Z4M / E46 M3 - Are they just not that fast?
Discussion
johnwilliams77 said:
Just depends on the quantity of chemicals in which the chavs sells
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5P6kYLr5H9o
That's made my morning https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5P6kYLr5H9o
Tuvra said:
Actually, I think M3's are far more appealing to chavs now. I think the "German whip" image and the fact "Its an M3 bruh, SMG inni", even chavs don't think the Impreza's are cool any more IMO. That's nothing against the M3, its a great car, the trouble is, its a fast BMW with the right image, the same will happen to the V8's when they drop down below £12k or so....
Not just the M3. M5 V8, old M6...in fact any M car except the very newest has fallen prey to the chav here in NW. The other side of the coin is the M brand now appeals to the 30 something office worker with money to spare and no backbone and less driving talent. Loads of new M3 and M4 here in Manchester dawdling along that never ever exceed 30 mph. In fact out of the many new M cars I've seen in recent months most were notable for being overtaken. Problem is the nouveau riche chav treat them like jewellry to look at in Tesco carpark rather than a decent driving machine.The fact is, in the real world, all this “extra power" or handling finesse doesn't really mean much to your road pace.
It always amuses me when some TV show or magazine declares car x the winner because it lapped y track 0.5 seconds quicker than some other car. What does that have to do with the price of fish?
Before my group of friends got married, purchased houses and had children we used to do regular European trips in an assortment of cars including:
• Z4 Coupe 3.0
• Z4M Coupe
• E46 M3
• E46 M3 CSL
• E46 330d
• Supra 3.0
• TVR Tuscan
• Honda S2000
• A v8 Dax
The big learning from these trips, on a give and take road, 99% of the time there is no noticeable performance difference between any of these cars, no matter what the specs say.
In the range of situations and speeds you experience on the road, even if you have an extra 100hp, once you’re over 250bhp, your just not going to pull a meaningful gap out unless you really want to break the law.
Yes on the track, the car with the best chassis and the most powerful/flexible engine will win the race, but you’re not on track.
If all you care about is speed, just nip over the easyjet website and book yourself a ticket, otherwise, think about what it is you enjoy and buy appropriately.
It always amuses me when some TV show or magazine declares car x the winner because it lapped y track 0.5 seconds quicker than some other car. What does that have to do with the price of fish?
Before my group of friends got married, purchased houses and had children we used to do regular European trips in an assortment of cars including:
• Z4 Coupe 3.0
• Z4M Coupe
• E46 M3
• E46 M3 CSL
• E46 330d
• Supra 3.0
• TVR Tuscan
• Honda S2000
• A v8 Dax
The big learning from these trips, on a give and take road, 99% of the time there is no noticeable performance difference between any of these cars, no matter what the specs say.
In the range of situations and speeds you experience on the road, even if you have an extra 100hp, once you’re over 250bhp, your just not going to pull a meaningful gap out unless you really want to break the law.
Yes on the track, the car with the best chassis and the most powerful/flexible engine will win the race, but you’re not on track.
If all you care about is speed, just nip over the easyjet website and book yourself a ticket, otherwise, think about what it is you enjoy and buy appropriately.
johnwilliams77 said:
I am not saying there are NO genuine, nice, decent, professional non chav owners. I am saying they are the chav's dream and fall into the hands of many of these types. No offense intended.
I like the cars and the evo time attack car I was in was enormously exciting (400-450bhp) and also enormously expensive to run for trackday's v's supercharged exige. I would love to have a silly powered one in my dream garage.
Isn't that true for all cars though; I'm sure an Evora\Elise would be the envy of every council estate...it's just that they are not as practical and you can't fit seventeen kids and the Farmfoods weekly shop in it. No offense taken, I've owned my classic wagon for thirteen years and have watched the marque go from hero to zero; so heard it all before, it's just a bit tired that's all.I like the cars and the evo time attack car I was in was enormously exciting (400-450bhp) and also enormously expensive to run for trackday's v's supercharged exige. I would love to have a silly powered one in my dream garage.
Properly quick ones are much fun to drive, especially if its stealthy...400-450; pffffttt you want 500+ for real fun
I've noticed that the new breed of chavs are driving modern small hot hatches, a Honda or older BMW's. This seems to be very common now. Just look at any reasonable hot hatch and who's driving it.... I honestly rarely see an Impreza/Evo/Supra on the road now. That 20 minute YouTube video at Ace Cafe is funny. Only 1 Subaru in the entire video :
Tuvra said:
johnwilliams77 said:
I am not saying there are NO genuine, nice, decent, professional non chav owners. I am saying they are the chav's dream and fall into the hands of many of these types. No offense intended.
I like the cars and the evo time attack car I was in was enormously exciting (400-450bhp) and also enormously expensive to run for trackday's v's supercharged exige. I would love to have a silly powered one in my dream garage.
Actually, I think M3's are far more appealing to chavs now. I think the "German whip" image and the fact "Its an M3 bruh, SMG inni", even chavs don't think the Impreza's are cool any more IMO. That's nothing against the M3, its a great car, the trouble is, its a fast BMW with the right image, the same will happen to the V8's when they drop down below £12k or so.... I like the cars and the evo time attack car I was in was enormously exciting (400-450bhp) and also enormously expensive to run for trackday's v's supercharged exige. I would love to have a silly powered one in my dream garage.
Knuckle draggers getting their hands on nice cars are just one of them eventualities, sadly
I'm so pleased I found this thread as it kept me busy on my commute home from London. I have owned a number of cars in the previous 6 years including:
2x 335d's (one coupe and one tourer)
Z4M
135i
3x E92 M3's (DCT and 2x manual)
Regular use of my brothers C63 AMG / M235i
Current car - F82 M4 comp pack picked up 2 weeks ago
The car I had the longest out of all of those was in fact the Z4M. I loved the raw feel of it and it did feel very fast even if it wasn't the fastest out of all of them or compared with modified hatchbacks. Power isn't everything...although the 135i / M235i and 335d's I had were quick and in some cases faster they all lacked the feel any M car gives you. It's difficult to describe but the power feels synthetic. That being said the M4 doesn't feel like this, I guess the M division have a gift in giving M cars a 'special feel'. How important is speed? At the end of the day the day the M4 ZCP is faster than the majority of other cars on the road but how long will it be before hatchbacks are as quick. Does that mean I should modify it or buy something else? At the end of the day who cares as they will never feel as special as a M car. The Z4M is an amazing car and you should enjoy it...I miss mine.
2x 335d's (one coupe and one tourer)
Z4M
135i
3x E92 M3's (DCT and 2x manual)
Regular use of my brothers C63 AMG / M235i
Current car - F82 M4 comp pack picked up 2 weeks ago
The car I had the longest out of all of those was in fact the Z4M. I loved the raw feel of it and it did feel very fast even if it wasn't the fastest out of all of them or compared with modified hatchbacks. Power isn't everything...although the 135i / M235i and 335d's I had were quick and in some cases faster they all lacked the feel any M car gives you. It's difficult to describe but the power feels synthetic. That being said the M4 doesn't feel like this, I guess the M division have a gift in giving M cars a 'special feel'. How important is speed? At the end of the day the day the M4 ZCP is faster than the majority of other cars on the road but how long will it be before hatchbacks are as quick. Does that mean I should modify it or buy something else? At the end of the day who cares as they will never feel as special as a M car. The Z4M is an amazing car and you should enjoy it...I miss mine.
Prohibiting said:
That 20 minute YouTube video at Ace Cafe is funny. Only 1 Subaru in the entire video :
Did you watch the whole thing?It was quite insane. I just looked up local car meets/shows as I was bored on a Sunday and so popped up with a couple of friends.
It started off pretty tame whilst we had a beer and a peruse but by the time it was dark it had turned into total carnage. Shocking yet brilliant at the same time. We couldn't believe the Police didn't attend.
I agree with the S54 (especially in CSL format) being pure joy the moment you get in to the moment you get out. When I bought my M3, the dealer picked me up and dropped me off in a CSL when I went to visit the car by train. All it did was amp me up big time to get an S54 for myself lol.
Now I didn't have the cash to splash on a CSL, but I knew there were ways to get similar drama (mostly that sweet sweet induction noise) from a standard E46 M3, so I went with that route and have never regretted a moment since.
There isn't a single moment whereby the run from 6000rpm to 8000rpm doesn't put a grin on my face and if I'm carrying passengers, then their too.
It is a feeling that will never get old, and I cannot imagine getting the same feeling from more modern cars that are absolutely quicker and probably more power, but ultimately not much else in terms of sheer driving pleasure.
Now I didn't have the cash to splash on a CSL, but I knew there were ways to get similar drama (mostly that sweet sweet induction noise) from a standard E46 M3, so I went with that route and have never regretted a moment since.
There isn't a single moment whereby the run from 6000rpm to 8000rpm doesn't put a grin on my face and if I'm carrying passengers, then their too.
It is a feeling that will never get old, and I cannot imagine getting the same feeling from more modern cars that are absolutely quicker and probably more power, but ultimately not much else in terms of sheer driving pleasure.
robbiekhan said:
There isn't a single moment whereby the run from 6000rpm to 8000rpm doesn't put a grin on my face and if I'm carrying passengers, then their too.
It is a feeling that will never get old, and I cannot imagine getting the same feeling from more modern cars that are absolutely quicker and probably more power, but ultimately not much else in terms of sheer driving pleasure.
It is a feeling that will never get old, and I cannot imagine getting the same feeling from more modern cars that are absolutely quicker and probably more power, but ultimately not much else in terms of sheer driving pleasure.
Similar to my thoughts about the difference between a well engineered, high revving NA engine and forced induction. I still miss my old E36 EVO, which was more powerful and significantly lightly than standard; it was a living breathing thing and certainly every bit as fast than any E46 M3 I've driven. The mapped 335i I ran after the EVO was a lot quicker but it just didn't have the character, response, noise and drama delivered by the, throttle cable controlled, S50B32 motor.Edited by Crackie on Friday 10th June 10:16
A number of years ago, somewhere north of Munich, I recall the rear diffuser of the Astra OPC (aka VXR) in front shaking profusely around the 150mph-mark. I suspect the car was probably just about at its limiter anyway, but not sure that particular one really wanted to go much faster anyway. A random 1M was overtaken at something around the 175mph, and my CSL I had at the time was last clocked overtaking another one close to that speed on their nav. It kept pulling, and clocks went off the scale, so I suspect it was a bit above the 180mph before an approaching bend meant slowing slightly, and we never got up to those speeds again
Anyway, point of the story is that S54s, albeit in blueprinted CSL-form, are mighty engines that despite a lack of forced induction or huge cubic capacity can still keep pulling at the bigger numbers
Anyway, point of the story is that S54s, albeit in blueprinted CSL-form, are mighty engines that despite a lack of forced induction or huge cubic capacity can still keep pulling at the bigger numbers
Edited by Leins on Friday 10th June 11:44
stef1808 said:
Ive been feeling my e46 m is too slow lately also. cant decide whether to supercharge it or sell and use the money on another car
Mines ESS 550 supercharged.... It's an amazing bit of kit, it keeps all the character of the engine, just lifts the curve up by 200Bhp across the range! Hope you like 3rd gear wheelspin
Olf said:
The Z4MC has the M3 CSL hydraulic steering rack. Also a wise man goes without inbuilt sat-nav 
As far as I understand the Z4MC uses a different steering rack ratio to the roadster which is again different to the CSL.The Z4 does share some parts with the CSL (notably the exhaust manifold and brakes).
CSL 14.5:1
330 Clubsport 13.7:1
Z4M Roadster 13.7:1
Z4M Coupe: 12.8:1
I agree with the inbuilt nav.
talksthetorque said:
InductionRoar said:
Olf said:
Also a wise man goes without inbuilt sat-nav
I agree with the inbuilt nav. The only time I have ever used the (aftermarket) sat nav that my Z came with I couldn't see the screen because of the sun and couldn't hear the voice because of the wind/induction/exhaust noise.
Probably much more useable in a coupe but still they aren't exactly pretty.
InductionRoar said:
I agree with the inbuilt nav.
I disagree, once mastered I'm perfectly happy with the Nav and find it easier when driving on bumpy road for the passenger to 'turn and press' to select a destination rather than touch a screen. With v.32 software and current map disk it also seems rather better at route selection than our TomTom. johnwilliams77 said:
Too slow for what? The biggest upgrade is the driver. Try a driver training course like car limits?
How patronising. It's too slow because he said it is, not because he cares if you think it is! What's to say he hasn't already done driver training courses and/or races the car?Try the ESS, great bit of kit, seems very popular and rock solid engineering !
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