Looking at an E60 M5 tomorrow
Discussion
Stick me in my old E63 M6 and you in your hairdressers 993 
and I guarantee you wouldn't see which way I went, unless the roads got seriously narrow and had some very tight slowlish bends.
I've not driven a V10 M5, so can't speak with any authority on it's chassis dynamics, but my old V10 M6 would murder a 993 irrespective of whether it was a VR or non-VR car. (Ex 993 RS owner who's driven a few C2/4 993's too).
And yes, I concur, full auto mode is hopeless, but the gearbox is otherwise superb when you're on it. The engine is a masterpiece, and quite frankly when you extend it round to the upper eschelons of the rev range (no hardship) it makes the unit in the 993 seem something really quite agricultural, slow revving and dare I say it ? Dickensian.
Just as with decent 993's, buy on condition, not on spec, so if you happen to find an M5 with superb provenance, full BMW service history, a nice thick history folder, minimal owners, a BMW warranty, that drives perfectly (and has preferably has had a recent clutch/flywheel, throttle actuators etc) but is not your chosen colour/spec , don't just automatically walk away, it may be far, far better than a dog in the right coulour/spec that has numerous problems waiting in the wings.
and I guarantee you wouldn't see which way I went, unless the roads got seriously narrow and had some very tight slowlish bends. I've not driven a V10 M5, so can't speak with any authority on it's chassis dynamics, but my old V10 M6 would murder a 993 irrespective of whether it was a VR or non-VR car. (Ex 993 RS owner who's driven a few C2/4 993's too).
And yes, I concur, full auto mode is hopeless, but the gearbox is otherwise superb when you're on it. The engine is a masterpiece, and quite frankly when you extend it round to the upper eschelons of the rev range (no hardship) it makes the unit in the 993 seem something really quite agricultural, slow revving and dare I say it ? Dickensian.
Just as with decent 993's, buy on condition, not on spec, so if you happen to find an M5 with superb provenance, full BMW service history, a nice thick history folder, minimal owners, a BMW warranty, that drives perfectly (and has preferably has had a recent clutch/flywheel, throttle actuators etc) but is not your chosen colour/spec , don't just automatically walk away, it may be far, far better than a dog in the right coulour/spec that has numerous problems waiting in the wings.
Slippydiff said:
Stick me in my old E63 M6 and you in your hairdressers 993 and I guarantee you wouldn't see which way I went, unless the roads got seriously narrow and had some very tight slowlish bends.
Haha! True and I guarantee you wouldn't see which way I went, unless the roads got seriously narrow and had some very tight slowlish bends. 
my comment was more in the context that until you get used to it, you're always faster in the car you know and can thrash than a car you don't and can't not that being faster matters obviously so long as you're having fun Mario149 said:
Slippydiff said:
Stick me in my old E63 M6 and you in your hairdressers 993 and I guarantee you wouldn't see which way I went, unless the roads got seriously narrow and had some very tight slowlish bends.
Haha! True and I guarantee you wouldn't see which way I went, unless the roads got seriously narrow and had some very tight slowlish bends. my comment was more in the context that until you get used to it, you're always faster in the car you know and can thrash than a car you don't and can't not that being faster matters obviously so long as you're having fun 
Albeit : Go out and buy an M5 and grab it by the scruff of the neck and drive it down your favorite piece of well known road (even without being familiar with the car) and it's annihilate the 993, tactile or not, Bilstein PSS whatever or not, CG geo/set up or not. They're a 500hp super saloon (and if my M6 was anything to go by, the M5 will have one of the most benign, biddable chassis I've ever experienced, all the moreso bearing in mind it's containing 500+ hp) and whilst you have to rev the V10 to make it go, it doesn't suffer any massive torque spikes due to it's lack of turbos, that too helps you to enjoy the chassis even more.
In fact, I know you've said you've a daughter to chauffeur around, but the M6's cabin is a far, far nicer place to be compared to that of the M5, and I'm pretty sure the rear seats would accommodate your daughter (boot's a good size too) ......
My old car (I sold it 20 months ago) is up for sale at Sytner Oldbury :
http://usedcars.sytneroldburybmw.co.uk/showroom/M/...
