F10 M5 Review after 2 years

F10 M5 Review after 2 years

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mcerbm

Original Poster:

111 posts

203 months

Thursday 13th October 2016
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I posted this in the general gassing, tell me I am wrong thread for the F10 M5 article but its probably best posted here for like minded bmw owners.

see below:

When I first wrote this post I was awaiting my F10 M5. I thought I would resurrect the thread as I have now had my car for almost 2 years and think I know it well enough to give an over view of the car and compare it with my 7 years of E39 M5 ownership.

Some of the obvious points to address are the change from manual to dual clutch, the piped in engine note over the speakers, the turbo charged V8 vs naturally aspirated V8, the level of electronics, and if the car lives up to the M5 badge based on my experience of the E39 M5, which is generally considered to be the sweet point in the M5 lineup.

I'll start with a round up of how I have used the car. Its my daily commuter to work during all but the winter months (a bit of dual carriage way, a bit of country B roads, a bit of town driving), I have taken it over the cairngorm mountain range quite a few times over the two years, it has been on track at knockhill circuit and I have also done the North Coast 500 route around the coastline of the highlands, so it has had a good range of driving styles under its belt but I haven't had a chance to take it to the continent.

I'll get the boring stuff out of the way first. It works very well as a daily driver, some people may not like the mpg but for me it was a slight improvement over my old car in most types of driving apart from cruising where it was a lot better. my E39 was officially 22mpg combined i think, the F10 is 28.5 I think? The reality is the F10 is about 2-3 mpg better than the E39, cruising at motorway speeds its maybe 5-6mpg better. It also has the potential to go much lower than the E39 if you push on. I can actually get 30mpg out of the car on a long run, the E39 was about 26-27 max. The fuel tank is also much larger and range is pretty good, possibly 400miles (80 litre tank) if you have the restraint and patience to achieve that (I doubt many people have).

The dual clutch gearbox is praised in reviews as being very good, I have driven an E60 and its box is pretty terrible in auto but reasonable when driving quickly (brief throttle lift during a change when driving fast and it works well) for the F10 its pretty good but I think a manual works better in a few situations. The F10 does change smoothly but its still a computer controlled clutch when pulling away from a standstill and it can sometimes not act as you expect. Its characteristics when pulling away in 1st and 2nd are very different and it is inconsistent in which gear it picks, mostly 2nd for pulling away then sometimes 1st. its good to look at the dash if you are pulling away in a tight spot at a round about, or better put it in manual mode to know what you are getting. delicate edging forward or backwards is still a bit tricky, the car has a mode where you tap the throttle to let it know its a small movement required, if you are edging up to a wall, the process involves, a tap on throttle, immediately hovering over brake with a light brush to slow the movement but not enough for the car to cancel the move because you pushed the brake too much. if the car has just started and is idling fast, forget it, it thinks its at santa pod when you request a delicate move forward.

tech wise its brilliant, the head up display is a delight and a genuinely useful feature that I miss when I drive other cars, the sat nav details in the heads up are very useful, and its brilliant when you have the car in M mode. The speed limit display is useful in town to for any changing 30mph / 40mph areas or just reminding what limit you are in if you have missed a sign.

In general it works very well as a comfortable every day car, I have my car on 20" wheels and I think it rides very well, although the dampers are adjustable the car feels close to the E39 on the softest damper setting, its maybe slightly softer but not massively. I always thought the E39 was a great all round compromise between comfort and a competent chassis you can push. My version of comfortable may differ to yours, I like to be able to feel the road and bumps but just have the edge taken / harshness taken away from it. I generally think most cars are too soft on the road that I have tried (normal 5 series or 3 series that have been courtesy cars). Although the M5 is stiffer it doesn't use run flats and I think it rides better than all run-flat bmws while still having better / stiffer damping. the suspension is aluminium on the M5 which may help with unsprung weight relative to the normal 5 series.

