Are BMW M2 actually changing hands at a premium ?

[nwates]

Blown away by my DCT

[giger]

Alpinestars said:

What didn't you like about it?

I can't quite put my finger on it but it didn't excite me. It was great but there was no sense of pace or speed. The turn in was good but I didn't feel that connected to the car. The manual was obviously much better than the DCT for this. The car looks great outside in LBB but that didn't translate to the road. It is no doubt a good car, a great daily but I jumped in my 9 year old harsh, unrefined but ultimately very mechanical Jap type R (the FD2 one if you know it) and enjoyed my drive home in that more.

Quite disappointed really as it has been on order since March so somewhat of an anti-climax. Might wait out for the new TVR, maybe the new Supra or Z5 but I keep being told to try an exige or evora (hello Rob).

[Alpinestars]

giger said:

I can't quite put my finger on it but it didn't excite me. It was great but there was no sense of pace or speed. The turn in was good but I didn't feel that connected to the car. The manual was obviously much better than the DCT for this. The car looks great outside in LBB but that didn't translate to the road. It is no doubt a good car, a great daily but I jumped in my 9 year old harsh, unrefined but ultimately very mechanical Jap type R (the FD2 one if you know it) and enjoyed my drive home in that more.

Quite disappointed really as it has been on order since March so somewhat of an anti-climax. Might wait out for the new TVR, maybe the new Supra or Z5 but I keep being told to try an exige or evora (hello Rob).

Ditto. I thought it was quite quick to be fair, but didn't like the feel of the e steering and the suspension was "busy" and annoying. Didn't feel at all special. The 1M is a much better drivers' car in my view.

And I love the Type R.

[Helicopter123]

Whisper is BMW lining up lease deals for Q4.

Watch this space...

[rosino]

Helicopter123 said:

Whisper is BMW lining up lease deals for Q4.

Watch this space...

I have been shown 5.9% Apr and no discount nor contribution of any kind. PCP contract seems to be showing 24mths guaranteed value at 58%, and 49% for 3 years. Fwiw. This is for a September car.

Not sure why they would offer discounts when the car is still selling itself and wait is 6-12months. But anything can change of course.

[JMBMWM5]

These cars are "no great shakes" discounts will be here soon same as the rest, and RV will drop to follow, be patient.

[Helicopter123]

rosino said:

Helicopter123 said:

Whisper is BMW lining up lease deals for Q4.

Watch this space...

I have been shown 5.9% Apr and no discount nor contribution of any kind. PCP contract seems to be showing 24mths guaranteed value at 58%, and 49% for 3 years. Fwiw. This is for a September car.

Not sure why they would offer discounts when the car is still selling itself and wait is 6-12months. But anything can change of course.

It's not a discount, it's that cheap money (base rates @ 0.25%) plus a rock solid residual means that they have the opportunity to distribute these as lease deals as per the Golf R.

[andyman_2006]

Helicopter123 said:

rosino said:

Helicopter123 said:

Whisper is BMW lining up lease deals for Q4.

Watch this space...

I have been shown 5.9% Apr and no discount nor contribution of any kind. PCP contract seems to be showing 24mths guaranteed value at 58%, and 49% for 3 years. Fwiw. This is for a September car.

Not sure why they would offer discounts when the car is still selling itself and wait is 6-12months. But anything can change of course.

It's not a discount, it's that cheap money (base rates @ 0.25%) plus a rock solid residual means that they have the opportunity to distribute these as lease deals as per the Golf R.

---

Personally i dont see 5.9% Apr as a 'great' deal with base rates @ 0.25%. I have just finished my PCP i signed up 3 years ago and my rate was 3.8% apr, and excess mileage @6ppm, so rates have gone up a fair chunk in 3 years as have some of the excess mileage charges some now at 11ppm depending on car and dealer/manufacturer.

With Bank loans and personal finance rates around 3.2-3.7% apr it makes you re-think the PCP deals a little more than maybe previously.

Suppose it depends on how much deposit you have, or value in current car trading in or selling, but leasing is also now appearing cheaper than doing a PCP and with less ties to the car.

Andy.

[Phooey]

There's a brand new 66plate one popped up in the classifieds for September delivery @ £1800.00 premium.

I think it's obvious they will depreciate slowly but also IMO I think they will be below list very soon

Edited by Phooey on Wednesday 10th August 11:58

[Fiesta1.0L]

andyman_2006 said:

---

Personally i dont see 5.9% Apr as a 'great' deal with base rates @ 0.25%. I have just finished my PCP i signed up 3 years ago and my rate was 3.8% apr, and excess mileage @6ppm, so rates have gone up a fair chunk in 3 years as have some of the excess mileage charges some now at 11ppm depending on car and dealer/manufacturer.

With Bank loans and personal finance rates around 3.2-3.7% apr it makes you re-think the PCP deals a little more than maybe previously.

Suppose it depends on how much deposit you have, or value in current car trading in or selling, but leasing is also now appearing cheaper than doing a PCP and with less ties to the car.

Andy.

Agree - that's what the dealer offered me. Given I can draw money out of the mortgage at 1.3% I'm going to self-fund it. Anyone know if BMW dealers take credit cards for cars? That's a lot of airmiles if they do...

[disad-vantage-d]

Fiesta1.0L said:

andyman_2006 said:

---

Personally i dont see 5.9% Apr as a 'great' deal with base rates @ 0.25%. I have just finished my PCP i signed up 3 years ago and my rate was 3.8% apr, and excess mileage @6ppm, so rates have gone up a fair chunk in 3 years as have some of the excess mileage charges some now at 11ppm depending on car and dealer/manufacturer.

With Bank loans and personal finance rates around 3.2-3.7% apr it makes you re-think the PCP deals a little more than maybe previously.

Suppose it depends on how much deposit you have, or value in current car trading in or selling, but leasing is also now appearing cheaper than doing a PCP and with less ties to the car.

Andy.

Agree - that's what the dealer offered me. Given I can draw money out of the mortgage at 1.3% I'm going to self-fund it. Anyone know if BMW dealers take credit cards for cars? That's a lot of airmiles if they do...

Probably varies from dealer to dealer. Mine allowed a max of 5k on a credit card.

[rosino]

disad-vantage-d said:

Probably varies from dealer to dealer. Mine allowed a max of 5k on a credit card.

Same as my Porsche dealer. 10k miles in the pocket almost made me feel better about all that cash locked in a wing with a car attached to it

[Franzino]

giger said:

I may be backing out of my manual M2 which is due for delivery December/January. I drove a DCT earlier in the year and was quite underwhelmed, I finally got a drive in a manual a few weeks ago and TBH wasn't as excited as I should have been. Great as a fast daily, not so great a something special sat in the garage (which this would be) for an occasional blast.

M2 is a great daily driver....that is why I bought mine. It's not a car for an occasional blast...get a Exige, Elise for that purpose.

[Welshbeef]

When do we think BMW will be increasing the RRP to reflect the change in exchange rate?

BMW clearly now want to sell more LHD over RHD models due to higher margins all else being equal.

[kezsan]

They don't leave themselves open to short term risk like this, they hedge currency fluctuations years in advance.

[Welshbeef]

kezsan said:

They don't leave themselves open to short term risk like this, they hedge currency fluctuations years in advance.

Still an opportunity to have easy price inflation

[kezsan]

But then they set an awkward precedent in linking car price to currency price. If that happened, lets say in a year the Euro is back to a price of 0.7ish like 12 months ago as opposed to 0.86 now you'd be entitled to ask for 20% off your car price, and they'd not like that as much as a bit more margin now. Also as they sell cars in pretty much every country, there are more volatile currencies to deal with then EUR / GBP. Check out the chart for EUR / JPY, it's probably seen swings of over 50% in the past few years.

They have to guarantee a consistent price for years in advance, you couldn't have cars going up and down in value all the time and the impact to their financial year would be totally dependent on a low euro, would be too dangerous.

[Welshbeef]

kezsan said:

But then they set an awkward precedent in linking car price to currency price. If that happened, lets say in a year the Euro is back to a price of 0.7ish like 12 months ago as opposed to 0.86 now you'd be entitled to ask for 20% off your car price, and they'd not like that as much as a bit more margin now. Also as they sell cars in pretty much every country, there are more volatile currencies to deal with then EUR / GBP. Check out the chart for EUR / JPY, it's probably seen swings of over 50% in the past few years.

They have to guarantee a consistent price for years in advance, you couldn't have cars going up and down in value all the time and the impact to their financial year would be totally dependent on a low euro, would be too dangerous.

Surely it depends on the value.

A business could make a massive loss for every car sold unless they up price - if they do not address that then they are not giving their shareholders best value for money

[nickfrog]

KenC said:

nickfrog said:

kezsan said:

It will be interesting to see the impact on values for the M2 and other cars that just sneak over the £40k Bracket in April 2017 when there are additional taxes to pay.

Do you know what £40k refers to ? Base list price ? List price with options ? Actual transaction price as per invoice ?

List price plus options.

Hi Ken. Thanks. OPC is now telling me it's the invoice price that governs the rate. Confusing.

[KenC]

nickfrog said:

KenC said:

nickfrog said:

kezsan said:

It will be interesting to see the impact on values for the M2 and other cars that just sneak over the £40k Bracket in April 2017 when there are additional taxes to pay.

Do you know what £40k refers to ? Base list price ? List price with options ? Actual transaction price as per invoice ?

List price plus options.

Hi Ken. Thanks. OPC is now telling me it's the invoice price that governs the rate. Confusing.

Hi Nick. I've copied this from a What Car? article. So it is list price less otr charges plus cost of option.

The law defines the price as the car’s list price, so any discount you are able to negotiate won’t affect the car’s VED band. The list price is the price of the car before the ‘on-the-road’ charges are added, such as a delivery charge, new vehicle registration fee, numberplates and fuel.

Beware, too, that if you buy a car that has a list price of less than £40k, but add some options that take the price over the threshold, you’ll be liable for the higher rate of tax. In short, an option for a few hundred pounds could end up costing you more than £1500 over five years in extra VED costs.

For example, the Audi A6 Avant 2.0 TDI Ultra Black Edition S tronic has an RRP of £39,890 so it would cost £140 a year in VED in years two to six. However, choosing an optional three-point steering wheel for £200 pushes that figure to £40,090 meaning that the Audi will now cost £450 a year in those same years to tax. Whether car manufacturers will change their pricing or specification levels remains to be seen.