PM me before you buy it though !
Thanks Slippy, will have a think.
Car I looked at on Sunday would come with a Premium level Autoguard warranty (exact length to be negotiated) - anyone got any experience of this? Is it any good?
Warranty doc here: http://www.autoguardwarranties.com/products/warran...
I'm trying to chase down exactly what the max (and min!) individual claim limit is.
Cost for 12 months is ~£1,200, which is comparable to the cost of the Named Component cover from Mondial with £100 excess, or Comprehensive Cover with £250 excess.
Thoughts?
Car I looked at on Sunday would come with a Premium level Autoguard warranty (exact length to be negotiated) - anyone got any experience of this? Is it any good?
Warranty doc here: http://www.autoguardwarranties.com/products/warran...
I'm trying to chase down exactly what the max (and min!) individual claim limit is.
Cost for 12 months is ~£1,200, which is comparable to the cost of the Named Component cover from Mondial with £100 excess, or Comprehensive Cover with £250 excess.
Thoughts?
Mario149 said:
Oh yeah, one other thing I did notice: auto mode on the gearbox is about as useful as tits on fish How did that ever get signed off?! Maybe they were just trying to ensure you didn't use it and actually drove the car
Hi Mario, long time no see. How did that ever get signed off?! Maybe they were just trying to ensure you didn't use it and actually drove the car Do what I did - get an Alpina B5 Touring.. loads of room for the offspring and can't argue with 516 ft-lb... its a proper Jekyll & Hyde car, very calm when you want it to be and ballistic missile quick when asked to
Mario149 said:
Thanks Slippy, will have a think.
Car I looked at on Sunday would come with a Premium level Autoguard warranty (exact length to be negotiated) - anyone got any experience of this? Is it any good?
Warranty doc here: http://www.autoguardwarranties.com/products/warran...
I'm trying to chase down exactly what the max (and min!) individual claim limit is.
Cost for 12 months is ~£1,200, which is comparable to the cost of the Named Component cover from Mondial with £100 excess, or Comprehensive Cover with £250 excess.
Thoughts?
Check very carefully, I bought a 997C2S with Autoguard 'rock solid' warranty and the engine went pop and I wasn't covered. Luckily for me the dealer took the car back as I had only done 50 miles. Car I looked at on Sunday would come with a Premium level Autoguard warranty (exact length to be negotiated) - anyone got any experience of this? Is it any good?
Warranty doc here: http://www.autoguardwarranties.com/products/warran...
I'm trying to chase down exactly what the max (and min!) individual claim limit is.
Cost for 12 months is ~£1,200, which is comparable to the cost of the Named Component cover from Mondial with £100 excess, or Comprehensive Cover with £250 excess.
Thoughts?
http://www.autoguardwarranties.com/products/warran...
I can't remember exactly as the dealer kindly dealt with them but it was either the wear and tear argument or cylinder block mentioned on page 5 under list of components not covered.
Both of which wouldn't include a clutch/flywheel or throttle actuators on the M5 I would imagine.
I can't remember exactly as the dealer kindly dealt with them but it was either the wear and tear argument or cylinder block mentioned on page 5 under list of components not covered.
Both of which wouldn't include a clutch/flywheel or throttle actuators on the M5 I would imagine.
Mario149 said:
Thanks Slippy, will have a think.
Car I looked at on Sunday would come with a Premium level Autoguard warranty (exact length to be negotiated) - anyone got any experience of this? Is it any good?
Warranty doc here: http://www.autoguardwarranties.com/products/warran...
I'm trying to chase down exactly what the max (and min!) individual claim limit is.
Cost for 12 months is ~£1,200, which is comparable to the cost of the Named Component cover from Mondial with £100 excess, or Comprehensive Cover with £250 excess.
Thoughts?
I have this warranty on my M6. I have a £3k exVAT per claim limit (£1k on audio/Nav). They have proved good so far when the Airbag crash sensor ECU failed and needed to be replaced and the TV tuner module too. Unfortunately the TV tuner was near in £1400 parts alone.Car I looked at on Sunday would come with a Premium level Autoguard warranty (exact length to be negotiated) - anyone got any experience of this? Is it any good?
