Is the F8X M3 really that bad?
Discussion
They contradict themselves and each other all the time, Sutcliffe slated the e92 at launch then moaning about losing the S65 when he drove the M4.
He then reviews the CP M4 saying the car is just about acceptable in terms of ride in comfort but unacceptable in the other modes but the trade off is the car is a drift monster then Autocarp turn round and say it's compliant and doesn't like to go sideways.
This is why I ignore most of what they say other than the tech insight etc...
He then reviews the CP M4 saying the car is just about acceptable in terms of ride in comfort but unacceptable in the other modes but the trade off is the car is a drift monster then Autocarp turn round and say it's compliant and doesn't like to go sideways.
This is why I ignore most of what they say other than the tech insight etc...
Edited by Wills2 on Sunday 17th July 17:05
Engine noise aside. It's a better car in every way for me. It takes a while to get used to but once I did, it's a superb but of kit.
Having come straight from a v8 and before that a e46 m3, the performance is a big leap, as before Engine noise isn't up to the v8, but living with the car it grows on you.
Moats negatives are from people who don't own one or test them for half a day. As before, it takes a while to get used to but definitely worth the wait.
Having come straight from a v8 and before that a e46 m3, the performance is a big leap, as before Engine noise isn't up to the v8, but living with the car it grows on you.
Moats negatives are from people who don't own one or test them for half a day. As before, it takes a while to get used to but definitely worth the wait.
mysticm said:
Engine noise aside. It's a better car in every way for me. It takes a while to get used to but once I did, it's a superb but of kit.
Having come straight from a v8 and before that a e46 m3, the performance is a big leap, as before Engine noise isn't up to the v8, but living with the car it grows on you.
Moats negatives are from people who don't own one or test them for half a day. As before, it takes a while to get used to but definitely worth the wait.
Agree on the noise, on the rest is has always been the same every new M car often gets damned with faint praise, look how many iffy reviews they did on the e92 m3, only to praise it later when the new one came out. Having come straight from a v8 and before that a e46 m3, the performance is a big leap, as before Engine noise isn't up to the v8, but living with the car it grows on you.
Moats negatives are from people who don't own one or test them for half a day. As before, it takes a while to get used to but definitely worth the wait.
It'll be the same with the next one which could be AWD, "gone is the delicate balance of the F80" blah, blah, blah...
I bought my M4 before any reviews and had a deposit down long before the "sounds terrible" brigade turned up, now as an owner I'm going to be biased and say it's brilliant because it is, I've never understood the general hate for the new M3/4 as half of it is down to repeating the crap that the internet keeps regurgitating and the rest is massively personal opinion that the next reviewer will find to be a benefit, like some who say it's too easy to get out of shape yet others say it's fantastically easy to get out of shape.
I was contacted by a dealer looking to get my car for a customer this week (mine is one of only two manuals they have sold), and I like it so much I went and specd a new one, still only one decent colour though and individual colour is a six month wait so I'll be keeping it for now.
Having said all that, a friend of mine is adamant that The Phantom Menace is a good film, opinions.
I was contacted by a dealer looking to get my car for a customer this week (mine is one of only two manuals they have sold), and I like it so much I went and specd a new one, still only one decent colour though and individual colour is a six month wait so I'll be keeping it for now.
Having said all that, a friend of mine is adamant that The Phantom Menace is a good film, opinions.
Well I had a 2016 M4 for the day yesterday.
Can't say I was super impressed, drives and handles fine but the engine is not great, it has plenty of torque but the way it delivers the power is not great. The sound of the engine is unrefined and the exhaust sound is really awful.
I had previously decided to swap my 2013 E92 M3 for a new M4 next Feb but after the test drive I'll probably look at getting something else.
Can't say I was super impressed, drives and handles fine but the engine is not great, it has plenty of torque but the way it delivers the power is not great. The sound of the engine is unrefined and the exhaust sound is really awful.
I had previously decided to swap my 2013 E92 M3 for a new M4 next Feb but after the test drive I'll probably look at getting something else.
I test drove an M4 six months ago, previously owned both E36 and E46 M3's from new. The exhaust note on idle just sounds utterly ludicrous, really couldn't believe it to be honest. I test drive the car mostly on B roads and country lanes and the suspension was just awful....really didn't cope with the typical surface on these kind of roads at all well. How anyone can say the current gem car is the best M3/4 BMW have made is beyond me....sure it might be the fastest but you need to look at these cars against there peers and on that basis BMW has been going backward ever since the E46....up to then the M3 was the standout car in it's class now it most definitely isn't.
