Diesel or petrol
Discussion
I am currently in the market for a 3 series msport. I've had a golf which has had turbo problems so I'd really like to stay away from that again. Am I better buying a petrol or are there commonly more problems with the petrol than the diesel engine?
Also if anyone is selling in northern Ireland?
Thanks
Also if anyone is selling in northern Ireland?
Thanks
Had both a E90 330i and 330d and both are good engines, if you're used to a turbo engine then a N/A engine will feel limp and flat so a diesel could be the better option.
Took the 330d from 3k miles to over 150k miles without any faults, so if you do the miles they're fine in my experience.
Took the 330d from 3k miles to over 150k miles without any faults, so if you do the miles they're fine in my experience.
Just gone from diesel to petrol.
Had an E91 325d. For a diesel it was very good. Engine lovely and fairly smooth (for a diesel). Good torque and pretty rapid. At best, even driving like a granny at 50mph everywhere the best i could get the trip computer to show was 50mpg, but not sustainable. With sensible driving and long journeys i saw around 46mpg on the trip, but calculating it myself showed it to be about 5% optimistic and in reality it was around 43mpg.
Great car though and simply immense on dual carriageways. But not so great from cold and doing short local journeys. It always felt like it needed to warm up and get into its stride.
Now got an E92 325i (N53 3.0). Now this really is smooooooth. It's much quieter (too quiet really). Nowhere near the torque of the 325d and really needs to be in the right gear and above 4k rpm to give the same kind of shove. Above 5.5k rpm it really sings and makes a nice noise. It sounds similar to an M135i (had one a couple of years ago) but only about 30% of the volume.
If driving the 325i like a granny, in the same way as i did in the 325d when trying to get max MPG, i can get the trip up to 45mpg, but it's hard work. I did the school/nursery run the other morning and reset the trip when i left home. It showed 31mpg from cold with several short journeys totalling 10 miles with two stops, which i thought was pretty decent. I then went to work, which is 80 miles away and i got the trip up to 44 mpg with gentle driving and sticking to speed limits.
I suspect with mixed driving and a few overtakes it should return around 40 mpg on my commute. Pretty pleased and it makes a strong case to not bother with the larger capacity diesels unless you can't live without the torque.
I bought the 325i for the same money from a dealer as i sold the 325d for privately. The 325i is a year newer and with only 37k miles compared to 67k on the 325d. The 325i has more equipment (heated sports seats, bluetooth streaming), but both were LCI models with pro-nav and both were SE spec.
Hope that helps.
Had an E91 325d. For a diesel it was very good. Engine lovely and fairly smooth (for a diesel). Good torque and pretty rapid. At best, even driving like a granny at 50mph everywhere the best i could get the trip computer to show was 50mpg, but not sustainable. With sensible driving and long journeys i saw around 46mpg on the trip, but calculating it myself showed it to be about 5% optimistic and in reality it was around 43mpg.
Great car though and simply immense on dual carriageways. But not so great from cold and doing short local journeys. It always felt like it needed to warm up and get into its stride.
Now got an E92 325i (N53 3.0). Now this really is smooooooth. It's much quieter (too quiet really). Nowhere near the torque of the 325d and really needs to be in the right gear and above 4k rpm to give the same kind of shove. Above 5.5k rpm it really sings and makes a nice noise. It sounds similar to an M135i (had one a couple of years ago) but only about 30% of the volume.
If driving the 325i like a granny, in the same way as i did in the 325d when trying to get max MPG, i can get the trip up to 45mpg, but it's hard work. I did the school/nursery run the other morning and reset the trip when i left home. It showed 31mpg from cold with several short journeys totalling 10 miles with two stops, which i thought was pretty decent. I then went to work, which is 80 miles away and i got the trip up to 44 mpg with gentle driving and sticking to speed limits.
I suspect with mixed driving and a few overtakes it should return around 40 mpg on my commute. Pretty pleased and it makes a strong case to not bother with the larger capacity diesels unless you can't live without the torque.
I bought the 325i for the same money from a dealer as i sold the 325d for privately. The 325i is a year newer and with only 37k miles compared to 67k on the 325d. The 325i has more equipment (heated sports seats, bluetooth streaming), but both were LCI models with pro-nav and both were SE spec.
Hope that helps.
JMBMWM5 said:
My 435D M Sport with 313BHP with normal driving is giving 42 MPG over each tank full, that is brim to brim, I have seen 50MPG on long runs at motorway speeds.
It goes like stink when i want it to.
It is hard to argue with I agree and when I consider the 640d's performance and it's 40mpg...it makes me realise how poor my 330i is. It goes like stink when i want it to.
The 330i has exactly the same size engine yet it's miles slower and far worse on fuel, its also twice as much to tax too.
