Discussion
So... After a couple of years with my Z4 I have slightly itchy feet - coupled with the fact that I'm running an E61 530i Touring alongside it makes me think I should consolidate the Z4M and the 5er into one car. I have a 2014 110 defender for load lugging and an allroad for family duties. So - thoughts on going from the Z4M to a (manual of course) E92 M3? I know that it's supposed to be torque light but I'm looking for a fast, powerful GT with real grunt when needed that can soak up motorway likes and B road blats. Also - the Z is a little jittery on B roads due to short wheelbase so am hoping M3 might be better. One of my worries of course is that the Z isn't really depreciating but the (approved used, low mileage) M3 may plummet to next to worthless within 5 years or so... But I know that so any real world experience of the M3 would be great. I'm not looking for a track day special...
I swapped a Z4M Roadster and a E61 520d Touring for a manual E92 M3 hoping it would be a do it all one car but I regretted it big style and wished I'd stuck with what I had.
The M3 will feel ordinary very quickly because it's basically just a 3 series with a nice engine and there isn't anything interior wise to set it apart from the rest of the range and it just doesn't feel very special.
It's not an easy car to get the best from either because all the fun is at 6k revs plus and it's torque to weight ratio isn't very sparkling either and you know you are carrying 1650kg around with you as well.
Plus points though are it has an excellent chassis and the faster you go the better the car feels and it has the best induction noise of any car I've had.
It also needs the exhaust either swapping/modding because in standard guise it's very underwhelming for a V8, it's a far more composed machine compared to the Z4M though and it's ride and handling are impressive.
The M3 will feel ordinary very quickly because it's basically just a 3 series with a nice engine and there isn't anything interior wise to set it apart from the rest of the range and it just doesn't feel very special.
It's not an easy car to get the best from either because all the fun is at 6k revs plus and it's torque to weight ratio isn't very sparkling either and you know you are carrying 1650kg around with you as well.
Plus points though are it has an excellent chassis and the faster you go the better the car feels and it has the best induction noise of any car I've had.
It also needs the exhaust either swapping/modding because in standard guise it's very underwhelming for a V8, it's a far more composed machine compared to the Z4M though and it's ride and handling are impressive.
For me, depreciation risk aside, of those two it would be the e92 M3.
The engine in the Z4M is legendary, but I much prefer it in e46 guise (hence my current garage - LR 90 and e46 M3CS).
Very much a personal taste thing, but having owned a manual and a DCT'd e92, I think the DCT box better suits the engine. Try both and see which you prefer.
My Z4M was a coupe. Every drive in it felt like an occasion. Great engine, sitting back over the rear wheels with that long bonnet stretching out ahead... but I found the build quality disappointing and the ride a bit unresolved - including that fidgity sensation you refer to. Some people love that edgier ride quality, but for me it detracted from the car. The e92 feels better screwed together, rides better and feels better resolved as a package. It doesn't have quite the same sense of occasion but it inspired much greater confidence (for me, at least) when pushing on.
It's wierd. I look back on the Z4M with fondness, but I wouldn't have another. But I'd buy another e92 m3 without hesitation.
It's all just a personal taste thing really. Try one and see what you think.
The engine in the Z4M is legendary, but I much prefer it in e46 guise (hence my current garage - LR 90 and e46 M3CS).
Very much a personal taste thing, but having owned a manual and a DCT'd e92, I think the DCT box better suits the engine. Try both and see which you prefer.
My Z4M was a coupe. Every drive in it felt like an occasion. Great engine, sitting back over the rear wheels with that long bonnet stretching out ahead... but I found the build quality disappointing and the ride a bit unresolved - including that fidgity sensation you refer to. Some people love that edgier ride quality, but for me it detracted from the car. The e92 feels better screwed together, rides better and feels better resolved as a package. It doesn't have quite the same sense of occasion but it inspired much greater confidence (for me, at least) when pushing on.
It's wierd. I look back on the Z4M with fondness, but I wouldn't have another. But I'd buy another e92 m3 without hesitation.
It's all just a personal taste thing really. Try one and see what you think.
Edited by Gruber on Thursday 19th May 20:13
I had an e90 manual and found it only came alive at 9/10ths. Day to day it felt very inert although underneath is a very capable chassis. I ended trading in for a Mini Cooper s which I actually found more enjoyable, following which I moved to a C63 amg which was epic. Whilst I had my m3 a friend had a dct coupe and I think dct suits the engine better than manual.
Some very balanced and fair replies above, in my opinion.
I have a manual E90, 7 years old now from new. I came from an E46. The E90 is a real grower but certainly didn't shout 'buy me' on the test drive in the same way as the E46 did. But it truly is a jack of all trades, and IMO would give you the better ride and better motorway proposition that you're looking for. It does feel its weight, and I think you have to be precise, deliberate and patient with it through the corners - but it's a properly special thing and the engine is epic at the top end (with more midrange grunt than the S54 engine too, IMO).
Certainly it makes a good contrast car if/when you can also keep something lighter, smaller and sportier alongside it. I have a 10 year old Cayman S keeping it company.
In short, I'd have a good look at an E92 if you've tired of the Z4M, but do go into it with your eyes open regarding size/weight, engine noise and steering feel. It's a bigger, heavier, more luxurious car and doesn't pretend otherwise.
I have a manual E90, 7 years old now from new. I came from an E46. The E90 is a real grower but certainly didn't shout 'buy me' on the test drive in the same way as the E46 did. But it truly is a jack of all trades, and IMO would give you the better ride and better motorway proposition that you're looking for. It does feel its weight, and I think you have to be precise, deliberate and patient with it through the corners - but it's a properly special thing and the engine is epic at the top end (with more midrange grunt than the S54 engine too, IMO).
Certainly it makes a good contrast car if/when you can also keep something lighter, smaller and sportier alongside it. I have a 10 year old Cayman S keeping it company.
In short, I'd have a good look at an E92 if you've tired of the Z4M, but do go into it with your eyes open regarding size/weight, engine noise and steering feel. It's a bigger, heavier, more luxurious car and doesn't pretend otherwise.
Agree with Gruber's comment above to an extent, made the move over 3 yrs ago and still have the M3, I'd have another M3 but not another Zed.
M3's don't tend to shout buy me on test drives they are growers, the Z4m is the other way around and needs a fair bit of tweaking to make it right. Other than a little bit of weight loss all the M3 really needs is a bit more noise inside the cabin which you can easily achieve going down the OEM route. I'd recommend a Competition car if you can stretch to one.
M3's don't tend to shout buy me on test drives they are growers, the Z4m is the other way around and needs a fair bit of tweaking to make it right. Other than a little bit of weight loss all the M3 really needs is a bit more noise inside the cabin which you can easily achieve going down the OEM route. I'd recommend a Competition car if you can stretch to one.
It takes time to understand an E9x. I'm 4 years into ownership and it's been a continual learning process.
The engine is much better suited to DCT. Just don't expect it to be a rocket ship (in relative terms) up to 5K rpm unless you're playing with the gears. I never get bored of the sprint from 5K to 8K rpm though.
And then, like this morning when I had to take my son to Hospital in Edinburgh, it's a composed cruiser returning 26 mpg on a 50 mile motorway run.
If you're worried about depreciation buy the E90. Prices are holding and considering it's relative rarity in the UK (only circa 250 LCI's sold) likely to continue to do so.
Just a shame they didn't make a Touring.
The engine is much better suited to DCT. Just don't expect it to be a rocket ship (in relative terms) up to 5K rpm unless you're playing with the gears. I never get bored of the sprint from 5K to 8K rpm though.
And then, like this morning when I had to take my son to Hospital in Edinburgh, it's a composed cruiser returning 26 mpg on a 50 mile motorway run.
If you're worried about depreciation buy the E90. Prices are holding and considering it's relative rarity in the UK (only circa 250 LCI's sold) likely to continue to do so.
Just a shame they didn't make a Touring.
Stunters said:
Some very balanced and fair replies above, in my opinion.
I have a manual E90, 7 years old now from new. I came from an E46. The E90 is a real grower but certainly didn't shout 'buy me' on the test drive in the same way as the E46 did. But it truly is a jack of all trades, and IMO would give you the better ride and better motorway proposition that you're looking for. It does feel its weight, and I think you have to be precise, deliberate and patient with it through the corners - but it's a properly special thing and the engine is epic at the top end (with more midrange grunt than the S54 engine too, IMO).
Certainly it makes a good contrast car if/when you can also keep something lighter, smaller and sportier alongside it. I have a 10 year old Cayman S keeping it company.
In short, I'd have a good look at an E92 if you've tired of the Z4M, but do go into it with your eyes open regarding size/weight, engine noise and steering feel. It's a bigger, heavier, more luxurious car and doesn't pretend otherwise.
I have (1week ago) gone from an SMG E46 to a DCT E92 with EDC and whilst early days the E92 is leaps and bounds ahead in my view, build quality, tech, ICE, comfort, pace, the whole package. I actually think it does feel a lot quicker than the E46 (and I ride a sports bike as well so I do know what fast feels like) and again in my view it sounds nicer (I do have the MPE exhaust) and as others have stated its a real Jekyll and Hyde, docile when required but a beast with a press of a button and foot, as you can probably tell I'm loving it I have a manual E90, 7 years old now from new. I came from an E46. The E90 is a real grower but certainly didn't shout 'buy me' on the test drive in the same way as the E46 did. But it truly is a jack of all trades, and IMO would give you the better ride and better motorway proposition that you're looking for. It does feel its weight, and I think you have to be precise, deliberate and patient with it through the corners - but it's a properly special thing and the engine is epic at the top end (with more midrange grunt than the S54 engine too, IMO).
Certainly it makes a good contrast car if/when you can also keep something lighter, smaller and sportier alongside it. I have a 10 year old Cayman S keeping it company.
In short, I'd have a good look at an E92 if you've tired of the Z4M, but do go into it with your eyes open regarding size/weight, engine noise and steering feel. It's a bigger, heavier, more luxurious car and doesn't pretend otherwise.