I ended up buying a 997 GTS for the same money as an M4 would have cost me...sure new it was a much more expensive car but as a driving experience they aren't even close.
I ended up buying a 997 GTS for the same money as an M4 would have cost me...sure new it was a much more expensive car but as a driving experience they aren't even close.
Went from e46 M3 to e92 M3 to 997.2 C2S to e92 CPM3 to F10 M5 to F80 M3.
The F80 is the best handling/riding/feel good car of all the M cars I've owned, it flies down the rutted, rippled, potholed Yorkshire moor b roads I frequent, has the keenest nose of any car I've ever owned and huge amounts of grip to lean on as the nose darts in to the corner.
The engine? It's no S65 but as a package I prefer the F80.
The 911 was the best out of the lot of course but we're not comparing them to M cars on this thread.....
The F80 is the best handling/riding/feel good car of all the M cars I've owned, it flies down the rutted, rippled, potholed Yorkshire moor b roads I frequent, has the keenest nose of any car I've ever owned and huge amounts of grip to lean on as the nose darts in to the corner.
The engine? It's no S65 but as a package I prefer the F80.
The 911 was the best out of the lot of course but we're not comparing them to M cars on this thread.....
I'm also puzzled by the latest M3/M4 hating. I'm 4 weeks into M4 ownership and so far I have to say it's pretty good. I'm coming out of a golf R and also have a 997 GTS.
The BMW is built very nicely and seems to be able to combine practicality with great performance. I have yet to do a full comparison against the 997 GTS but early signs are promising - they are just different types of car so I'm not sure a comparison is that worthwhile. Considering the M4 is almost half the price new, the porker is not twice as good that's for sure.
On the exhaust sound front I read that the M3/4 sounded crap before I got it but weirdly in the first couple of weeks more people have said they like the M4 sound then they have with the 997 in 3 years. Each to their own I guess but for me it doesn't sound as bad as the interweb will tell you.
The BMW is built very nicely and seems to be able to combine practicality with great performance. I have yet to do a full comparison against the 997 GTS but early signs are promising - they are just different types of car so I'm not sure a comparison is that worthwhile. Considering the M4 is almost half the price new, the porker is not twice as good that's for sure.
On the exhaust sound front I read that the M3/4 sounded crap before I got it but weirdly in the first couple of weeks more people have said they like the M4 sound then they have with the 997 in 3 years. Each to their own I guess but for me it doesn't sound as bad as the interweb will tell you.
I'm 10 months into the ownership of my M4 and while there's a few things I wish they'd sort I'm totally smitten with it.
I do wish the car stored the last driver settings so I didn't have to use "M1" for normal driving and also the last vent configuration on the climate control but I am nitpicking here.
My rear brake rattle issue I sorted with a £2.99 eBay purchase (3M brake shims).
As for the engine noise...that's only noticeable for the first 10 - 15 seconds on a cold start (sounds like a diesel) but didn't they originally say that about the V10 M5? After that it settles into a steady tone and not worthy of any criticism.
Torque is ridiculous and yes, if you stamp your foot down, it'll bite you hard...so respect it.
Handling is rock solid and it holds the line impeccably (although Sport+ is a ridiculously hard ride unless you find a glass-smooth section of tarmac).
The driver's seat is a nice place to be. Everything falls to hand and very comfortable.
In summary, everyone has their opinion, but I get up each morning and can't wait to drive it...and when all is said and done that's what makes an M-car for me.
:-)
I do wish the car stored the last driver settings so I didn't have to use "M1" for normal driving and also the last vent configuration on the climate control but I am nitpicking here.
My rear brake rattle issue I sorted with a £2.99 eBay purchase (3M brake shims).
As for the engine noise...that's only noticeable for the first 10 - 15 seconds on a cold start (sounds like a diesel) but didn't they originally say that about the V10 M5? After that it settles into a steady tone and not worthy of any criticism.
Torque is ridiculous and yes, if you stamp your foot down, it'll bite you hard...so respect it.
Handling is rock solid and it holds the line impeccably (although Sport+ is a ridiculously hard ride unless you find a glass-smooth section of tarmac).
The driver's seat is a nice place to be. Everything falls to hand and very comfortable.
In summary, everyone has their opinion, but I get up each morning and can't wait to drive it...and when all is said and done that's what makes an M-car for me.
:-)
JCHill said:
I'm 10 months into the ownership of my M4 and while there's a few things I wish they'd sort I'm totally smitten with it.
I do wish the car stored the last driver settings so I didn't have to use "M1" for normal driving and also the last vent configuration on the climate control but I am nitpicking here.
My rear brake rattle issue I sorted with a £2.99 eBay purchase (3M brake shims).
As for the engine noise...that's only noticeable for the first 10 - 15 seconds on a cold start (sounds like a diesel) but didn't they originally say that about the V10 M5? After that it settles into a steady tone and not worthy of any criticism.
Torque is ridiculous and yes, if you stamp your foot down, it'll bite you hard...so respect it.
Handling is rock solid and it holds the line impeccably (although Sport+ is a ridiculously hard ride unless you find a glass-smooth section of tarmac).
The driver's seat is a nice place to be. Everything falls to hand and very comfortable.
In summary, everyone has their opinion, but I get up each morning and can't wait to drive it...and when all is said and done that's what makes an M-car for me.
:-)
Same here with mine.I do wish the car stored the last driver settings so I didn't have to use "M1" for normal driving and also the last vent configuration on the climate control but I am nitpicking here.
My rear brake rattle issue I sorted with a £2.99 eBay purchase (3M brake shims).
As for the engine noise...that's only noticeable for the first 10 - 15 seconds on a cold start (sounds like a diesel) but didn't they originally say that about the V10 M5? After that it settles into a steady tone and not worthy of any criticism.
Torque is ridiculous and yes, if you stamp your foot down, it'll bite you hard...so respect it.
Handling is rock solid and it holds the line impeccably (although Sport+ is a ridiculously hard ride unless you find a glass-smooth section of tarmac).
The driver's seat is a nice place to be. Everything falls to hand and very comfortable.
In summary, everyone has their opinion, but I get up each morning and can't wait to drive it...and when all is said and done that's what makes an M-car for me.
:-)
Last vent on climate control?
Mine does an odd thing with climate control. If you press the button on the dash, so you have it at the highest - 3 lines pointing at the little seat image. Works fine on the drivers side but I can only get 2 lines on the passenger side?! Probably need to take a photo to explain it better,
The GMan said:
Mine does an odd thing with climate control. If you press the button on the dash, so you have it at the highest - 3 lines pointing at the little seat image. Works fine on the drivers side but I can only get 2 lines on the passenger side?! Probably need to take a photo to explain it better,
yep my M4 is the same, it bothered me for a day or two then i forgot about it. thanks for the reminder mow i have to go through that all again lol.as with any car some will love it, some will not. its one of those cars that takes quite some time to get used to. the different driving mode settings make a huge difference to the feel of the car and once youve got your head around your preferred settings for M1 and M2 (normally one for cruising and one for driving like a bellend) then it all comes together beautifully. That took me about 3000 miles to work out though which i know for some is an issue as lots just want a car you can jump into and drive without all the button pushing. for me though its fantastic as i have the choice of a daily driver feel or a true Mcar feel depending on mood/weather/traffic conditions etc..
Its by far the best car ive owned although ive not had a true Mcar before but came from an M135 previously and 135Msport coupe and Noble M12 GTO before that.
extended 3 day test drives are a must for the F8x as it takes at least that long to get a feel for how the different modes effect everything.
The GMan said:
Same here with mine.
Last vent on climate control?
Mine does an odd thing with climate control. If you press the button on the dash, so you have it at the highest - 3 lines pointing at the little seat image. Works fine on the drivers side but I can only get 2 lines on the passenger side?! Probably need to take a photo to explain it better,
Yep, the windscreen vent, it must take a dozen presses to get it (without going into full demist mode). Then, when I get back to the car, it's all reset again! Last vent on climate control?
Mine does an odd thing with climate control. If you press the button on the dash, so you have it at the highest - 3 lines pointing at the little seat image. Works fine on the drivers side but I can only get 2 lines on the passenger side?! Probably need to take a photo to explain it better,
Can't say I've noticed the driver / passenger difference but I'll try to remember to have a play with it.
Edited by JCHill on Monday 1st August 13:10
jimbooo said:
as with any car some will love it, some will not. its one of those cars that takes quite some time to get used to. the different driving mode settings make a huge difference to the feel of the car and once youve got your head around your preferred settings for M1 and M2 (normally one for cruising and one for driving like a bellend) then it all comes together beautifully. That took me about 3000 miles to work out though which i know for some is an issue as lots just want a car you can jump into and drive without all the button pushing. for me though its fantastic as i have the choice of a daily driver feel or a true Mcar feel depending on mood/weather/traffic conditions etc..
+1Its normal that owners are far more enthusiastic for the car than prospective buyers...few people are going to spend >£50k on a car and then be all down on it.
I liked everything about the car except the power delivery and the sound.
I suspect I could get used to the power delivery but not at all sure about the noise it makes.