The car probably feels less special than the E39 when just driving. The E39 had a nice note from the engine at all times, it really was a great sound while never being too loud or intrusive and full of character. This is part throttle low rpm general driving. That combined with the manual gear box and slightly stiffer setup helped it be more of an event more of the time in normal use, there are benefits of having a more relaxed M5 and the nature of the DCT, it does come in handy but it would of been nice to have a bit more engine noise come through while muting around and its hard to tell from the inside that its a v8 when lightly driving around.

So is it a faff to setup with so many electronic settings for driving to try and get an enjoyable drive? NO, what a load of nonsense. Spend 2 minutes in the menu shortly after getting the car and set up the two M buttons on the steering wheel to what you think you may like, try it, maybe tweak to see the difference then leave alone and enjoy. To activate one of your m modes once set, you push the button a message appears on the dash to push again to confirm your choice. The reality is that if you are driving along (in a controlled area of course....) and you see a corner which you want to have the rear end of the car more active you thumb reaches for the button instinctively and you double click just like you would a computer mouse, normal car to alert, entertaining, mobile car in approx 0.5secs from registering an opportunity. the individual buttons for changing steering / dampers / engine response / stability control don't get touched, just program your favourites and activate / de-activate as required.

My preference is to have a dry setup on one M button, wet setup on the other. steering is on standard setting for both, I think it feels un natural each setting that adds weight, engine response is on the max setting for both so its consistent, and I think its been programmed well and doesn't feel artificially forced, i.e large throttle openings for small pedal movements. For dry the dampers on the middle setting and stability control fully off, for wet the dampers kept on the softest setting to aid traction and the stability on MDM. In practice I find that I use the "dry setup" in the wet quite often too as the mdm can correct the car as you correct it. The car has a nice chassis and is predictable so it isn't daunting to drive in the wet as long as you are comfortable with the power delivery and have a good feel for how the car is reacting to the elements.

Engine - I quite like it. It suits the car well. I need to quantify that I didn't think I would like it and have never really fancied a turbo car other than to try one for the experience. I have always liked N/A engines with character. I have a k-series caterham which I use in time trials / sprints hill climbs and track days. its 215bhp out of a 1.8l engine revving to a howling 8300rpm through throttle bodies, it is in short an exciting engine / car combo. It would be unfair to compare the M5 to the caterham, they accelerate at the same rate up to about 110mph (vbox data at knock ill on the straight) then the caterham as aero issues, and the M5 romps on. Comparing the engine to the N/A V8 in the E39 I think it compares well. The E39 sounded better in the cabin, but the F10 I think doesn't sound too bad, the piped in sound through the speakers? if you didn't know you wouldn't be able to tell. I have been driven in the passenger seat and had my ear up to the speaker, its really hard to tell, I would almost go as far as saying that it might be broken in my car (probably not). I have been in a i8 and its obvious its coming from the speakers. In the F10 its hard to tell, so for me a total non issue. I read a technical note form bmw on a forum somewhere that said they accentuate certain frequencies rather than actually play a engine note over the speakers.

I would say the engine pulled like a gear down in the E39, i.e if I accelerate in 4th in the F10 you got the accelerative force of full throttle in 3rd in the E39. There is no doubting its a quick car. But I like the way it revs out, it has of course a strong mid range but it still pulls hard increasing in force through 5 - 6k and staying solid to 7. The E39 was incredibly linear, it pulled from about 2k with no change in ferocity (or drop off) right to the red line (which was just over 7k as well I think). The F10 has more character of delivery in that respect. It also has a softer throttle response but not by much and if you are driving quickly its not much of an issue and you can have finesse and meter out just enough and feel how the car is gripping through the chassis. It a very impressive technical achievement and is enjoyable to drive.

Even though the weight is more in this car it is a more enjoyable quick drive, the chassis has a great front end, better than the E39 and is adjustable and playful. On track the chassis is better, on the road I would say its also better, even though heavier, the middle damper setting has a better control of the chassis than the E39.

