M5 F10 experiences and thoughts
Discussion
Hello Forum members
I've been reading the forums for a while having owned an F10 M5 2013 car for 2 and a half years now from new and wanted to share some thoughts and experiences with the car as well as get some feedback from other owners.
Things I like about the car
- looks great, turns heads and people generally like the car, been asked "rev it mate" or comments like "nice motor" so many times
- very comfortable, fits 4 adults with space to spare and the boot is massive - easily enough space for many suitcases or other stuff
- the adaptive headlights are great on twisty roads turning for bends, low speed turn lights also excellent being very wide
- fuel economy is decent - around town I get 22-24 mpg and on a gentle 70 mph motorway drive 30-33mpg
- 20" black wheels look great
- the iDrive computer system is excellent, does pretty much everything you need and I love the head up display
- it can be a nice comfy cruiser or if you bang our foot down it unleashes a wild angry monster that's just popped an illegal substance
Things that aren't so fantastic or things I've learned over time
- using the iDrive to find something simple like the nearest fuel station isn't as easy as it should be
- the EfficientDyamics mode whilst partially there doesn't seem to be fully implemented and doesn't have the features the manual says - not that I really care!
- shorter passengers complain that the bolsters on the seats make it less comfortable for them as they can't get their arms by their sides - didn't realise what they were complaining about as holding the wheel you don't have this problem
- the front air spoiler lip is very easy to hit on things - it actually sticks out further than the main bumper and so will make contact first - beware I know!
- the boot will lock when you close it. Possible if you placed the key fob in the boot while loading things in/out to close the boot lid and lock them in there.
- it's hopeless on wet grass / mud / snow - the car is heavy, the tyres are wide and flat and it's not hard to get bogged down really fast. Forget about asking your passenger to push because they won't make much difference to 2 tonnes of car up to it's sills in the mud and the dashboard lighting up like xmas with every warning light
- the concierge service is great, they get your GPS position and help you out - like sending a towtruck to pull you out of the mud :-)
- it's wide - much wider than a standard 5 series, won't fit easily between the guide rails in a car wash so watch for bashing your wheels and drive in with your head out of the window so you can see
LAUNCHING FROM A JUNCTION
- starting off smoothly but swiftly from a junction isn't easy. I don't know if its the autohold brake, or the "creep forward parking mode" on the accelerator or what but even now I struggle to get this car away from a junction swiftly and smoothly. I've tried every combination of settings and throttle approach but you either seem to lurch away giving your passengers whiplash or launch far too slowly and then you have to nail it after you start moving because the gap in the traffic has vanished that you were aiming for. Honestly I could beat this car away from a junction every time and more smoothly over the first 20 feet in any manual 1.6 car and without passengers thinking you don't know how to drive. It's just not smooth. The only solution I found if you need a rapid launch is to really go for it - use MDM mode and allow the wheels to slip if they need to avoiding the whiplash and traction control cutting leaving you dawdling in the middle of the road. Or just accept that a slow take of is the only way to get away smoothly. Anyone else experience this?
TYRES
My car came with Pirelli P Zeros all round. After about 8,000 miles the traction on the back was just really hopeless especially in the wet. The wheels were losing grip even around town so often it was just embarrassing. Even on the motorway it would happily spin the wheels at 60mph in the wet without really trying. I was starting to wonder what was wrong and was wishing for a 4x4 version! Read all the forums and realised P Zeros were the substitute tyre when Michelin were not available - so I decided to dump the P Zeros and put some Pilot Super Sports on the back even though the tyres still had about 5/6mm on them. The difference was like night and day instantly - the Michelins were so so much better and have continued to be since then. If you have P Zeros get rid of them and put Michelins on - you won't regret it.
My front P Zeros have lasted 26500 miles and have worn on the outside shoulder quite badly while the 75% of rest of the tyre still has a decent amount left and would probably do another 4 or 5,000 miles. I run them at 34-36psi. The nearside left is worst - because of roundabouts I guess. Overall I'm pretty happy with them lasting this long though. Pilot SS's for the front next time. The back PSSs have now done about 18,000 and have plenty of wear left in them.
Has required a service at about 15,000 miles and looks like it'll need the next one at 31,000. Has eaten 1 litre between each service.
BRAKES / TRACK DAY
Took the car to a track day. Having done quite a few track days before in other vehicles (M3, Jag XKR, Porsche 911 etc etc) so knew the score - my conclusion was that this car is really just too heavy for throwing round a track at anything like the full speed it could achieve. After about 10-15 mins and driving it at about 70% (to have some sympathy for the mechanics of the car) the brakes were starting to grumble badly braking from speed (ok so yes 140+) and go soft. The heat was pretty high coming off them and the tyres were suffering a lot too (pressures were ok). It's just a big car and heavy. Wasn't going as fast as I could have done on the straights because the brakes just didn't inspire confidence for killing the speed at the next corner. Conclusion - once was enough, it just seemed to just be chewing up the car and in the end I quit early because it ceased to be fun, the brakes were the weak point definitely.
I remapped the car.
Before 490 bhp at wheels / 620 bhp engine (which is always an estimate)
After 600 bhp at wheels / 740 bhp engine
It's instantly noticeable. Just go and do it. It turns the car from a monster to a wild rabid beast tearing at the leash to get away. You don't want to unleash it for long because you'll soon be well beyond license losing speeds. It's really brutal. In day to day driving you'll find it hard to find opportunity to release all that power without being a complete hooligan. With that amount of power and the massive increase in torque you have to really consider how you use your right foot because you absolutely can't just nail it - the tyres will light up in 1st, 2nd and 3rd in the dry and also 4th in the wet. Not sure why anyone would pay for the "competition pack" version with 20bhp or whatever more as it's the same engine (yes the suspension is different) but if you remap it you'll end up at the same. Save your money and get the remap done instead.
COOL THINGS
1. If you floor it when in S manual gear mode and hit the down shift paddle it takes you directly to the lowest gear for that speed giving you max acceleration. You watch out for wheelspin !
2. The cruise control drops your speed on corners if it thinks you are going too fast then reverts back when you straighten up
3. Adaptive lights are great following other vehicles lighting up the road either side of them without dazzling
4. Blipping the throttle while in gear results in the creep mode being engaged - the car crawls forward at a walking pace
5. You can deactivate the auto stop start by releasing and pressing the brake pedal again immediately after you stop (I just turn this off all the time using the switch anyway)
CONCLUSION
It's not that easy to drive as others because it's big, heavy and powerful.
Isn't "fun" in the way something like a Porsche Boxster is because it just doesn't feel that dynamic or comfortable being pushed fast round corners, so you aren't really grinning nearly as often.
It's very very fast and powerful (when it can get traction) - xDrive will be SO much better!
It is excellent as a comfy, cruising, multi purpose, practical, seriously fast machine that looks great and is a nice place to be inside for day to day use.
I've been reading the forums for a while having owned an F10 M5 2013 car for 2 and a half years now from new and wanted to share some thoughts and experiences with the car as well as get some feedback from other owners.
Things I like about the car
- looks great, turns heads and people generally like the car, been asked "rev it mate" or comments like "nice motor" so many times
- very comfortable, fits 4 adults with space to spare and the boot is massive - easily enough space for many suitcases or other stuff
- the adaptive headlights are great on twisty roads turning for bends, low speed turn lights also excellent being very wide
- fuel economy is decent - around town I get 22-24 mpg and on a gentle 70 mph motorway drive 30-33mpg
- 20" black wheels look great
- the iDrive computer system is excellent, does pretty much everything you need and I love the head up display
- it can be a nice comfy cruiser or if you bang our foot down it unleashes a wild angry monster that's just popped an illegal substance
Things that aren't so fantastic or things I've learned over time
- using the iDrive to find something simple like the nearest fuel station isn't as easy as it should be
- the EfficientDyamics mode whilst partially there doesn't seem to be fully implemented and doesn't have the features the manual says - not that I really care!
- shorter passengers complain that the bolsters on the seats make it less comfortable for them as they can't get their arms by their sides - didn't realise what they were complaining about as holding the wheel you don't have this problem
- the front air spoiler lip is very easy to hit on things - it actually sticks out further than the main bumper and so will make contact first - beware I know!
- the boot will lock when you close it. Possible if you placed the key fob in the boot while loading things in/out to close the boot lid and lock them in there.
- it's hopeless on wet grass / mud / snow - the car is heavy, the tyres are wide and flat and it's not hard to get bogged down really fast. Forget about asking your passenger to push because they won't make much difference to 2 tonnes of car up to it's sills in the mud and the dashboard lighting up like xmas with every warning light
- the concierge service is great, they get your GPS position and help you out - like sending a towtruck to pull you out of the mud :-)
- it's wide - much wider than a standard 5 series, won't fit easily between the guide rails in a car wash so watch for bashing your wheels and drive in with your head out of the window so you can see
LAUNCHING FROM A JUNCTION
- starting off smoothly but swiftly from a junction isn't easy. I don't know if its the autohold brake, or the "creep forward parking mode" on the accelerator or what but even now I struggle to get this car away from a junction swiftly and smoothly. I've tried every combination of settings and throttle approach but you either seem to lurch away giving your passengers whiplash or launch far too slowly and then you have to nail it after you start moving because the gap in the traffic has vanished that you were aiming for. Honestly I could beat this car away from a junction every time and more smoothly over the first 20 feet in any manual 1.6 car and without passengers thinking you don't know how to drive. It's just not smooth. The only solution I found if you need a rapid launch is to really go for it - use MDM mode and allow the wheels to slip if they need to avoiding the whiplash and traction control cutting leaving you dawdling in the middle of the road. Or just accept that a slow take of is the only way to get away smoothly. Anyone else experience this?
