BMW M140i Vs. VW Golf R - Any Experience?

BMW M140i Vs. VW Golf R - Any Experience?

Author
Discussion

M3Driver

Original Poster:

171 posts

163 months

Wednesday 11th May 2016
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I'm coming to the end of the term on my PCP deal on my M135i at the moment, and I'm starting to think about a suitable replacement.

One option is the newer version of my car, which will be badged an M140i and have a B58 engine instead of an N55.

However after reading all the rave magazine reviews that praise the Golf R as being a "near perfect hot hatch", I thought I should at least give it some consideration.

Has anyone here owned one, either before or after changing over to a BMW/M-car? If so, do you have any opinions on the difference between the two, and which one is better?

I will schedule a test drive over a weekend I think, but it would be nice to hear some views on here.

RS Grant

1,416 posts

232 months

Wednesday 11th May 2016
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Had an E46 M3, which I thought was great... went to a 335i(N55), which I hated... now have a Golf R, which I think is great.

Is the Golf better than the M3? Hmmm, different.. it's probably more useable on the road given the increased midrange torque, equally as quick at the top end with a couple of small modifications. Handling is better than the M3 on a Scottish B-road... sound isn't as good as the M3 though, which is to be expected I suppose.


Cheers,
Grant

M3Driver

Original Poster:

171 posts

163 months

Wednesday 11th May 2016
quotequote all
I had an E46 M3 before my M135i, which I loved. It had a "special" feeling to it that the M135i just can't match.

What did you dislike about your N55 335i?

Interesting to hear that you feel the Golf R handles better than the M3. I wouldn't say my M135i handles better than the M3. It doesn't inspire quite the same confidence, but I can probably drive it faster than the M3 if that makes sense, it just isn't quite as enjoyable.

What tuning options are available for the Golf R, and what power can I expect from a remap, and who is the best person to go to? My M135i is mapped to 380bhp, so it'll be a tough car to beat.

M3Driver

Original Poster:

171 posts

163 months

Wednesday 11th May 2016
quotequote all
Grant - I believe you've also mentioned on here that you drive an F80 M3 regularly also. I've test driven the M3 and M4 a couple of times and didn't really get on with them. I really disliked the exhaust / engine note, and the fact that the traction control is so sensitive and you simply can't use the power it has because the back wheels have so little grip, even if you drive it in MDM.

I would consider an M3 Competition Package if I could get a decent deal on one, as apparently the sports exhaust and re-tuned DSC have improved things a lot.

It would be interesting to hear your views on M140i Vs. Golf R Vs. M3 Comp Pack...?

RS Grant

1,416 posts

232 months

Wednesday 11th May 2016
quotequote all
M3Driver said:
I had an E46 M3 before my M135i, which I loved. It had a "special" feeling to it that the M135i just can't match.

What did you dislike about your N55 335i?

Interesting to hear that you feel the Golf R handles better than the M3. I wouldn't say my M135i handles better than the M3. It doesn't inspire quite the same confidence, but I can probably drive it faster than the M3 if that makes sense, it just isn't quite as enjoyable.

What tuning options are available for the Golf R, and what power can I expect from a remap, and who is the best person to go to? My M135i is mapped to 380bhp, so it'll be a tough car to beat.
Yep, the M3 had a special feeling and every drive was more of an event than in the Golf R too.. but then I put that down to the characterful engine and fact you had to concentrate on inputs to ensure you weren't sliding around like a loon, so more of a driving experience.

I disliked the poor build quality, aftersales service of 'specialist' that I purchased from, engine niggles which caused limp home mode numerous times and above all else, the steptronic automatic gearbox was unbelievably poor... that was a really terrible, terrible car buying decision of mine.

I test drove an M135i and the reason I never took the plunge was a combination between the looks (pre-facelift was too goggle eye'd for me) as well as the feeling that the car really lacked a locking differential and the suspension got unsettled when pushed.. the engine was a peach and although I was put right off automatic gearboxes after the 335i, the DCT transmission was fantastic.

Tuning the Golf R yields similar results, a basic stage one remap will give c370bhp... if you go for a stage two upgrade (add in a free-flowing downpipe, intake and intercooler) then you should see just over 400bhp and 400lbft going by the figures I've seen on the owners club. There's a lad running a stage two car (with DSG) who does 1/4 mile sprint in 11.9ish, which is pretty ballistic... the maps available are Revo, MRC, APR and the lad who runs 11-second quarters has had his car custom mapped by Rick @ Unicorn, which is who I would use.


M3Driver said:
Grant - I believe you've also mentioned on here that you drive an F80 M3 regularly also. I've test driven the M3 and M4 a couple of times and didn't really get on with them. I really disliked the exhaust / engine note, and the fact that the traction control is so sensitive and you simply can't use the power it has because the back wheels have so little grip, even if you drive it in MDM.