I cannot comment on the Z4M though I hear it has a lot of character and of course it has al fresco motoring which I need a fix of every once in a while (different car for that)
I do have an E92 M3 for family-lugging duties and my 2 cents:
1) True the interior is not so special compared to the non M but then again it's already a very nice interior and has all the goodies you might need.
2) True in the lower rev range it doesn't have that much grunt certainly compared to the turbo'ed F80 but it's not as bad as some say. It's more than enough for everyday traffic and isn't the point of a sports car to look up the higher rev range for more power and more noise? This one goes to 8400 rpm, nearly unheard of in a V8.
3) The standard noise isn't that great but a slight tweak (after market system or muffler remove) make it awesome. Many people have commented mine is one of the best sounding cars they have heard.
4) It can do the cruising thing well but it's thirsty (personally I've never seen 26mpg on any trip even one on a rainy highway with kids in the back).
5) Maintenance/tyres are expensive. But then again you must know that from running a Z4M. A 335d / 335i deliver 85% of the capacity at 50% of the runing cost.
BUT
6-14) V8.
In conclusion: For me it's everything to be enjoyed in a sports car: high revving N/A V8, manual gearbox (mine is), drop dead gorgeous lines (IMHO), superb handling (once you dare to push it, it feels much more agile than it's weight suggests). We will not see such cars again in the modern age so enjoy I say. But it also has comfortable back seats, a big boot, lots of toys and can happily sit at 70MPH if you can resist the urge to gun it. The E46 is more the purist driver's car but for me this is the perfect jack of all trades and a very worthy ///M car.
I do have an E92 M3 for family-lugging duties and my 2 cents:
1) True the interior is not so special compared to the non M but then again it's already a very nice interior and has all the goodies you might need.
2) True in the lower rev range it doesn't have that much grunt certainly compared to the turbo'ed F80 but it's not as bad as some say. It's more than enough for everyday traffic and isn't the point of a sports car to look up the higher rev range for more power and more noise? This one goes to 8400 rpm, nearly unheard of in a V8.
3) The standard noise isn't that great but a slight tweak (after market system or muffler remove) make it awesome. Many people have commented mine is one of the best sounding cars they have heard.
4) It can do the cruising thing well but it's thirsty (personally I've never seen 26mpg on any trip even one on a rainy highway with kids in the back).
5) Maintenance/tyres are expensive. But then again you must know that from running a Z4M. A 335d / 335i deliver 85% of the capacity at 50% of the runing cost.
BUT
6-14) V8.
In conclusion: For me it's everything to be enjoyed in a sports car: high revving N/A V8, manual gearbox (mine is), drop dead gorgeous lines (IMHO), superb handling (once you dare to push it, it feels much more agile than it's weight suggests). We will not see such cars again in the modern age so enjoy I say. But it also has comfortable back seats, a big boot, lots of toys and can happily sit at 70MPH if you can resist the urge to gun it. The E46 is more the purist driver's car but for me this is the perfect jack of all trades and a very worthy ///M car.
Edited by outspan on Sunday 22 May 07:58
PH XKR said:
so instead of a slightly lacklustre M you bought a non-M with an M badge?
Yup. I'm keeping the 'real' M too - the Z4M - although that's probably a little lacklustre for you and doesn't count as a 'real' M - but hey, I'm probably not a driving God like you and this can only handle a badged up lacklustre hatch for all the day to day commuting...Billy_Whizzzz said:
Many thanks all. Much as I've been tempted by the M3 I've put down a deposit today for a new M140i - Estoril Blue manual 3 door, and will be keeping the Z4M as well.
The M-lite will be fine for commuting as it's a very easy car to live with, but aside from the engine note, it's not much more fun than a 335d. What it will do is remind you just how good the Z4M is.Edited by Billy_Whizzzz on Tuesday 24th May 05:08
Billy_Whizzzz said:
Many thanks all. Much as I've been tempted by the M3 I've put down a deposit today for a new M140i - Estoril Blue manual 3 door, and will be keeping the Z4M as well.
Nice one and pleased to hear the Zed is staying, a manual M140i is right up my street and that will make an awesome daily/commuter for sure. Edited by Billy_Whizzzz on Tuesday 24th May 05:08
Let us know when you get it.
Billy_Whizzzz said:
Many thanks all. Much as I've been tempted by the M3 I've put down a deposit today for a new M140i - Estoril Blue manual 3 door, and will be keeping the Z4M as well.
Nice.. can i ask what kind of deal/discount you got? I'm looking to order one of these in the next couple of months. In a very similar spec too!Edited by Billy_Whizzzz on Tuesday 24th May 05:08
ashley95 said:
Billy_Whizzzz said:
Many thanks all. Much as I've been tempted by the M3 I've put down a deposit today for a new M140i - Estoril Blue manual 3 door, and will be keeping the Z4M as well.
Nice.. can i ask what kind of deal/discount you got? I'm looking to order one of these in the next couple of months. In a very similar spec too!Edited by Billy_Whizzzz on Tuesday 24th May 05:08
Gassing Station | M Power | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff