Is the F8X M3 really that bad?

[Kawasicki]

Selmer Mk6 said:

Can someone put this traction issue into perspective for me, as i have only owned my M3 CP for two months and still getting used to it.

At what speed is one travelling to feel that the car lacks traction? Does all its rival have way better traction? (excluding Audi).

I think a higher level of skill is required to get the most out of these cars(not saying I have those skills). There is reason why these cars are so rewarding to drive, you have to 'drive' them.

The underlying theme from all the reports on this car is that you need to be on your game to get the best out of it. For some of us that is too much and we are not willing to work on it, hence we complain or we sell the car.

The rivals tend be easier to drive faster and more people want that. There are sacrifices. Look where Audi are positioning its new RS5? GT cruiser. It can't match the M4 for driving thrills and never has done, so it is giving up.
If you want to drive at serious speed on the public roads in all conditions maybe the M3 is not for you.

Oh and on the matter of size, I had a 240i before so yes it is bigger. I have two scuffed alloys already, but I'll get used to it.

I think they are very easy to drive, just not very good to drive. I experienced a lack of balance under acceleration out of corners, which required abrupt oversteer corrections. It is difficult to tune how much the rear axle is just helping the car turn, which for me is a big part of driving fun. I think it is partly due to storming performance, which I am not even slightly critical of, and partly due to suspension (and maybe diff) tune/calibration which I think was disappointing for an M car. I find the car easy but not thrilling to drive.

[anonymous-user]

Was the lack of balance due to chassis or traction lacking (or both)?

I haven't experienced the pre-CP pack car to compare, however I haven't found the CP one too onerous under throttle. I wonder if some of the unruly behaviour people have experienced was tamed by changes to the software/damping/OEM tyres brought to the CP cars?

[JMBMWM5]

janesmith1950 said:

Was the lack of balance due to chassis or traction lacking (or both)?

I haven't experienced the pre-CP pack car to compare, however I haven't found the CP one too onerous under throttle. I wonder if some of the unruly behaviour people have experienced was tamed by changes to the software/damping/OEM tyres brought to the CP cars?

My 2017 M3 CP does not give traction lights at all under boot downs.

[s2000db]

Did i read somewhere, that later versions have the torque reduced in lower gears to make them more 'drivable'??

(a la Ferrari)

[sato]

I've never driven a current shape M3/M4, but everytime I hear how improved the latest versions are over the 'spikey' original all I can think is that in 10+years the early challenging ones will be the most sought after.
Think older 911 Turbo, Clio V6 etc. Am I way off the mark?

[theboss]

JMBMWM5 said:

OL I never go local if there is a better deal out their, but yea I do change cars a lot.
How's the M5?

Still being used and abused as my daily workhorse... which is unlikely to change any time soon (I need to ride out the depreciation!)

[Patrick Bateman]

I can see where you're coming from but BMW M at their absolute best don't make 'spikey' cars.

[Kawasicki]

janesmith1950 said:

Was the lack of balance due to chassis or traction lacking (or both)?

I haven't experienced the pre-CP pack car to compare, however I haven't found the CP one too onerous under throttle. I wonder if some of the unruly behaviour people have experienced was tamed by changes to the software/damping/OEM tyres brought to the CP cars?

I think It is due to a combination of very strong engine performance and a rear axle that feels like it is possibly too roll stiff, I'm guessing though!

[Kawasicki]

JMBMWM5 said:

janesmith1950 said:

Was the lack of balance due to chassis or traction lacking (or both)?

I haven't experienced the pre-CP pack car to compare, however I haven't found the CP one too onerous under throttle. I wonder if some of the unruly behaviour people have experienced was tamed by changes to the software/damping/OEM tyres brought to the CP cars?

My 2017 M3 CP does not give traction lights at all under boot downs.

Even in the middle of a corner?

[Kawasicki]

Patrick Bateman said:

I can see where you're coming from but BMW M at their absolute best don't make 'spikey' cars.

The e90 is almost exactly the opposite to the f30. It is hard for me to believe it came from the same company.

[bennyboysvuk]

JMBMWM5 said:

My 2017 M3 CP does not give traction lights at all under boot downs.

The 2016 car that I drove got amazing traction with full-bore acceleration from a rolling start on a dry road with warm tyres. But with DSC off completely, mid-corner the car could easily be made to go sideways at any UK road speed.

[PorkInsider]

Kawasicki said:

I think It is due to a combination of very strong engine performance and a rear axle that feels like it is possibly too roll stiff, I'm guessing though!

I agree to some extent. I think part of the issue some people have with the F8x is not appreciating just how quick they really are, which is a recipe for thinking the car is tying itself in knots when it isn't.

Interestingly though the CP cars get bigger ARBs, as far as I'm aware, so not sure about the excessive roll stiffness being the early car's issue. Although, with damping and electronics changes also included it's hard to say how they've changed the overall setup through the revisions..

For a mid-sized 4/5 seater saloon/coupe they are surprisingly quick and particularly strong in the mid-range. Given that, I don't think there's much to complain about in the traction or handling.

I took a friend out in mine and he couldn't believe how much stronger it is than the E92 M3 he used to have. In pure performance figures terms they're a world apart and I suppose something has to give when developing a 'do it all' car like the F8x.

Edited by PorkInsider on Wednesday 30th August 15:56

[Patrick Bateman]

Do some people not appreciate what a 0-100mph time of ~8.5 seconds means in terms of its capability?

[nbetts]

Patrick Bateman said:

Do some people not appreciate what a 0-100mph time of ~8.5 seconds means in terms of its capability?

Obviously Not! The F8x M3/M4 is a seriously capable piece of machinery. They are a huge step-up in terms of performance than the previous lovely E92 M3.

Noticeably faster at acceleration from any given speed.

With regards to when did BMW make revisions to the 'badly damped' rear end - I think it was Factory built from June 2015 onwards there was a revision to the F80 M3 with regards to rear dampers. I presume it was the same with the M4?

The CP cars do not have the same 'bad damping' and therefore poor traction that the early F80 M3 & M4 cars had at all. They do have however have a rather large dollop of extra torque and power meaning that 'nailing the throttle' mid-corner will not go unnoticed like it does in less punchy cars.

You may have been able to get away with it in a E92 M3, perhaps... It is unlikely you would get away with it in a F80 M3 just due to the available power on tap.

Nailing the throttle mid-corner is a very hamfisted way of driving a rear drive car - the throttle is not a binary device after all.

[PorkInsider]

Patrick Bateman said:

Do some people not appreciate what a 0-100mph time of ~8.5 seconds means in terms of its capability?

I don't think that they do.

Well, if you spelled it out to them in sheer numbers they would, but to many people even 'petrolheads' M3/4s are just fast 'normalish' cars.

When you look at the figures, especially in-gear acceleration, alongside some cars which everyone perceives to be very fast, it becomes clearer.

[cerb4.5lee]

PorkInsider said:

Patrick Bateman said:

Do some people not appreciate what a 0-100mph time of ~8.5 seconds means in terms of its capability?

I don't think that they do.

Well, if you spelled it out to them in sheer numbers they would, but to many people even 'petrolheads' M3/4s are just fast 'normalish' cars.

When you look at the figures, especially in-gear acceleration, alongside some cars which everyone perceives to be very fast, it becomes clearer.

Agree and I thought that the E92 M3 had normal performance overall, yet I'm not sure I'd feel the same about the M4 because it's in a different league in every respect apart from traction.

You could drive the E92 M3 like a tit and not worry...I'm not sure you could do the same in the M4 and for me it's all the better for it.

[cosworth330]

I've got an early F80 M3 December 2014 and it's a bit savage when accelerating hard in 1st and 2nd and will spin up if you bury the pedal to the floor. I know this is rectified by just having the latest software download from BMW as lots of others have had this done. Most are pleased with the change but I have also read that a few people say they preferred it how it was. I remember having a lot worse traction issues in old Cossies running 2bar they would spin up a lot, you had to respect the power and learn how to get the best out of it.

[SebringMan]

I own an E46 M3 and drove a mate's M4 Manual.

IMHO it's a lovely car. It grips well and goes along quite nicely! The active sound is annoying and neither of us know how to get rid of it! It's very fast too! Niggles?

As said the interior is not BMW's finest hour. Sure it looks nice stepping with the BMW factor but TBH it's not that different to an E90 if you ask me. The seats are lovely it has to be said if you want to be held in but they are a bit on the firm side for long distances ; even my mate was saying my humble E46 was a nicer drive on longer trips.

The steering is OK but understandably the E46 is better here.

As said the space of it from the outside is surprising! It's huge! I felt a little nervous driving it initially to be fair. The boot is not as big as you think either.

That said despite how nice the E90s sound I'd probably get an F8x over an E9x. Possibly event mine purely for it being alot faster and being newer (more the reliability and cost side of things).

[JMBMWM5]

theboss said:

Still being used and abused as my daily workhorse... which is unlikely to change any time soon (I need to ride out the depreciation!)

LOL you must have by now on your mileage .

[ratty6464]

SebringMan said:

I own an E46 M3 and drove a mate's M4 Manual.

IMHO it's a lovely car. It grips well and goes along quite nicely! The active sound is annoying and neither of us know how to get rid of it! It's very fast too! Niggles?

As said the interior is not BMW's finest hour. Sure it looks nice stepping with the BMW factor but TBH it's not that different to an E90 if you ask me. The seats are lovely it has to be said if you want to be held in but they are a bit on the firm side for long distances ; even my mate was saying my humble E46 was a nicer drive on longer trips.

The steering is OK but understandably the E46 is better here.

As said the space of it from the outside is surprising! It's huge! I felt a little nervous driving it initially to be fair. The boot is not as big as you think either.

That said despite how nice the E90s sound I'd probably get an F8x over an E9x. Possibly event mine purely for it being alot faster and being newer (more the reliability and cost side of things).

If your mate has the HK stereo option, find the amp in the wheel arch in the boot and pull out the clip with all the wires from the amp. it will then disable the active sound with no other issues caused...