I would consider an M3 Competition Package if I could get a decent deal on one, as apparently the sports exhaust and re-tuned DSC have improved things a lot.

It would be interesting to hear your views on M140i Vs. Golf R Vs. M3 Comp Pack...?
The engine note on the F80 is absolutely ridiculous on cold start, it sounds like someone has actually stolen your backbox... certainly not something you expect to hear on a 'prestige' performance car and I don't think it suits it at all. Yet to hear a M-Performance exhaust to comment, so not sure to what degree, if any, it has improved it.

I've read a lot about how touchy and snappy the handling people are finding the M3/M4, but if I'm honest, I don't find it anything like that.. cold/wet/dry/warm.. I find it grippy and easy to make progress. Worth mentioning that our car is an LCI model which is meant to address the handling/grip problems in the early models, IIRC it has the Comp Pack dampers? Sure I read that on here somewhere? Regardless of that, whatever changes they've made to the suspension have worked.
Ours also has a manual gearbox so you can alter which gear you are in, how ferocious the gearchanges are and throttle inputs really easily without any computer input. I found that driving the DCT M4 demonstrator in Sport+ could be a bit hairy, give it a bootful and it would drop to the lowest gear possible and gearchanges were properly ferocious, which I could see would unsettle the car on anything but warm/dry tarmac or if you weren't ready for it.

The M3 is undoubtedly faster in a straight line than the Golf, over the same B-road I think the Golf would be the quicker (certainly a safer/less frantic!) car.. on a more open B-road or A-road then the M3 would be the quicker car though. The build quality is much of a muchness, the Golf perhaps slightly better in fact.

I'd like an extended drive of the M3/M4 Comp Pack to see what difference the wee tweaks have made though, on the face of it (apart from the wheels) it looks to be a decent upgrade and worth the money.


Cheers,
Grant

FocusRS3

3,411 posts

90 months

Friday 28th October 2016
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M3Driver said:
Grant - I believe you've also mentioned on here that you drive an F80 M3 regularly also. I've test driven the M3 and M4 a couple of times and didn't really get on with them. I really disliked the exhaust / engine note, and the fact that the traction control is so sensitive and you simply can't use the power it has because the back wheels have so little grip, even if you drive it in MDM.

I would consider an M3 Competition Package if I could get a decent deal on one, as apparently the sports exhaust and re-tuned DSC have improved things a lot.

It would be interesting to hear your views on M140i Vs. Golf R Vs. M3 Comp Pack...?
Hi interesting thread this.

Did you make a decision on new car on the end ?

Regards

Krisj88

25 posts

110 months

Saturday 29th October 2016
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I'm coming to the end of a 2 yr lease on a 3dr manual golf r. It's been a brilliant car to live with. But, the noise isn't great. Handling is a bit understeery with the traction control on but, when all the systems are off its very playful. It's a great car to thrash around on country lanes. The manual box is a must for me as the DSG fart is so annoying. Interior is pretty decent. Typical golf. Seats are very comfy. Basic sound system isn't great. If I had my choice again I'd have the 19" Pretoria wheels over the 18" Cadiz. I'd of gone for a more toned down colour too. The lapis blue I've got is lovely but I wish I'd have gone for black or limestone grey. It is very much a front wheel biased car. 7k on a set of front tyres only and the rears are still well within the limit. Very easy to live with and relatively cheap to run considering the performance. Fuel consumption for me is around 250 miles to a full tank max. My replacement lease car is a M140i 5dr manual in white. A 6 cylinder turbo motor in a hot hatch will soon be a thing of the past and they sound awesome

FocusRS3

3,411 posts

90 months

Saturday 29th October 2016
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Many Tks for the feedback .

The three cars I'm currently considering are the golf , the 140 and the a45 Amg .

The Amg I like , interior is lovely , the performance is pretty astounding but it's not without fault .
Seems like gearbox issues are commonplace and service costs are double that of the other two . The other issue having priced up the car is the not so small purchase price difference around 13k .

The golf I think you've covered and at around mid 20's for a decent used example it can't yet be discounted . I drove the DSG and surprisingly having never owned a DCT car I liked it. It was very responsive, easy to use and you just know being a VW it'll be bulletproof .
My only issue with the golf is that's it's maybe a tad boring, especially the interior, and a used car isn't a bargain compared to the 140 for similar cash .

I have actually only driven the 135 not the 140 but it was a 2016 car and I gather the only real difference is a small increase in HP and the auto box will happily allow for multiple downshifts now although the 135 auto box has been praised regardless .
I priced up all I wanted through Coast to Coast cars and the car comes out at just over 27.5k.
Chuck on the 5yr service pack and I'm all in for just over 28, bit of a bargain compared to the other two possibly .