Its easy to see why N/A engines have died off for BMW because it's just so hard to look past their powerful diesels.
Obviously noise and low rev refinement is the downside of the diesel though, but it's worth putting up with for everything else they offer.
cerb4.5lee said:
It is hard to argue with I agree and when I consider the 640d's performance and it's 40mpg...it makes me realise how poor my 330i is.
The 330i has exactly the same size engine yet it's miles slower and far worse on fuel, its also twice as much to tax too.
Its easy to see why N/A engines have died off for BMW because it's just so hard to look past their powerful diesels.
Obviously noise and low rev refinement is the downside of the diesel though, but it's worth putting up with for everything else they offer.
Yep but if you like music you can hear it in comfort.;)The 330i has exactly the same size engine yet it's miles slower and far worse on fuel, its also twice as much to tax too.
Its easy to see why N/A engines have died off for BMW because it's just so hard to look past their powerful diesels.
Obviously noise and low rev refinement is the downside of the diesel though, but it's worth putting up with for everything else they offer.
You don't be getting 40mpg if you're using the power. You can have fuel efficiency or power but not both at the same time. It's largely pub talk rubbish - people averaging 40mpg plus are driving fast cars like slow cars so may as well save some money and drive a 4 cyl diesel with 150bhp.
Get a nice petrol engine and don't ever even try to work out your mpg. Life is too short.
Get a nice petrol engine and don't ever even try to work out your mpg. Life is too short.
ORD said:
You don't be getting 40mpg if you're using the power. You can have fuel efficiency or power but not both at the same time. It's largely pub talk rubbish - people averaging 40mpg plus are driving fast cars like slow cars so may as well save some money and drive a 4 cyl diesel with 150bhp.
Get a nice petrol engine and don't ever even try to work out your mpg. Life is too short.
Whilst I hear what you're saying and if I drove the 640d at 110mph everywhere it wouldn't do 40mpg, yet over the 50k miles covered in it the fuel computer is still showing 40.6 mpg. Get a nice petrol engine and don't ever even try to work out your mpg. Life is too short.
For something that does 0 to 60 in 5.3 secs and weighs 1800kg I find that really impressive, the 330i has the same size engine and weighs roughly 300 kgs less and does 0 to 60 over a second slower, yet only musters 26/27 mpg.
Some might describe the 3 litre N/A petrol in a 330i as a nice engine, but my god its outdated in terms of performance and economy, so using that as an example I can see why some choose a performance diesel instead.
ORD said:
You don't be getting 40mpg if you're using the power. You can have fuel efficiency or power but not both at the same time. It's largely pub talk rubbish - people averaging 40mpg plus are driving fast cars like slow cars so may as well save some money and drive a 4 cyl diesel with 150bhp.
Get a nice petrol engine and don't ever even try to work out your mpg. Life is too short.
I have the 435D MS GC at this moment, next week the 535D M Sport, whilst I agree to your comments on use of the power verses economy, I find I use the power were I can and that's not more than a few minutes usually, and STILL get 40+ MPG.Get a nice petrol engine and don't ever even try to work out your mpg. Life is too short.
I have huge torque all the time which I love.
I think today with plod and Speed camera's everywhere and the slow spread of "Average Speed"+ unmarked Plod Cars driving is not as much fun.
Speeding now is being portrayed as bad as Drink Driving!!!!!.
JMBMWM5 said:
have the 435D MS GC at this moment, next week the 535D M Sport, whilst I agree to your comments on use of the power verses economy, I find I use the power were I can and that's not more than a few minutes usually, and STILL get 40+ MPG.
I have huge torque all the time which I love.
I think today with plod and Speed camera's everywhere and the slow spread of "Average Speed"+ unmarked Plod Cars driving is not as much fun.
Speeding now is being portrayed as bad as Drink Driving!!!!!.
I agree with much of that (especially the attitude to speeding!) but if I was looking at a new top of the range 3-series I'd go 340i rather than 335d. Yes it has a lower peak torque figure than the diesel but it holds that peak for far longer and also produces more bhp; by all accounts it's also reasonably fuel efficient as well (probably only 5 or 6mpg worse than a 335d in equivalent driving) and it's in a different league when it comes to noise and refinement. For me the only reason for opting for a 335d over a 340i is a need for X-Drive; other than that petrol all the way IMHO!I have huge torque all the time which I love.
I think today with plod and Speed camera's everywhere and the slow spread of "Average Speed"+ unmarked Plod Cars driving is not as much fun.
Speeding now is being portrayed as bad as Drink Driving!!!!!.
cerb4.5lee said:
Whilst I hear what you're saying and if I drove the 640d at 110mph everywhere it wouldn't do 40mpg, yet over the 50k miles covered in it the fuel computer is still showing 40.6 mpg.
For something that does 0 to 60 in 5.3 secs and weighs 1800kg I find that really impressive, the 330i has the same size engine and weighs roughly 300 kgs less and does 0 to 60 over a second slower, yet only musters 26/27 mpg.
Some might describe the 3 litre N/A petrol in a 330i as a nice engine, but my god its outdated in terms of performance and economy, so using that as an example I can see why some choose a performance diesel instead.
I really don't see how you can compare the 330i and 640d, they're completely different generations probably around a decade apart in terms of development.For something that does 0 to 60 in 5.3 secs and weighs 1800kg I find that really impressive, the 330i has the same size engine and weighs roughly 300 kgs less and does 0 to 60 over a second slower, yet only musters 26/27 mpg.
Some might describe the 3 litre N/A petrol in a 330i as a nice engine, but my god its outdated in terms of performance and economy, so using that as an example I can see why some choose a performance diesel instead.
BMW these days don't make NA petrol engines, but compare the current 335d to the 340i and the only reason to go diesel is for a few extra mpg, or if you've no balls and want 4wd.
ORD said:
You don't be getting 40mpg if you're using the power. You can have fuel efficiency or power but not both at the same time. It's largely pub talk rubbish - people averaging 40mpg plus are driving fast cars like slow cars so may as well save some money and drive a 4 cyl diesel with 150bhp.
Get a nice petrol engine and don't ever even try to work out your mpg. Life is too short.
I've averaged 39mpg in my 640d over 22k miles and I don't drive slow.Get a nice petrol engine and don't ever even try to work out your mpg. Life is too short.
Long runs will get 48-52mpg at 70-75mph... still early 40's at 85mph average.
Drive it like I stole it and I struggle to get it below mid 20's.
moffat said:
ORD said:
You don't be getting 40mpg if you're using the power. You can have fuel efficiency or power but not both at the same time. It's largely pub talk rubbish - people averaging 40mpg plus are driving fast cars like slow cars so may as well save some money and drive a 4 cyl diesel with 150bhp.
Get a nice petrol engine and don't ever even try to work out your mpg. Life is too short.
I've averaged 39mpg in my 640d over 22k miles and I don't drive slow.Get a nice petrol engine and don't ever even try to work out your mpg. Life is too short.
Long runs will get 48-52mpg at 70-75mph... still early 40's at 85mph average.
Drive it like I stole it and I struggle to get it below mid 20's.
philmots said:
cerb4.5lee said:
Whilst I hear what you're saying and if I drove the 640d at 110mph everywhere it wouldn't do 40mpg, yet over the 50k miles covered in it the fuel computer is still showing 40.6 mpg.
For something that does 0 to 60 in 5.3 secs and weighs 1800kg I find that really impressive, the 330i has the same size engine and weighs roughly 300 kgs less and does 0 to 60 over a second slower, yet only musters 26/27 mpg.
Some might describe the 3 litre N/A petrol in a 330i as a nice engine, but my god its outdated in terms of performance and economy, so using that as an example I can see why some choose a performance diesel instead.
I really don't see how you can compare the 330i and 640d, they're completely different generations probably around a decade apart in terms of development.For something that does 0 to 60 in 5.3 secs and weighs 1800kg I find that really impressive, the 330i has the same size engine and weighs roughly 300 kgs less and does 0 to 60 over a second slower, yet only musters 26/27 mpg.
Some might describe the 3 litre N/A petrol in a 330i as a nice engine, but my god its outdated in terms of performance and economy, so using that as an example I can see why some choose a performance diesel instead.
BMW these days don't make NA petrol engines, but compare the current 335d to the 340i and the only reason to go diesel is for a few extra mpg, or if you've no balls and want 4wd.
It just fascinates me how two 3 litre 6 cylinder engines can be so different in terms of performance and economy that's all.
It does underline to me why BMW ditched N/A engines though, because they don't really have much going for them when you compare them to a turbo diesel or turbo petrol engine in terms of performance/economy.
Agree regards the 340i/335d argument and I would personally prefer the 340i over the 335d, only went for the 640d to cover over 30k miles a year in(its a good cruiser but not a great steer though).
E65Ross said:
That's also comparingg NA to turbo as well. The 430bhp engine in the M3/4 isn't unimpressive from a numbers point of view.
That's what I mean and turbo's on either a diesel or petrol engine make a N/A engine pretty redundant hence why it's a dying type of engine with most manufacturers. You just can't get the numbers from a N/A engine unless it has a massive capacity/cylinder count...and then it will still only do about 10 mpg!!
Gassing Station | M Power | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff