Z4M / E46 M3 - Are they just not that fast?

[Beedub]

Leins said:

It was me who initially brought up the "blueprinting" thing, but it was only said in passing as that was my understanding. TBH, it never bothered me either way when I owned the car, and even less now that I don't. My point was more that I found it a magnificent noisy car that was always an event to drive, and a major part of that was due to its S54. While not supercar fast, I never found the car lacking myself. In fact I was out in a supercharged CSL a few years back, and not only had it lost its signature sound, I felt it was almost too quick for the road. Make of that what you will I suppose

in a stock s54 that the z4 uses i didn't have to loose that lovely CSL signature sound, i agree probably too much power but you can now make ALOT of progress using 7k rpm....

[antacid]

Food for thought.. Ferrari 360's of a similar age to the E46 M3's will also be kept relatively honest in a straight line by a lot of the mega hatches of today to an extent, let alone modified ones..

In the same way that a hatch of today will show up a z4m caught unaware, an M3 of today will show up a 360 from 10 years ago.. Doesn't stop them being 'fast', just means that 'fast' has become much more accessible..

Edited by antacid on Tuesday 21st June 17:33

[Billy_Whizzzz]

cerb4.5lee said:

mark.c said:

Is there a car out there that you have in mind that the M3 could aspire to be?

The M3 is about as good as it gets I think, I prefer the two car option though an exciting/engaging car purpose built and then something comfy for the weekdays.

I'm not particularly interested in track days so a road biased M3 appeals to me very much. The e92 M3 is a fast GT with dynamics and engine better than most things for the same price plus the ability to soak up
commuting and also a spirited A/B road blast. Isn't that it's remit?

[Wills2]

I used to pull out on to the bypass and within a split second the s65 was shining away, you don't need a race track...piffle sorry but utter piffle.

[cerb4.5lee]

Billy_Whizzzz said:

cerb4.5lee said:

mark.c said:

Is there a car out there that you have in mind that the M3 could aspire to be?

The M3 is about as good as it gets I think, I prefer the two car option though an exciting/engaging car purpose built and then something comfy for the weekdays.

I'm not particularly interested in track days so a road biased M3 appeals to me very much. The e92 M3 is a fast GT with dynamics and engine better than most things for the same price plus the ability to soak up
commuting and also a spirited A/B road blast. Isn't that it's remit?

The M3 for me is just too much of a compromise though and not exciting enough, so for me I prefer something fast and comfortable for the daily duties and then have something in the garage that's genuinely exciting and engaging to drive for weekends for fun and enjoyment.

I just prefer the two car set up rather than one car that tries to do it all.

[Crackie]

antacid said:

Food for thought.. Ferrari 360's of a similar age to the E46 M3's will also be kept relatively honest in a straight line by a lot of the mega hatches of today to an extent, let alone modified ones..

In the same way that a hatch of today will show up a z4m caught unaware, an M3 of today will show up a 360 from 10 years ago.. Doesn't stop them being 'fast', just means that 'fast' has become much more accessible..

[k-ink]

At a certain point cars become fast enough for the road. Then other priorities must take over, perhaps comfort, or sexy looks, sounds, driver involvement, wind in the hair etc. I'd rather cruise along in the 360 mentioned above with a huge grin, than be the lad in a jumped up turbo golf trying to prove a point.

Smiles per hour do not appear on the spec sheet.

[billyali86]

Alot of people getting hung up of 0-60, 0-100 etc here. I think that shows he well a car can utilise its power.

Rolling acceleration seems to be a better indication of how fast a car actually is

[antacid]

k-ink said:

At a certain point cars become fast enough for the road. Then other priorities must take over, perhaps comfort, or sexy looks, sounds, driver involvement, wind in the hair etc. I'd rather cruise along in the 360 mentioned above with a huge grin, than be the lad in a jumped up turbo golf trying to prove a point.

Smiles per hour do not appear on the spec sheet.

Exactly that. My car isn't the fastest in the world but it's still fast and gives me the sort of inappropriate boner that I simply wouldn't get in a Golf, R or not..

My mate's evo destroyed my Z4M in many ways, but the buzzing 2 litre couldn't put a smile on his face as much as sliding around a country road with the top off could on mine.

[Wills2]

antacid said:

k-ink said:

At a certain point cars become fast enough for the road. Then other priorities must take over, perhaps comfort, or sexy looks, sounds, driver involvement, wind in the hair etc. I'd rather cruise along in the 360 mentioned above with a huge grin, than be the lad in a jumped up turbo golf trying to prove a point.

Smiles per hour do not appear on the spec sheet.