The other two cars I think will be lots quicker point to point on B roads but less engaging is my take on things.
The BMW is looking the sensible choice for me and the family but then again when has being sensible ever come into buying cars if you enjoy driving .

Have you test driven the 140?

Krisj88

25 posts

110 months

Saturday 29th October 2016
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Lease!! I've got a M140i deal for less then £80 a week inc Vat. The golf r is cheaper still. Central U.K. Vehicle leasing is the cheapest overall when you account for all the costs. And best customer service I've found. Keep an eye on the deals they run. A mate has a CLA AMG costs a small fortune to service whereas the golf cost me £140. Cheap considering. Interior needs some style but it works faultlessly and easily. All 3 are great cars. But I can guarantee the BMW and the golfs interior are better quality than the AMG. Maybe not as nice to look at but, the merc is a bit flimsy and not very well made in many places. Such as around the clocks and centre console. My mates clock surround keeps unclipping from the fascia and the the buttons in the centre console can be pushed through the back

Goater2

40 posts

94 months

Saturday 29th October 2016
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I have an m135 and my wife has an R. Both super cars, love the engine in the beemer but the R is incredible ply capable. Would be happy with either.

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Saturday 29th October 2016
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Krisj88 said:
Lease!! I've got a M140i deal for less then £80 a week inc Vat. The golf r is cheaper still. Central U.K. Vehicle leasing is the cheapest overall when you account for all the costs. And best customer service I've found. Keep an eye on the deals they run. A mate has a CLA AMG costs a small fortune to service whereas the golf cost me £140. Cheap considering. Interior needs some style but it works faultlessly and easily. All 3 are great cars. But I can guarantee the BMW and the golfs interior are better quality than the AMG. Maybe not as nice to look at but, the merc is a bit flimsy and not very well made in many places. Such as around the clocks and centre console. My mates clock surround keeps unclipping from the fascia and the the buttons in the centre console can be pushed through the back
£347pcm - what downpayment miles restriction

FocusRS3

3,411 posts

90 months

Saturday 29th October 2016
quotequote all
Krisj88 said:
Lease!! I've got a M140i deal for less then £80 a week inc Vat. The golf r is cheaper still. Central U.K. Vehicle leasing is the cheapest overall when you account for all the costs. And best customer service I've found. Keep an eye on the deals they run. A mate has a CLA AMG costs a small fortune to service whereas the golf cost me £140. Cheap considering. Interior needs some style but it works faultlessly and easily. All 3 are great cars. But I can guarantee the BMW and the golfs interior are better quality than the AMG. Maybe not as nice to look at but, the merc is a bit flimsy and not very well made in many places. Such as around the clocks and centre console. My mates clock surround keeps unclipping from the fascia and the the buttons in the centre console can be pushed through the back
Tks for reply and feedback .
You're right the Amg looks the nuts but , and i can't understand why, the build quality is crap.
Service costs are an issue which makes the Amg purchase an even worse purchase .

Think ideal combo is 140 and golf R

FocusRS3

3,411 posts

90 months

Saturday 29th October 2016
quotequote all
Goater2 said:
I have an m135 and my wife has an R. Both super cars, love the engine in the beemer but the R is incredible ply capable. Would be happy with either.
Great combo mate will potentially do the same v shortly

DUMBO100

1,878 posts

183 months

Saturday 29th October 2016
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I've never driven a 135 but have done 20,000 miles in my R and it really is as good as the reviews, I even now like 4wd. I have been looking for my next car too and am really struggling to find anything as good. I might get another one

FocusRS3

3,411 posts

90 months

Sunday 30th October 2016
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DUMBO100 said:
I've never driven a 135 but have done 20,000 miles in my R and it really is as good as the reviews, I even now like 4wd. I have been looking for my next car too and am really struggling to find anything as good. I might get another one
Good recomendation mate . Plan maybe 140 plus the Golf R so both 4WD and RWD combos .
Have to say enormously great cars both from my test drives and the online reviews.

I think if there was only one car and I ended to with either the reality is I'd be enthralled with either.
Love the way the hot hatch mkt is so competitive now with great cars

jontykint

789 posts

128 months

Sunday 30th October 2016
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DUMBO100 said:
20,000 miles in my R and it really is as good as the reviews, I even now like 4wd.
I am going to take a guess on how many miles of those 20,000 were driven in 4 wheel drive...

12


DUMBO100

1,878 posts

183 months

Sunday 30th October 2016
quotequote all
[quote=jontykint]
I am going to take a guess on how many miles of those 20,000 were driven in 4 wheel drive...

12

I'd be concerned of any miles were done in 4wd mate, it's not a tractor

jontykint

789 posts

128 months

Sunday 30th October 2016
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Sorry I don't follow. I must be pissed!

Anyhoo... recently I have had a vr6 corrado, manual golf r, and current a 1m coupe.

I can't really compare the 1m to the m135, as it is a completely different experience, but I do know that the golf r was a great car, it did everything I wanted in any weather on any road, yes. But where's the fun in that?
The engine is good but not a patch on the BMW I6 or the VR6. It sounds pants too. The cd quality exhaust note has got to be one of the worst ideas in the history of PH cars.
The VR6 handled how you wanted it it handle, same with the 1m.
I would take a sorted corrado VR6 over a golf r any day.
For me and I reckon many PH dwellers would be buying cars on engine and handling with a bonus if it looks looks the tits.
Golf r has 1 out of the 3 personally.


FocusRS3

3,411 posts

90 months

Sunday 30th October 2016
quotequote all
jontykint said:
Sorry I don't follow. I must be pissed!

Anyhoo... recently I have had a vr6 corrado, manual golf r, and current a 1m coupe.

I can't really compare the 1m to the m135, as it is a completely different experience, but I do know that the golf r was a great car, it did everything I wanted in any weather on any road, yes. But where's the fun in that?
The engine is good but not a patch on the BMW I6 or the VR6. It sounds pants too. The cd quality exhaust note has got to be one of the worst ideas in the history of PH cars.
The VR6 handled how you wanted it it handle, same with the 1m.
I would take a sorted corrado VR6 over a golf r any day.
For me and I reckon many PH dwellers would be buying cars on engine and handling with a bonus if it looks looks the tits.
Golf r has 1 out of the 3 personally.
I liked the drive on the golf R but the interior lacks the finish and niceties of the BMW no question.

Engine note i agree was very muted and if you like engine sound the beamer wins that one hands down too

QuattroDave

1,461 posts

127 months

Monday 31st October 2016
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FocusRS3 said:
Many Tks for the feedback .

The three cars I'm currently considering are the golf , the 140 and the a45 Amg .

The Amg I like , interior is lovely , the performance is pretty astounding but it's not without fault .
Seems like gearbox issues are commonplace and service costs are double that of the other two . The other issue having priced up the car is the not so small purchase price difference around 13k .

The golf I think you've covered and at around mid 20's for a decent used example it can't yet be discounted . I drove the DSG and surprisingly having never owned a DCT car I liked it. It was very responsive, easy to use and you just know being a VW it'll be bulletproof .
My only issue with the golf is that's it's maybe a tad boring, especially the interior, and a used car isn't a bargain compared to the 140 for similar cash .

I have actually only driven the 135 not the 140 but it was a 2016 car and I gather the only real difference is a small increase in HP and the auto box will happily allow for multiple downshifts now although the 135 auto box has been praised regardless .
I priced up all I wanted through Coast to Coast cars and the car comes out at just over 27.5k.
Chuck on the 5yr service pack and I'm all in for just over 28, bit of a bargain compared to the other two possibly .

The other two cars I think will be lots quicker point to point on B roads but less engaging is my take on things.
The BMW is looking the sensible choice for me and the family but then again when has being sensible ever come into buying cars if you enjoy driving .

Have you test driven the 140?
I test drove an A45, really didn't get on with the power delivery, far more turbo lag than I'd expect from a modern day car (not far off my ur quattro for nothing nothing nothing EVERYTHING!). Also really disappointed with the build quality, the two year old one i had a test drive in rattled like crazy in the cabin, loose B pillar trim - apparantly a known issue. Wasn't impressed with the engine sound either.

Focus RS - drove nice, interior functional, looked good but didn't feel "special" enough to me - not that it isn't a special car i just didn't gel with it, plus I couldn't wait 1 year as i needed to move on from my A8.

Audi S3 - I've done Audi's to death and with the exception of my urquattro have all been dull to drive, zero engagement and all look very similar to each other.

Golf R - Just couldn't bring myself to ever buy a golf, never had one, never will. Consider them to be too dull to look at and sit in. It may well be the best drive in its class but I'll still never own one Plus - one exhaust per cylinder is just silly!

Test drove an M235 and immediately loved the engine and its sound. I gelled with the interior too. Loved the auto box and the power delivery. ultimately I opted for the M140 which I took delivery of 650 miles ago.

Then there's the price, as I would have specced them:

A45 - £45k (approx £42k after discounts)
Focus - £35k (£35k after discount!)
Audi S3 - £38k (approx £34k after discounts)
M140 - £37k (£29k after discounts)

Finally (more for curious interest than a deciding factor for most!) on the test drives I noted the following mpg:

A45 - 22mpg
Focus - 22mpg
M140 - 28mpg (averaged 32.4 over my first 650 miles)

Hope the above helps