TYRES
My car came with Pirelli P Zeros all round. After about 8,000 miles the traction on the back was just really hopeless especially in the wet. The wheels were losing grip even around town so often it was just embarrassing. Even on the motorway it would happily spin the wheels at 60mph in the wet without really trying. I was starting to wonder what was wrong and was wishing for a 4x4 version! Read all the forums and realised P Zeros were the substitute tyre when Michelin were not available - so I decided to dump the P Zeros and put some Pilot Super Sports on the back even though the tyres still had about 5/6mm on them. The difference was like night and day instantly - the Michelins were so so much better and have continued to be since then. If you have P Zeros get rid of them and put Michelins on - you won't regret it.
My front P Zeros have lasted 26500 miles and have worn on the outside shoulder quite badly while the 75% of rest of the tyre still has a decent amount left and would probably do another 4 or 5,000 miles. I run them at 34-36psi. The nearside left is worst - because of roundabouts I guess. Overall I'm pretty happy with them lasting this long though. Pilot SS's for the front next time. The back PSSs have now done about 18,000 and have plenty of wear left in them.
- Does everyone get wear on the tyre shoulder like this? What tyre life does everyone else get?
Has required a service at about 15,000 miles and looks like it'll need the next one at 31,000. Has eaten 1 litre between each service.
BRAKES / TRACK DAY
Took the car to a track day. Having done quite a few track days before in other vehicles (M3, Jag XKR, Porsche 911 etc etc) so knew the score - my conclusion was that this car is really just too heavy for throwing round a track at anything like the full speed it could achieve. After about 10-15 mins and driving it at about 70% (to have some sympathy for the mechanics of the car) the brakes were starting to grumble badly braking from speed (ok so yes 140+) and go soft. The heat was pretty high coming off them and the tyres were suffering a lot too (pressures were ok). It's just a big car and heavy. Wasn't going as fast as I could have done on the straights because the brakes just didn't inspire confidence for killing the speed at the next corner. Conclusion - once was enough, it just seemed to just be chewing up the car and in the end I quit early because it ceased to be fun, the brakes were the weak point definitely.
- Anyone else taken their F10 to the track? Any suggestions for improved brake pads maybe??
I remapped the car.
Before 490 bhp at wheels / 620 bhp engine (which is always an estimate)
After 600 bhp at wheels / 740 bhp engine
It's instantly noticeable. Just go and do it. It turns the car from a monster to a wild rabid beast tearing at the leash to get away. You don't want to unleash it for long because you'll soon be well beyond license losing speeds. It's really brutal. In day to day driving you'll find it hard to find opportunity to release all that power without being a complete hooligan. With that amount of power and the massive increase in torque you have to really consider how you use your right foot because you absolutely can't just nail it - the tyres will light up in 1st, 2nd and 3rd in the dry and also 4th in the wet. Not sure why anyone would pay for the "competition pack" version with 20bhp or whatever more as it's the same engine (yes the suspension is different) but if you remap it you'll end up at the same. Save your money and get the remap done instead.
COOL THINGS
1. If you floor it when in S manual gear mode and hit the down shift paddle it takes you directly to the lowest gear for that speed giving you max acceleration. You watch out for wheelspin !
2. The cruise control drops your speed on corners if it thinks you are going too fast then reverts back when you straighten up
3. Adaptive lights are great following other vehicles lighting up the road either side of them without dazzling
4. Blipping the throttle while in gear results in the creep mode being engaged - the car crawls forward at a walking pace
5. You can deactivate the auto stop start by releasing and pressing the brake pedal again immediately after you stop (I just turn this off all the time using the switch anyway)
CONCLUSION
It's not that easy to drive as others because it's big, heavy and powerful.
Isn't "fun" in the way something like a Porsche Boxster is because it just doesn't feel that dynamic or comfortable being pushed fast round corners, so you aren't really grinning nearly as often.
It's very very fast and powerful (when it can get traction) - xDrive will be SO much better!
It is excellent as a comfy, cruising, multi purpose, practical, seriously fast machine that looks great and is a nice place to be inside for day to day use.
I have an M6 GC not an F10 M5, but your comments on rapid junction exit correspond exactly to my experience. I've found the best way is to give a hard jab on the accelerator and then lift off significantly, I suspect it's a combination of things, turbo lag, throttle response and the gearbox.
Didn't have any problems on track with the brakes, but I have the Carbon Ceramics!
Agree with traction on low grip surfaces, my E39 M5 is vastly superior.
Mine was supplied with PSS tyres from new, no complaints but the outside shoulders are bound to wear on a big heavy car if you push at all.
Didn't have any problems on track with the brakes, but I have the Carbon Ceramics!
Agree with traction on low grip surfaces, my E39 M5 is vastly superior.
Mine was supplied with PSS tyres from new, no complaints but the outside shoulders are bound to wear on a big heavy car if you push at all.
Excellent write up, thanks. This mirrors my experience (except from the remap, as mine is standard).
I had the P-Zeros, shocking in the wet. Swapped to PSS, it is like a different car.
Pulling away from junctions, I often see me son smack his head on the back of the seat as the car lurches away, however I think this is reduced in MDM or traction off.
I had the P-Zeros, shocking in the wet. Swapped to PSS, it is like a different car.
Pulling away from junctions, I often see me son smack his head on the back of the seat as the car lurches away, however I think this is reduced in MDM or traction off.
I've had mine for just under three years from new and if I were to attempt to write about my experience I would echo everything you said almost word for word.
I'm changing to a diesel X5 shortly, I'll miss the M5 however one point you possibly missed is that when (I'm) in a 'normal' car I'm sensible, when in my M5 I'm always a complete hooligan!
I'm changing to a diesel X5 shortly, I'll miss the M5 however one point you possibly missed is that when (I'm) in a 'normal' car I'm sensible, when in my M5 I'm always a complete hooligan!
I echo the OPs sentiments. Thought I was only person to notice the cruise speed drop on corners.
I'd add a recommendation for wintre Tyres regardless of snow.
And that in the cool features department, the Lci at least, has light touch sensitive radio control buttons. I.e. Touch AND push features.
I'd add a recommendation for wintre Tyres regardless of snow.
And that in the cool features department, the Lci at least, has light touch sensitive radio control buttons. I.e. Touch AND push features.
Interesting write up & whilst I agree with some of the points, I really don't struggle with traction (& never have). Mine's Stage 2 tuned so around 750bhp/700lbsft & as you say it's crushingly quick, however i'm on the standard 19" wheels & have always had MPSS (not an issue getting 19").
In poor conditions I of course pull my playtime in as yes grip off the line when wanting to play is an issue & I've had a couple of wobbles at over the national speed limit when pushing hard, but that's a couple in over 2yrs.
I too track mine but again don't share your experiences as am able to keep up with pretty much everything. In fact in less than ideal conditions at Spa last October (very low temps & an often damp track), I was lapping within 3-4 seconds of the 991 GT3's with a best of 3.01. I'm running with H&R Sports Springs as well as Pagid RS29 pads & they make a massive difference in both handling & stopping, the stock pads are really not up to track abuse.
In poor conditions I of course pull my playtime in as yes grip off the line when wanting to play is an issue & I've had a couple of wobbles at over the national speed limit when pushing hard, but that's a couple in over 2yrs.
I too track mine but again don't share your experiences as am able to keep up with pretty much everything. In fact in less than ideal conditions at Spa last October (very low temps & an often damp track), I was lapping within 3-4 seconds of the 991 GT3's with a best of 3.01. I'm running with H&R Sports Springs as well as Pagid RS29 pads & they make a massive difference in both handling & stopping, the stock pads are really not up to track abuse.
Thanks for you replies.
Yes traction was fixed by putting MPSS tyres on the rear, seems 25k+ miles is realistic the way they are wearing also despite some energetic driving :-)
Are there any warranty implications fitting non OEM pads?
What pads are recommended? Pagid? Are they much better than the OEM ones? Any UK sourcing options? I hate the horrible soft pedal feel, just lose confidence that the brakes will kill the speed at the next corner.
Yes traction was fixed by putting MPSS tyres on the rear, seems 25k+ miles is realistic the way they are wearing also despite some energetic driving :-)
Are there any warranty implications fitting non OEM pads?
What pads are recommended? Pagid? Are they much better than the OEM ones? Any UK sourcing options? I hate the horrible soft pedal feel, just lose confidence that the brakes will kill the speed at the next corner.
PowerMatters said:
Thanks for you replies.