Exactly that. My car isn't the fastest in the world but it's still fast and gives me the sort of inappropriate boner that I simply wouldn't get in a Golf, R or not..

My mate's evo destroyed my Z4M in many ways, but the buzzing 2 litre couldn't put a smile on his face as much as sliding around a country road with the top off could on mine.

I agree, it's not the performance that matters past a certain point, more it's the way it's delivered that counts.

[toasty]

cerb4.5lee said:

The M3 for me is just too much of a compromise though and not exciting enough, so for me I prefer something fast and comfortable for the daily duties and then have something in the garage that's genuinely exciting and engaging to drive for weekends for fun and enjoyment.

I just prefer the two car set up rather than one car that tries to do it all.

For me, the M3 is the fast and comfortable daily driver, the genuinely exciting *ahem* weekend car is an 11 year old RAV4 (Our labrador sits shotgun at weekends).

I'd love a 3rd car, something lightweight, softtop and hideable from Mrs Toasty. Unfortunately, that's highly unlikely, she's finds everything!

[cerb4.5lee]

toasty said:

cerb4.5lee said:

The M3 for me is just too much of a compromise though and not exciting enough, so for me I prefer something fast and comfortable for the daily duties and then have something in the garage that's genuinely exciting and engaging to drive for weekends for fun and enjoyment.

I just prefer the two car set up rather than one car that tries to do it all.

For me, the M3 is the fast and comfortable daily driver, the genuinely exciting *ahem* weekend car is an 11 year old RAV4 (Our labrador sits shotgun at weekends).

I'd love a 3rd car, something lightweight, softtop and hideable from Mrs Toasty. Unfortunately, that's highly unlikely, she's finds everything!

I think the use of another car will make the M3 feel more special for sure, I really miss having my TVR as my weekend fun toy and would love something exciting again to use occasionally.

I think with any car though if you use it everyday it just becomes ordinary because you just get used to it and don't appreciate it's qualities as much.

[shim]

CSL

[bigpow]

All depends who's driving what. Z4m is still fast and fun, but get to understand it and it's a totally different girl...
What it allows you to do is enjoy all the noises and feel that a lot of cars have missing today because they are so good at what they do...
Peopke will be saying that escorts don't go sideways next

[robbiekhan]

shim said:

CSL

Great contribution!

[topless360]

On the flip side I have a Ferrari 360 Spider, and and a couple of years ago I found myself coming off a roundabout with a Z4M glued to my rear bumper.
WOT up to a lepton I only opened up a car length or so on the M, albeit my shifting wasn't great.

Point is, I think it takes a very large power difference to leave anything for dead.

[robbiekhan]

topless360 said:

On the flip side I have a Ferrari 360 Spider, and and a couple of years ago I found myself coming off a roundabout with a Z4M glued to my rear bumper.
WOT up to a lepton I only opened up a car length or so on the M, albeit my shifting wasn't great.

Point is, I think it takes a very large power difference to leave anything for dead.

People have mentioned this a few times here and it's absolutely correct. A friend of mine has an XFR and we were leaving a wedding the other day. Side by side, he obviously makes 500HP / 625Nm and the bulk of his power is in the lower rev range, whereas I make 345 and 380Nm with it being made use of at 6500-8300rpm. On a long stretch of open tarmac our distances closed with only small gaps here and there at higher song. I was fully expecting to be demolished.

[pvogue]

xfr is nearly 400kg heavier too

[Dr Nookie]

So as the weather is so stonking at the moment I took the old girl(a Z3MC) out for a spin last night and I'm in no doubt these remain (what I'd call at least) fast cars. Coupled with the overall ownership experience of having something a bit off the wall, whether you can leave the latest turbo'd hatch or whatever it is whimpering in the distance is no issue for me.

[Wills2]

robbiekhan said:

topless360 said:

On the flip side I have a Ferrari 360 Spider, and and a couple of years ago I found myself coming off a roundabout with a Z4M glued to my rear bumper.
WOT up to a lepton I only opened up a car length or so on the M, albeit my shifting wasn't great.

Point is, I think it takes a very large power difference to leave anything for dead.

People have mentioned this a few times here and it's absolutely correct. A friend of mine has an XFR and we were leaving a wedding the other day. Side by side, he obviously makes 500HP / 625Nm and the bulk of his power is in the lower rev range, whereas I make 345 and 380Nm with it being made use of at 6500-8300rpm. On a long stretch of open tarmac our distances closed with only small gaps here and there at higher song. I was fully expecting to be demolished.

It's very true and borne out by my experience with friends on sunny days in the dales sometimes there was 150hp difference between the various cars but on the road the on paper numbers often don't yield the advantage you think you should have.

You need an awful lot more power and often traction to really boss another car.