I know you can code out the active sound but can you make the exhaust not sound like a teenagers souped up Corsa...maybe disconnect the internal exhaust flap so it doesn't open?
I liked everything about the car except the power delivery and the sound.
I suspect I could get used to the power delivery but not at all sure about the noise it makes.
I know you can code out the active sound but can you make the exhaust not sound like a teenagers souped up Corsa...maybe disconnect the internal exhaust flap so it doesn't open?
Found this sound comparison on YouTube: -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLTqaYftu-M
Different, definitely.
More rasp at the top-end, definitely.
Terrible? I wouldn't say so. Just the difference between n.a. V8 compared to a turbo inline-6.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLTqaYftu-M
Different, definitely.
More rasp at the top-end, definitely.
Terrible? I wouldn't say so. Just the difference between n.a. V8 compared to a turbo inline-6.
ive deleted active sound on mine (with HK audio option you simply pull the plug from the amp for active sound. takes 10 mins). and as for the exhaust note ive gone the other way and amplified it with an Mperformance exhaust and CG Precision valve controller. mine is configured as default flaps open and activated OEM flap operation.
but if you wanted to close the flaps all the time (not sure why you would but hey ho) then you can get the controller configured to default OEM and activated Flaps closed. this will override the ECU controlled flap operation and keep them closed.
its a pretty cheap part at around £130 if i remember correctly.
yes people will say it should have come from the factory with MPE etc but if you want to change the exhaust note there are options available.
but if you wanted to close the flaps all the time (not sure why you would but hey ho) then you can get the controller configured to default OEM and activated Flaps closed. this will override the ECU controlled flap operation and keep them closed.
its a pretty cheap part at around £130 if i remember correctly.
yes people will say it should have come from the factory with MPE etc but if you want to change the exhaust note there are options available.
JCHill said:
Yep, the windscreen vent, it must take a dozen presses to get it (without going into full demist mode). Then, when I get back to the car, it's all reset again!
Can't say I've noticed the driver / passenger difference but I'll try to remember to have a play with it.
Simples... set it to Auto. I used to avoid using the auto setting on climate control, then I realised what a numpty I had been all that time. Can't say I've noticed the driver / passenger difference but I'll try to remember to have a play with it.
Edited by JCHill on Monday 1st August 13:10
MWM3 said:
Simples... set it to Auto. I used to avoid using the auto setting on climate control, then I realised what a numpty I had been all that time.
...I hear you, it's just a bit frustrating that the last settings aren't stored that's all (same with the driving setup).But like I say...I'm nitpicking.
Max Maxasson said:
Its normal that owners are far more enthusiastic for the car than prospective buyers...few people are going to spend >£50k on a car and then be all down on it.
I liked everything about the car except the power delivery and the sound.
I suspect I could get used to the power delivery but not at all sure about the noise it makes.
I know you can code out the active sound but can you make the exhaust not sound like a teenagers souped up Corsa...maybe disconnect the internal exhaust flap so it doesn't open?
Not sure I agree Peter with people just backing the car they've got, I'm pretty honest about my cars I really do like this one, my boss and I had a play on the way home tonight he has an M4 me the M3, his car sounded terrific as came past me at full chat, I was really surprised how good it sounded as I do admit the sound isn't a patch on the S65.I liked everything about the car except the power delivery and the sound.
I suspect I could get used to the power delivery but not at all sure about the noise it makes.
I know you can code out the active sound but can you make the exhaust not sound like a teenagers souped up Corsa...maybe disconnect the internal exhaust flap so it doesn't open?
You never get the real view of the exhaust sound sat in the drivers seat, that's where the S65 was so fantastic because of all the induction roar.
Perfection would a an S65 dropped into the F80 chassis.
Your CP e92 is a great car, like you I've had two and they are great and there is no point in swapping if you don't like it.
Wills2 said:
Not sure I agree Peter with people just backing the car they've got, I'm pretty honest about my cars I really do like this one, my boss and I had a play on the way home tonight he has an M4 me the M3, his car sounded terrific as came past me at full chat, I was really surprised how good it sounded as I do admit the sound isn't a patch on the S65.
You never get the real view of the exhaust sound sat in the drivers seat, that's where the S65 was so fantastic because of all the induction roar.
Perfection would a an S65 dropped into the F80 chassis.
The S65 isn't for me a great engine for our roads though and the F80's engine offers far more satisfaction for more of the time, on a track though I would hanker for the S65 and its hunger for revs and its top end fireworks. You never get the real view of the exhaust sound sat in the drivers seat, that's where the S65 was so fantastic because of all the induction roar.
Perfection would a an S65 dropped into the F80 chassis.
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