Warranty doc here: http://www.autoguardwarranties.com/products/warran...
I'm trying to chase down exactly what the max (and min!) individual claim limit is.
Cost for 12 months is ~£1,200, which is comparable to the cost of the Named Component cover from Mondial with £100 excess, or Comprehensive Cover with £250 excess.
Thoughts?
Mario149 said:
Not yet, trying to hammer out a deal. Should know in a day or so.
Test drive was rather fun. Obviously you can only get a smidgen of a taste of what the car is like as I'm not comfortable pushing a car that is a) not mine, and b) completely new to me. We would have been left for dead if my clone has been driving the 993 in front of us given how well I know that car and how tactile it is
Noise is good although not as loud as I was expecting. Then again it's not a dedicated sportscar so that shouldn't really be a surprise. From what I could sample of the V10 it feels a real peach. I was expecting it to drive a bit like my old 550 Maranello but it's a completely different beast. Feels much lighter to position on the road even though it weighs a lot more. Character of the engine feels completely different as well even though displacement/max revs/power are not a million miles apart: 5 litre / 8200rpm / 500bhp plays 5.5 litre / 7700rpm / 485bhp. Think that's probably why the car is so popular actually, it's not "easy" power, if you don't rev it you don't get it, very un-GT like! You can't help noticing that the weight blunts the straight line performance slightly though, if it weighed as much as a 530i it would be proper supercar bonkers!
That gearbox is interesting isn't it! Especially if you're used to Porsche PDK - you don't half know when you're changing gear Suspect that playing with the settings helps a bit and I imagine one develops a technique to smooth is out after a bit of practice.
The gearbox we can label as "character", but what I did find a bit balls is the seat bolster moving thing. I'll caveat this comment by saying that I am very wide and not just because I'm still carrying an extra few kgs from xmas, and that it may have been on "uber" support setting if there is such a thing, but basically it felt like I was being punched in the kidneys every few secs. Not cool. There was plenty of support as is and once we switched it off things were much improved.
Anyway, overall a very interesting car, love the dual personality luxury 5 series cruiser with a mental side Hopefully one will feature in my garage in short order
Hokey cokey, so the deal has been hammered out, all being well deposit goes on the car tomorrow with collection this weekend Test drive was rather fun. Obviously you can only get a smidgen of a taste of what the car is like as I'm not comfortable pushing a car that is a) not mine, and b) completely new to me. We would have been left for dead if my clone has been driving the 993 in front of us given how well I know that car and how tactile it is
Noise is good although not as loud as I was expecting. Then again it's not a dedicated sportscar so that shouldn't really be a surprise. From what I could sample of the V10 it feels a real peach. I was expecting it to drive a bit like my old 550 Maranello but it's a completely different beast. Feels much lighter to position on the road even though it weighs a lot more. Character of the engine feels completely different as well even though displacement/max revs/power are not a million miles apart: 5 litre / 8200rpm / 500bhp plays 5.5 litre / 7700rpm / 485bhp. Think that's probably why the car is so popular actually, it's not "easy" power, if you don't rev it you don't get it, very un-GT like! You can't help noticing that the weight blunts the straight line performance slightly though, if it weighed as much as a 530i it would be proper supercar bonkers!
That gearbox is interesting isn't it! Especially if you're used to Porsche PDK - you don't half know when you're changing gear
Suspect that playing with the settings helps a bit and I imagine one develops a technique to smooth is out after a bit of practice. The gearbox we can label as "character", but what I did find a bit balls is the seat bolster moving thing. I'll caveat this comment by saying that I am very wide and not just because I'm still carrying an extra few kgs from xmas, and that it may have been on "uber" support setting if there is such a thing, but basically it felt like I was being punched in the kidneys every few secs. Not cool. There was plenty of support as is and once we switched it off things were much improved.
Anyway, overall a very interesting car, love the dual personality luxury 5 series cruiser with a mental side
Hopefully one will feature in my garage in short order I did have a think about M6s/Alpinas etc but somehow they just don't seem as cool as an M5. And since I've always lusted after M3s and M5s since I was little I decided to stick with the original plan.Slight change of plan: after much soul searching I decided that I couldn't part with the 993 as she means too much to me and my other half. But in an epic feat of man maths I decided that I would still get the M5
Problem was that when I had got the 993 all tarted up to take along for the p/x valuation, I kinda fell in love all over again, and the drive over and back through great country roads sealed it! Dealer loved driving it when we went out for him to check it over and was genuinely disappointed when I told him I was keeping her today, even asked for first refusal if I ever do decide to sell her. Not bad for a 130K mile girl with some cosmetic work needed! Nice to have my efforts at keeping her in top notch mechanical condition appreciated Anyway, bring on the V10 to park next to her
Mario149 said:
Hokey cokey, so the deal has been hammered out. I did have a think about M6s/Alpinas etc but somehow they just don't seem as cool as an M5.
Anyway, bring on the V10 to park next to her
Congratulations, you'll love it ! ! (but probably not the fuel consumption) Let's see how long the 993 lasts ...Anyway, bring on the V10 to park next to her
But Alpinas and M6 not cool ... ???
Should've gone to Specsavers
Slippydiff said:
Congratulations, you'll love it ! ! (but probably not the fuel consumption) Let's see how long the 993 lasts ...
But Alpinas and M6 not cool ... ???
Should've gone to Specsavers
Haha! It's not a looks thing, I actually quite like the M6, the more bonkers the better. I just like the "stealth barge" aspect of the M5. Even with the badge on most people will be none the wiser about it.But Alpinas and M6 not cool ... ???
Should've gone to Specsavers
Deposit paid! It's def happening, whoop whoop!
On the practical side, I've heard that iDrive is heinously complicated and there's eleventy billion things to play with. What recommendations do people have ref which settings to adjust to my preference first in term for maximum usefulness/enjoyment?
On the practical side, I've heard that iDrive is heinously complicated and there's eleventy billion things to play with. What recommendations do people have ref which settings to adjust to my preference first in term for maximum usefulness/enjoyment?
Mario149 said:
On the practical side, I've heard that iDrive is heinously complicated and there's eleventy billion things to play with. What recommendations do people have ref which settings to adjust to my preference first in term for maximum usefulness/enjoyment?
Maybe back in 2005 when smartphones weren't around and the reviewers weren't really used to that kind of thing... shouldn't be a problem for most people now.For regular driving I would recommend gearbox in S5 manual mode, power mode on (500bhp rather than 400), EDC normal (i.e. middle setting, one light illuminated), DSC on.
On M mode I have gearbox = S6, power = P500S, EDC = Sport, DSC = off, so the full experience
You might want to start off with S5, DSC = MDM though (can't select S6 unless DSC is off).Other settings... hmmm I like the triple turn signal on and the heat seating set to back rather than bum
I would echo above although if you're not used to rwd tread carefully with traction control on at the start!
I genuinely miss mine, not sure if I have rose tinted spectacles on but my new one is flat in comparison. Far quicker and far more torque for sure but it's no V10. Not unlike F1 I suppose.
I also had mine remapped by DMS which made it more ballistic not sure if worth the money though. I also tried a Remus and Eissenman exhaust (sp) and ended up reverting to stock as both took away the induction noise which to me is one of the best features. Not a million miles from the CSL I foolishly sold for 25k before the prices justifiably went through the roof.
I'm sure you've seen it but Tiff Needels original Top Gear review is worth a watch.
A definite marmite car.
I genuinely miss mine, not sure if I have rose tinted spectacles on but my new one is flat in comparison. Far quicker and far more torque for sure but it's no V10. Not unlike F1 I suppose.
I also had mine remapped by DMS which made it more ballistic not sure if worth the money though. I also tried a Remus and Eissenman exhaust (sp) and ended up reverting to stock as both took away the induction noise which to me is one of the best features. Not a million miles from the CSL I foolishly sold for 25k before the prices justifiably went through the roof.
I'm sure you've seen it but Tiff Needels original Top Gear review is worth a watch.
A definite marmite car.
Edited by joscal on Thursday 12th May 07:55
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