Yes traction was fixed by putting MPSS tyres on the rear, seems 25k+ miles is realistic the way they are wearing also despite some energetic driving :-)
Are there any warranty implications fitting non OEM pads?
What pads are recommended? Pagid? Are they much better than the OEM ones? Any UK sourcing options? I hate the horrible soft pedal feel, just lose confidence that the brakes will kill the speed at the next corner.
No warranty implications that I know of. For fast road with some track action, you'll not go wrong with the Pagid RS29's. A company called Performance Braking has started selling the RS29's for the F10 M5 in the UK & I believe they're still cheaper than the OEM pads form a man dealer.Yes traction was fixed by putting MPSS tyres on the rear, seems 25k+ miles is realistic the way they are wearing also despite some energetic driving :-)
Are there any warranty implications fitting non OEM pads?
What pads are recommended? Pagid? Are they much better than the OEM ones? Any UK sourcing options? I hate the horrible soft pedal feel, just lose confidence that the brakes will kill the speed at the next corner.
HoHoHo said:
I've had mine for just under three years from new and if I were to attempt to write about my experience I would echo everything you said almost word for word.
I agree completely. I test drove an Evora 400 the other day and it was so much more exciting; the whole experience. It was also very comfortable and a nice place to sit. Of course the 400 is a totally different car, but it really brought home to me what the M5 is lacking... specialness.The M5 is a great car, but it isn't that exciting (except in a straight line).
mjw0321 said:
I agree completely.
I test drove an Evora 400 the other day and it was so much more exciting; the whole experience. It was also very comfortable and a nice place to sit. Of course the 400 is a totally different car, but it really brought home to me what the M5 is lacking... specialness.The M5 is a great car, but it isn't that exciting (except in a straight line).
I think the M5 is an amazing machine, mental in a straight line but also a riot in the wet. The Evora is also an amazing car, but totally different to an M5. For a start it can only take 2 people, and you wouldn't want to do a big mileage in one. I love my M5, and I seldom use full throttle. If you want a fully focussed sports car, you need to look at something other than an M5.I test drove an Evora 400 the other day and it was so much more exciting; the whole experience. It was also very comfortable and a nice place to sit. Of course the 400 is a totally different car, but it really brought home to me what the M5 is lacking... specialness.The M5 is a great car, but it isn't that exciting (except in a straight line).
V5Ade said:
mjw0321 said:
I agree completely.
I test drove an Evora 400 the other day and it was so much more exciting; the whole experience. It was also very comfortable and a nice place to sit. Of course the 400 is a totally different car, but it really brought home to me what the M5 is lacking... specialness.The M5 is a great car, but it isn't that exciting (except in a straight line).
I think the M5 is an amazing machine, mental in a straight line but also a riot in the wet. The Evora is also an amazing car, but totally different to an M5. For a start it can only take 2 people, and you wouldn't want to do a big mileage in one. I love my M5, and I seldom use full throttle. If you want a fully focussed sports car, you need to look at something other than an M5.I test drove an Evora 400 the other day and it was so much more exciting; the whole experience. It was also very comfortable and a nice place to sit. Of course the 400 is a totally different car, but it really brought home to me what the M5 is lacking... specialness.The M5 is a great car, but it isn't that exciting (except in a straight line).
mjw0321 said:
You definately could and would do big mileage in it. It was just as comfortable as the M5, and the ride is probably better.
Sorry, I should clarify. When Isaid you wouldn't want to do a a big milage in one, I didn't mean that the car couldn't take it, more that there is a very small market for high milage Lotus so the values suffer. It doesn't make sense as my Lotus have been the most reliable cars I've ever had!V5Ade said:
Sorry, I should clarify. When Isaid you wouldn't want to do a a big milage in one, I didn't mean that the car couldn't take it, more that there is a very small market for high milage Lotus so the values suffer. It doesn't make sense as my Lotus have been the most reliable cars I've ever had!
Indeed but this does not seem to have affected the Newey family - Adrian having been quoted as inheriting his father's Lotus which currently has clocked up in excess of 170,000 miles!! (Accepted there may be a few bills associated with this particular experience!!).Peter
RWD cossie wil said:
I'm seriously considering selling my supercharged (550bhp) E46 M3 & E60 535d & combining the funds into an F10 M5, I'm just slightly concerned that the sheer weight of it will blunt the driving experience a bit.... How do you find it hustling it down twisty A roads?
This is so subjective, I think you need to drive one and make the call for yourself. You can hustle it very quickly down an A road, but a B road can be a challenge due to the size of the car. When pressing on I like to have the gearbox in manual and fastest shift, throttle in sport, dampers in supersport, steering in normal and MDM on.Gassing Station | M Power | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff