What would you pay? Highest mileage CSL

What would you pay? Highest mileage CSL

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Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Tuesday 23rd August 2016
quotequote all
carbonblack said:
Welshbeef said:
But then you have Frankenstein

Killed the value of that £15k E46.

Or to a buyer it looks like champagne taste lemonade budget.
Hardly champagne taste lemonade budget IMO. There's a reason so many E46 M3s have CSL alloys (mine included) - they look fantastic. A carbon airbox is a revertible mod and the noise is exceptional.

With a carbon airbox it's 90% of the CSL without the premium.
Well one is a £40-60k car the other a £8k+ car with a few modifications.


Buy a Clubsport instead if you must

CSL wheels look good but only on a CSL those in he know realise they are not OEM wheels put into a std m3.

GregorFuk

563 posts

199 months

Tuesday 23rd August 2016
quotequote all
carbonblack said:
Hardly champagne taste lemonade budget IMO. There's a reason so many E46 M3s have CSL alloys (mine included) - they look fantastic. A carbon airbox is a revertible mod and the noise is exceptional.

With a carbon airbox it's 90% of the CSL without the premium.
LOL. Okay-doke, keep telling yourself that if it makes you happy.

carbonblack

293 posts

156 months

Tuesday 23rd August 2016
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
Well one is a £40-60k car the other a £8k+ car with a few modifications.


Buy a Clubsport instead if you must

CSL wheels look good but only on a CSL those in he know realise they are not OEM wheels put into a std m3.
CSL wheels don't only look good on a CSL. Seeing as the only visual differences between the standard E46 and CSL is the bumper which has an air intake hole and the boot which looks good, its hardly chalk and cheese.

A CS has a massive premium for what? The 'right' to wear OEM CS alloys and have 20mm bigger brake discs? I'd rather get a BBK personally but then I'm comfortable with having non OEM mods on my car.

GregorFuk said:
LOL. Okay-doke, keep telling yourself that if it makes you happy.
Suspension, brakes (slightly uprated) and a carbon airbox. I appreciate you're a CSL owner but leaving the rarity factor and interior aside, there isn't a great deal between the two cars. Ok, slightly more power and less weight but is it not 80-90% the same car?


Edited by carbonblack on Tuesday 23 August 20:14

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Tuesday 23rd August 2016
quotequote all
@carbon black - smart investment and enjoyment money goes into the E46 M3 CS if you don't see that and think a tricked up std M3 coupe does the business good for you but you'll lose out £ wise if that is the case.


So I'd highly recommend any new to buy this gem rest car if you have the money go for the CSL it's great, if you cannot stretch for that then the CS or if your budget is less the std model is a great car you'll not be disappointed with.

GregorFuk

563 posts

199 months

Tuesday 23rd August 2016
quotequote all
carbonblack said:
Suspension, brakes (slightly uprated) and a carbon airbox. I appreciate you're a CSL owner but leaving the rarity factor and interior aside, there isn't a great deal between the two cars. Ok, slightly more power and less weight but is it not 80-90% the same car?


Edited by carbonblack on Tuesday 23 August 20:14
Are you yanking my chain?



Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Tuesday 23rd August 2016
quotequote all
GregorFuk said:
carbonblack said:
Suspension, brakes (slightly uprated) and a carbon airbox. I appreciate you're a CSL owner but leaving the rarity factor and interior aside, there isn't a great deal between the two cars. Ok, slightly more power and less weight but is it not 80-90% the same car?


Edited by carbonblack on Tuesday 23 August 20:14
Are you yanking my chain?
Lemonade budget.

carbonblack

293 posts

156 months

Tuesday 23rd August 2016
quotequote all
GregorFuk said:
Are you yanking my chain?
Same chassis, nearly the entire engine, most of the body - shall I go on? I did say leaving the interior and rarity factor out of the equation. My point is it's not like comparing a 330 and an M3. They're a little bit more alike than that...

Welshbeef said:
Lemonade budget.
How so? Because I didn't spent £50k on a CSL and have some non OEM wheels? Shock horror... I haven't got a CSL badge on the car and it's not got Halfords specials alloys on it.

I am happy spending < £10k on an E46 M3 and adding some choice mods. It's not the same as a CSL but seeing as mine is making around 360BHP with a carbon airbox, it's not a million miles off.

I were spending £40-60k on a car, the CSL wouldn't enter my mind with the other options at that price. I say that as a massive fan of the E46. If you're happy with a CSL then that's great for you, it's an awesome car and bound to rise in value.

I don't buy cars for as an investment but I'm content knowing that I won't lose much if anything on mine come resale time, so long as I can find another lemonade buyer, of which there are plenty.


Could you apply the lemonade logic to your 535 because you didn't buy an M5?

GregorFuk

563 posts

199 months

Tuesday 23rd August 2016
quotequote all
carbonblack said:
How so? Because I didn't spent £50k on a CSL and have some non OEM wheels? Shock horror... I haven't got a CSL badge on the car and it's not got Halfords specials alloys on it.

I am happy spending < £10k on an E46 M3 and adding some choice mods. It's not the same as a CSL but seeing as mine is making around 360BHP with a carbon airbox, it's not a million miles off.

I were spending £40-60k on a car, the CSL wouldn't enter my mind with the other options at that price. I say that as a massive fan of the E46. If you're happy with a CSL then that's great for you, it's an awesome car and bound to rise in value.

I don't buy cars for as an investment but I'm content knowing that I won't lose much if anything on mine come resale time, so long as I can find another lemonade buyer, of which there are plenty.

Could you apply the lemonade logic to your 535 because you didn't buy an M5?
Okay, I think we know where you stand.

carbonblack

293 posts

156 months

Tuesday 23rd August 2016
quotequote all
GregorFuk said:
Indeed. Oh well, I'm happy driving an E46 M3 and you should be happier owning a CSL, that is, if you're not too aggrieved by the lowly lemonade crew and their standard M3s cheapening the brand.

GregorFuk

563 posts

199 months

Tuesday 23rd August 2016
quotequote all
carbonblack said:
GregorFuk said:
Indeed. Oh well, I'm happy driving an E46 M3 and you should be happier owning a CSL, that is, if you're not too aggrieved by the lowly lemonade crew and their standard M3s cheapening the brand.
Check my posts, you'll see no mention of lemonade.

The only real issue I have with regular E46 M3 owners is when they use up ever scarcer genuine CSL parts to mock up their none CSL cars. If they want to pretend to own a CSL fine by me, just do it with replica parts please.



DjSki

1,305 posts

194 months

Tuesday 23rd August 2016
quotequote all
outnumbered said:
DjSki said:
These are totally over-priced, and they are all SMG.

Yes, the E46 still looks lovely, but if it were my money I'd go for a 2004 onwards, manual car in grey with low miles, can be had for about £15k and then add a Geoff Steel carbon airbox for about another £2k all in. Maybe add some CSL look alloys. Then you have nearly the same noise with low miles for half the price and manual.
You should take the CSL out of your Fantasy Garage then rofl !

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/profile.asp?mem...
Yeah I should. Three years ago or so when I added it it was £25k for a 60k miler!

DjSki

1,305 posts

194 months

Tuesday 23rd August 2016
quotequote all
Some awful car snobbery on this thread lads!

CSL is a cool car but not worth current prices in my opinion, same goes for the Z3M and some other lower volume models.

Too much cash sloshing around while interest rates are low.

GregorFuk

563 posts

199 months

Tuesday 23rd August 2016
quotequote all
DjSki said:
Some awful car snobbery on this thread lads!

CSL is a cool car but not worth current prices in my opinion, same goes for the Z3M and some other lower volume models.

Too much cash sloshing around while interest rates are low.
Great. That's that settled then. Night all.

Slarty Bartfast

251 posts

209 months

Wednesday 24th August 2016
quotequote all
100% agree
They are very good cars, but still not perfect in my eyes. No matter what anybody says, the gearbox is still a major negative, standard brakes need upgrading (most already have) along with the suspension if they have done a lot of track work.

If I want a usable fast road/track day car, a standard manual with brakes, suspension and bushes upgraded, plus some weight loss will give you basically the same car.

Much better value in my eyes just lacking the rarity value.

DjSki said:
These are totally over-priced, and they are all SMG.

Yes, the E46 still looks lovely, but if it were my money I'd go for a 2004 onwards, manual car in grey with low miles, can be had for about £15k and then add a Geoff Steel carbon airbox for about another £2k all in. Maybe add some CSL look alloys. Then you have nearly the same noise with low miles for half the price and manual.

My personal view is that asset prices are too high and we are just waiting for the correction, however many will disagree.

Leins

9,402 posts

147 months

Wednesday 24th August 2016
quotequote all
Very different to a standard M3 IMO, the whole feel and nature of the car is on a different level. The main problem with CSLs these days isn't the gearbox (I thought it really suited the car myself), or the subframe or Vanos or anything else that can be resolved as a preventative measure. It's the values and all the investment talk, and how people just aren't using these cars anymore as they were intended to be

I had mine for 5 years, and although I'm not into track days I did use it for road-trips and then quite a bit of B-road weekend driving also. As such, I found it one hell of an exciting car to drive, and there are many well-documented reasons for that above and beyond the noise it makes. If I was to pin-point one area where the car is somewhat lacking, it would actually be the steering, which is a little lacking in that lovely feedback you get from older BMWs

In the end though, I'll admit all the investment talk and what I can only describe as a guilt for driving it did me in. Having only covered about 500 miles in a couple of years, combined with a big (€10k) bill for various work and another 1200 miles rev-limit at 4k RPMs I'd had enough, and sold it to someone who at that stage would probably enjoy it more

Do I regret selling? Well no, I seem to be one of the few who doesn't. Glad I owned it, had some really special moments with the car, but no great interest in having another now. And although this will probably sound very odd to some people, I find my MINI GP1 more fun to use on my favourite roads. Not as exciting mind, but more fun

Bayerische

244 posts

160 months

Wednesday 24th August 2016
quotequote all
GregorFuk said:
Will be very interesting to see what values do when they hit 25 years old and can be imported into the US.
Absolutely nothing for RHD cars. The yanks won't want them.

I'm sure they will be buying up LHD examples though.

GregorFuk

563 posts

199 months

Wednesday 24th August 2016
quotequote all
Bayerische said:
GregorFuk said:
Will be very interesting to see what values do when they hit 25 years old and can be imported into the US.
Absolutely nothing for RHD cars. The yanks won't want them.

I'm sure they will be buying up LHD examples though.
I'm sure you are right to a point. But you know what they say. A rising tide floats all ships.

oliver1oo6

29 posts

109 months

Friday 26th August 2016
quotequote all
But what about the real question - is there anything wrong with a high mileage CSL? Arguably the S54 is pretty bulletproof. I have seen plenty of regular M3s advertised for the equivalent of 200k miles (in Australia) and still going strong.

I currently run a CS (~70k miles) and it seems to be a solid 10 for what I want, but if I had the money I'd happily take the 'bolemic' CSL in exchange.

If you're really concerned about mileage, a CS would be a good buy if the premium isn't silly - mostly because of the faster rack and bigger brakes. If you can do that aftermarket for less, that's great, but I'd argue the resale value of a CS will maintain better than a normal M3 - so if you do sell it you will probably make up the difference in the end.

I got a great deal on mine and it seemingly has gone up in value by 50% in 18 months! I've never owned anything that has made that sort of money in such a short time. Whether it will remain so is a different question.

GregorFuk

563 posts

199 months

Friday 26th August 2016
quotequote all
IMO the biggest risk to E46 M3s in general, Is the rear floor pan cracking and rot in general. The running gear is simple and strong, the engine block is cast iron so should go on for ever. Some say big end bearings should be changed around 60k though that seems odd to me.

No reason why they can't run and run.

nw942

454 posts

104 months

Friday 26th August 2016
quotequote all
As Outnumbered suggested, I would do a leakdown test too.