and they have a very good understanding of these cras.Probably spent around 2k on it so far which is about what the warranty would have cost so not so bad.I love driving the car although it has attracted a couple of speeding fines.
the 60,000 mark. I HAVE NO WARRANTY. Parts so far needed include 2x rear brake calipers, Alternator,
New battery, A broken spring on the front punctured a tyre and as a precaution I changed all 4 to Eibach springs. Routine servicing including brake fluid change and 2x oil changes and diff oil and friction modifier. Diff still very noisy at low speed so I have sourced a replacement. I have a very knowledgeable indy near me Graham Martin Automotive and they have a very good understanding of these cras.Probably spent around 2k on it so far which is about what the warranty would have cost so not so bad.I love driving the car although it has attracted a couple of speeding fines.
I'm had mine for seven years now, its always been my daily drive and I've experienced many of the problems / expense that go with the territory - but ironically no drive train issues. Running costs don't have to be as bad as the internet would have you think, I did front and rear brakes for around £900, I always buy oil in bulk (about 40% cheaper than dealer prices) and have just bought a new set of Conti Sport 6's for £680. I don't feel the need to everywhere sideways these days so my average fuel consumption is just under 20mpg but on a longer run a range of 300+ miles is easily achievable.
Buying on condition will only get you so far, when I bought my second M5 (the first got written off) I thought I'd found a peach in terms of drive train condition and feel, but within the first year of ownership I needed a new DSC unit, throttle actuator, starter motor, diff seal and boot lock - all were handily covered under warranty but none with the exception of the throttle actuator could have been predicted.
Go into it with your eyes wide open and either a BMW warranty or a decent rainy day fund.
Buying on condition will only get you so far, when I bought my second M5 (the first got written off) I thought I'd found a peach in terms of drive train condition and feel, but within the first year of ownership I needed a new DSC unit, throttle actuator, starter motor, diff seal and boot lock - all were handily covered under warranty but none with the exception of the throttle actuator could have been predicted.
Go into it with your eyes wide open and either a BMW warranty or a decent rainy day fund.
MattOz said:
I loved mine. Having owned a couple of E39 M5's, and given internet folklore, I was expecting the E60 to be a bit of a let down, but that soon disappeared when I drove it. The SMG 'box was surprisingly good, and the noise it made was fantastic. Mine had BMW warranty and I certainly wouldn't own on without that in place. Anything that's likely to go wrong is a 4 figure job, as detailed above.
Sadly, I sold mine to fund a house move, but I know that the chap who bought it still owns it and has it under the extended Mondial warranty.
I certainly had a few fantastic drives in the car, alongside the daily grind. Quite fancy an E61 M5, or even an F10 next.
I bought my M5 from MattOz and have had it just over 2 and a half years, only problem I've had is both throttle actuators at the same time but this was covered by the Mondial warranty. Other than that it's been perfectly reliable. Their are plenty of people that run them without warranty. Mine doesn't get driven that hard on the road as most of the time I use it to just nip to the shops etc. Although I did do a trackday at Brands last year without any issue and I have another booked at Bedford in 2 weeks with a fellow E60 M5 owner. The SMG was brilliant on track.Sadly, I sold mine to fund a house move, but I know that the chap who bought it still owns it and has it under the extended Mondial warranty.
I certainly had a few fantastic drives in the car, alongside the daily grind. Quite fancy an E61 M5, or even an F10 next.
I don't know about them in general but a lad at work got one from a main dealer and handed it back after 5 months. It spent most of that in the garage. It had a bad flat spot under acceleration and they couldn't fix it or even identify what was wrong. They admitted that they experienced the fault on test drives but it had them stumped. I thinhk he said he paid about £20k for it and ended up accepting £19k back from the dealer just to get shot.
I ran 2 e60 M5s for a total of 4 years and neither car actually let me down.
During my ownership both had to go into the dealers for small niggles, things like the fuel gauge stopped working, but generally nothing major.
However, it is a complicated car so everything tends to be expensive to diagnose and then fix so I wouldn't run one with a BMW warranty.
During my ownership both had to go into the dealers for small niggles, things like the fuel gauge stopped working, but generally nothing major.
However, it is a complicated car so everything tends to be expensive to diagnose and then fix so I wouldn't run one with a BMW warranty.
I bought my M6 a year ago with a warranty, which I've had to use once (DSC/ABS pump thingy). Fuel consumption is poor, size of fuel tank criminal. I use mine as a daily driver and have put 22000 miles on it in 12 months, ie visit the fuel station at least 3X a week. Other than the 1 warranty claim the only expenses have been a set of rear tyres and servicing
You'll find lots of horror stories on the internet, and while these are complicated cars (it's a supercar after all) the majority of owners probably have few issues and never go near an internet forum.
You'll find lots of horror stories on the internet, and while these are complicated cars (it's a supercar after all) the majority of owners probably have few issues and never go near an internet forum.
Huge shame as I almost bought an E61 but got the smoker version instead - it comes very bottom here http://www.reliabilityindex.com/reliability/search...
Its strange as we have had many Beemers and they all have silly design faults that can cost you £500 (last one was water ingress to spare wheel well - not that there is a spare wheel there - thats extra - but there are plenty of air suspension and parking distance electronics in there to get swimming. Stupid!). However on the whole they are pretty OK - my 530d hit 220,000 with very little bother etc. But the stuff that fails on only on the M5 is peculiar.
Its strange as we have had many Beemers and they all have silly design faults that can cost you £500 (last one was water ingress to spare wheel well - not that there is a spare wheel there - thats extra - but there are plenty of air suspension and parking distance electronics in there to get swimming. Stupid!). However on the whole they are pretty OK - my 530d hit 220,000 with very little bother etc. But the stuff that fails on only on the M5 is peculiar.
So I've run my 2005 car for almost 5 years now and it's still covered by the comprehensive Mondial warranty. In that time it's had:
- clutch and flywheel replaced under warranty due to slave cylinder failure
- fuel pump replacement (warranty)
- vanos solenoids (warranty)
- DME module (warranty)
- PDC sensors x3 (warranty but now playing up again)
- throttle actuator x1 (warranty)
Apart from consumables like tyres and brakes, the only thing I've paid out for is a replacement wheel bearing.
My time with it may be limited now, as I've mostly moved to a country that doesn't have a terribly enlightened view on cars with large engines and prefers to tax the crap out of them. I definitely haven't tired of it owning it otherwise.
- clutch and flywheel replaced under warranty due to slave cylinder failure
- fuel pump replacement (warranty)
- vanos solenoids (warranty)
- DME module (warranty)
- PDC sensors x3 (warranty but now playing up again)
- throttle actuator x1 (warranty)
Apart from consumables like tyres and brakes, the only thing I've paid out for is a replacement wheel bearing.
My time with it may be limited now, as I've mostly moved to a country that doesn't have a terribly enlightened view on cars with large engines and prefers to tax the crap out of them. I definitely haven't tired of it owning it otherwise.
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