The brakes in the F10 are non-comparable to standard E39 brakes as they were TERRIBLE. If you think the E39 is the best M5 and you have standard brakes you haven't properly experienced the car. I upgraded to 6 pot AP's and pagid 24hour endurance pads, possibly a bit extreme but it allowed you to fully use the car to its potential. The F10 brakes are very good but they have a softer pedal feel than the Ap's and the car will fade due to its weight and lack of dedicated cooling ducts for the brakes. But on the whole they are impressive.

lack of a manual. tricky one, I loved the manual in the E39, the bmw pedals are setup perfectly for heel and toe with the floor hinged throttle, the manual worked great in that car. the dual clutch allows you to concentrate more on the driving and probably suits this car better. However I would prefer to have a GT3 with a manual, I think ferrari should of offered a manual in the 458 (even if it was a 911R type small run model) and I wouldn't have a sequential in a caterham since I use it on the road. So I do love the manuals and the work you have to put in, and don't like how DCT or similar can flatter lesser ability drivers. however this car does work well with a DCT.

Is it too fast for the road? I don't think so, and it depends on the driver ultimately and their choices. I have never understood the argument some people put forward about this type of car being too fast for the road. Any mildly sporting car can be a license loser, i got my first points in a 1.0litre nissan micra at the age of 17 with 60bhp in a NSL area (not my choice of car!). A clio 172 cup from the 90's could easily be classed as too quick for the road, easily has enough power to get into license losing territory on any country road in a handful of seconds, can carry big speeds round corners etc. So depending on where and how you exercise the M5 it can be enjoyable on the road, its a good chassis with all the electronics off and with them on then it should be fine for most people.

So to summarise I guess I am a bit spoilt by having access to a caterham, I got most of my kicks out of that car, its at the other end of the spectrum which means I probably don't miss a manual as much since I have access to one in a much rawer, quicker, agile car. But for a quick all round car the F10 M5 is a great car and it still has its own character and charms and I enjoy driving it, you just need to go for the M button to get the full experience and I think the car works well in this jekyl and hyde type split personality that it has. Would I want to swap back to the E39? probably not, I enjoyed my time in that car, had a lot of great journeys. Would I like to go for a drive again in a E39, absolutely! it really is a great m car and the F10 is also a great M car but just a different type. It is the current evo magazine pick for best saloon car.

So my advice is to go out and try one, don't be put off by pre-conceptions. on paper i shouldn't of liked the car but I really do now. Take it for what it is and don't expect it to be a exceptionally agile track weapon, its not, intact for me its almost 5 seconds a lap slower round knockhill than the caterham! But it is very competent in pretty much all areas and is good fun with it.

apologies for the extensive review, I had two years of findings to compare!

The Livster

222 posts

115 months

Thursday 13th October 2016
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Great write up and thanks

7500 miles into mine and love the Jeckle and Hyde characteristics , superb allrounder

Skrambles

1,309 posts

263 months

Thursday 13th October 2016
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Nice, balanced review.

Had mine for just over 4 years now (17k miles) and it still makes me laugh with its bonkers power and sound when pressing on.


HoHoHo

14,980 posts

249 months

Thursday 13th October 2016
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Good write up yes

I had mine from new for three years and it's just gone (on a BMW lease)

I've moved into a new X5 50d which currently has all the power I want. The only problem I faced throughout ownership was the M5 always wanted to try and head butt the horizon and to be honest I probably didn't make a good impression with other road users, the power was so addictive!


V5Ade

226 posts

209 months

Thursday 13th October 2016
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Excellent review, this also reflects my experience with the car. The only thing I would add is that the competition package exhaust borders on antisocial at start up.

stain

1,051 posts

209 months

Thursday 13th October 2016
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I'm on my 2nd now which is a new CP model (previous was a 12 plate non CP) and the differences between them are very noticeable. The CP car rides much flatter and reminds me of my RS in how well it is damped. It's not run in yet so I can't say if the extra power is noticeable but the standard car is ballistic anyway. The CP exhaust is definitely fruitier and already performing the 'M5 crack' on demand!

People said I was mad to buy a new one with the replacement coming soon. I don't care. The F10 is so good it'll still be as good in 5-10yrs. And if they go hybrid 4wd on the new one then I won't be rushing out to swap into it.

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Saturday 15th October 2016
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They are amazing cars - by 2,000 rpm you have 200bhp more power than most cars on the road. By 3,000rpm you have 350bhp not many cars at all have that or more power 4,000+ is the madman zone where you'd need a super car to have more.

How does this actual power plant compare v the E63 5.5bi turbo and he 4ltr bi turbo RS6?

ratty6464

628 posts

209 months

Saturday 15th October 2016
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Really interesting review. Thanks for taking the time to write it.

Makes me want a cp M5 now! Are there some cracking 0% finance deals with big discounts for the run out months?

HoHoHo

14,980 posts

249 months

Saturday 15th October 2016
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ratty6464 said:
Really interesting review. Thanks for taking the time to write it.

Makes me want a cp M5 now! Are there some cracking 0% finance deals with big discounts for the run out months?
I'm sure I'd been told production of the current M5 is stopping about now.

Could be wrong but that's what I remember.

You'll have to be quick if that's the case yes

stain

1,051 posts

209 months

Saturday 15th October 2016
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I took delivery a few weeks ago and there weren't any 0% deals.

C7 JFW

1,205 posts

218 months

Saturday 15th October 2016
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I'm really pleased that you took the time to review the car and write that here - thanks.

I'd love to read the same type of review on an RS6.

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Saturday 15th October 2016
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ratty6464 said:
Really interesting review. Thanks for taking the time to write it.

Makes me want a cp M5 now! Are there some cracking 0% finance deals with big discounts for the run out months?
https://broadspeed.com/new_cars/BMW/M5/Choose_Number_Of_Doors/

Full your boots - huge discounts currently, you might have to finance it a different route

edo

16,699 posts

264 months

Saturday 15th October 2016
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Picking mine up next Friday! Cant wait!


ratty6464

628 posts

209 months

Saturday 15th October 2016
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Looked at broad speed and £88k seems a bit of a rip off with no options

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Saturday 15th October 2016
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ratty6464 said:
Looked at broad speed and £88k seems a bit of a rip off with no options
You'll not get any discounts /these might disappear as the impact of £ fall flows into he value chain.

edo

16,699 posts

264 months

Saturday 15th October 2016
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I just saved £25k on a car that had done 2k and 4 months old and is MINT.

Edited by edo on Sunday 16th October 15:06

jrinns

369 posts

182 months

Monday 17th October 2016
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Mine is going next week, three years and 35k miles. Average 18MPG.

Its a Great car as an all rounder, the rear folding seats I got made it better for loading. I've not driven it for a month as a new 4x4 (Q7) arrived which I now find very comfortable (getting old..).with great tech.

I think I will miss it and won't appreciate how good it is until it's gone. Maybe it has lost its appeal but I will add some fuel after work and get the rear's spinning :-)

matsoc

853 posts

131 months

Monday 17th October 2016
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Great review, very informative and well wiritten. I test drove the F10 M5 soon after the launch and it still is the pick of the BMW range if you ask me. I enjoyed the manual M2 I recently test drove but with just 2 doors, poor refinement and little interior space it couldn't never be my only car and as a weekend car it isn't special enough, there are lot of sportier alternative.
With the M5 I would be able to do almost everything my 530xd Touring currently does and having something special to drive through the bends. Unfortunately current high mileage and absurd Italian tax on power put me off. Ok, there is also the skiing season, the the M5 wouldn't be the perfect choice for that but...

Amizade

284 posts

224 months

Wednesday 19th October 2016
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Agree with the review & all of the above - I always wanted an M5 and after 10,000 miles it has not disappointed - I would revise the Dr Jekyll and Hyde analogy, as
Comfort modes = Dr Jekyll
Sport & logic 2 = Hyde
Sport+ & logic 3 = Hyde hitched to the Millennium Falcon !

joscal

2,072 posts

199 months

Wednesday 19th October 2016
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Great review and you really do forget what a multi talented car it is. I've been driving mine in full comfort mode for the last couple of days and had forgotten how much quieter it is at normal speeds and particularly how the relaxed throttle response makes it a much more relaxing place to be particularly in heavy traffic.