Discussion
Quite fancy a E46 M as a classic that can sit alongside my Volvo 123gt. The BMW will be a 2002/3 car with 100,000 miles + but under the 150k. I will be paying around £8000.
Of course I have read about the rear mounting points on the BMW and understand that the cracking of these components is inherent in the design flaw but can be fixed. I would imagine that cars that have been fixed will have documentation that validates the repairs.mWould BMW have the cars that they have repaired be recorded on a database?
In the event that I find a car to purchase that has for some reason not been repaired how much money should I factor in for repairs. Of course I could walk away and find an alternative to purchase.
Of course I have read about the rear mounting points on the BMW and understand that the cracking of these components is inherent in the design flaw but can be fixed. I would imagine that cars that have been fixed will have documentation that validates the repairs.mWould BMW have the cars that they have repaired be recorded on a database?
In the event that I find a car to purchase that has for some reason not been repaired how much money should I factor in for repairs. Of course I could walk away and find an alternative to purchase.
Only cars that had the subframe fixed by BMW will have a record with BMW. lots of cars are now fixed by independents- reddish being a popular choice. There are no shortage of places that will do it. There's no central record but if you have it done, I would expect to keep the paperwork associated with it.
I had mine done using Reddish plates but Deutschtech in Milton Keynes did the work. Got photographed evidence for it. Cost me around £900.
If you are looking at a higher mileage car - get a leak down test done on the cylinders- HGF is becoming a common issue with M3's. mine was fixed in Feb this year at technosport and was around £2k.
I had mine done using Reddish plates but Deutschtech in Milton Keynes did the work. Got photographed evidence for it. Cost me around £900.
If you are looking at a higher mileage car - get a leak down test done on the cylinders- HGF is becoming a common issue with M3's. mine was fixed in Feb this year at technosport and was around £2k.
crankedup said:
Thank you pidsey much appreciated, and I will certainly keep in mind the cylinder test.
As Pidsy said, Head Gasket is an issue, had mine done a couple years ago at 82K miles.
Also look out for:
-Cracked rear springs (common just had 2 more last month!)
-Rear trailing arms bushes worn (Common)
-Milky lacquer on the alloys or them being totally shot! (Around £550 to refurbish correctly)
-Clutch slip - new one is around £600 fitted
-Check Discs (around £800 to replace all round)
-VANOS issues (£799 to put right) http://www.mrvanos.com/
-Rust on the front wings and rear tailgate
-Make sure its had running in service done around 1200 miles
-Make sure its had inspections 2 service done and generally regular services
-Interior mirror bleeding out (they are not cheap - unless you find a used one)
-Check it has decent tyres fitted as they are around £150-200 a corner especially rears.
I could go on...
Anyway finally good luck and happy hunting. Hope you find a good one.
Andy
- Unless you "need" smg, get a manual. Unless recently replaced, the pump will go at some point. Mine was done relatively cheaply getting discount off the pump and fitted by an Indy (deutschtech too as it happens) and came to about £1850.
- Look out for sticking calipers, a BBK is preferable but lucky at that money.
- Exhaust clamps often need replacing too.
-TV's will need updating if you're bothered.
- seat bolsters are often worn and steering wheels shiny.
- shock mounts (I think) can go too but replacements are cheap.
- Look out for sticking calipers, a BBK is preferable but lucky at that money.
- Exhaust clamps often need replacing too.
-TV's will need updating if you're bothered.
- seat bolsters are often worn and steering wheels shiny.
- shock mounts (I think) can go too but replacements are cheap.
krisdelta said:
Even now they're getting a bit old, it's still a very well engineered car once you get past the subframe issue. Really rewarding to drive and a very addictive noise. I'm sure you'll enjoy it.
Our lad wanted me to go for an M5, obviously a fabulous car but the budget starts to creep at an alarming rate ! As it is I have already lifted my budget to 10k, an additional 2k from original. Scanning the ad's though it seems the extra 2k is neither here or there such is the wide pricing structure on these cars. Googling brought up a couple of really helpful road test video's which confirmed my choice as the e46 model. Can't wait to get out there for a look!
Meanwhile can you advise what the parts availability is like, body parts and mechanical. Thank you.
crankedup said:
Our lad wanted me to go for an M5, obviously a fabulous car but the budget starts to creep at an alarming rate ! As it is I have already lifted my budget to 10k, an additional 2k from original. Scanning the ad's though it seems the extra 2k is neither here or there such is the wide pricing structure on these cars.
Googling brought up a couple of really helpful road test video's which confirmed my choice as the e46 model. Can't wait to get out there for a look!
Meanwhile can you advise what the parts availability is like, body parts and mechanical. Thank you.
I've never had a problem with parts availability. one of my wings was replaced at Spire BMW last year under the anti-corrosion warranty - from going to them and having them assess it to having it done was 3 weeks. the wing came in from Germany and it was pretty seamless. Spire are my local dealer and they weren't concerned at all. the paint job wasn't as good as id hoped (its not an easy colour to match) so they took it back and did a better job of it. Googling brought up a couple of really helpful road test video's which confirmed my choice as the e46 model. Can't wait to get out there for a look!
Meanwhile can you advise what the parts availability is like, body parts and mechanical. Thank you.
had the airbag recall done at the same time.
horico said:
- Unless you "need" smg, get a manual. Unless recently replaced, the pump will go at some point. Mine was done relatively cheaply getting discount off the pump and fitted by an Indy (deutschtech too as it happens) and came to about £1850.
- Look out for sticking calipers, a BBK is preferable but lucky at that money.
- Exhaust clamps often need replacing too.
-TV's will need updating if you're bothered.
- seat bolsters are often worn and steering wheels shiny.
- shock mounts (I think) can go too but replacements are cheap.
Some good advice but for one thing.- Look out for sticking calipers, a BBK is preferable but lucky at that money.
- Exhaust clamps often need replacing too.
-TV's will need updating if you're bothered.
- seat bolsters are often worn and steering wheels shiny.
- shock mounts (I think) can go too but replacements are cheap.
The SMG pumps rarely go but the motors do. A pump is indeed £2k from BMW but a few specialists are selling refurbished ones for £800 with a year's warranty.
That said, it is generally the motor that goes. You can get the motor itself for around £360. Depending on how it is fitted (it can be fitted without taking the pump out, but some do remove it) it's not the big expense it once was.
As for the mirrors there is a design flaw for why the rear view mirror bleeds. With one of MirrorJohn's and around 30 mins you can fix this yourself for less than £100 with an improved glass cell:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Even at that mileage I think you may struggle to get one under budget. I know I did and I saw around 5 in total. The running costs are a good chunk higher than most BMWs out there, and dare I say it possibly even the E92.
While you probably know, but in parts alone you are looking at:
Tyres : £600-800 for a set all round depending on brand
Brakes : Around £850 including discs, pads & sensors
Inspection 1 : Around £160 for the gaskets, oil filter and oil using genuine/OEM parts
Inspection 2 : £300+ again, using OEM bits.
One thing I will say is to ensure the valve clearances are done ; a few specialists I know of don't check them unless they think they need checking (i.e if they can hear them being a bit noisy, despite the valves tending to close up when they are checked)).
Edited by SebringMan on Thursday 17th November 15:55
Edited by SebringMan on Thursday 17th November 15:59
I think you've missed the boat. They are expensive for what you get now. I'd be tempted to save a little more and get something a bit different. A leggy s54 has a lot of problems in the post. Read any of the forums and you'll get an idea of the potential issues (I'm a z4m owner so the same paranoia applies). Problem is many an m3 has not had a pampered life...
crankedup said:
^^^^^^
Very encouraging, thanks again. As an aside it's amazing that I can source virtually any mechanical or body part for my Volvo 123gt, that's a 1968 car, production finished about 1971 or so!!
Very encouraging, thanks again. As an aside it's amazing that I can source virtually any mechanical or body part for my Volvo 123gt, that's a 1968 car, production finished about 1971 or so!!
Parts supply for cars these days is very good, My Jag E-type could be totally rebuilt nearly all parts are still available many at sensible prices, apart from new bonnets that are now £7K! but jaguar heritage are producing them again which can only be a good thing.
Back on track with bmw, I've never found it hard to get parts for my M3, the only thing i have noticed is some parts prices creeping up like the rear springs which are now £130 each, when 3/4 years ago they were £80.
you can also haggle for parts from bmw dealers i never pay full price, always ask for at least 15% discount most parts are next day delivery if ordered but many are in stock.
I should have mentioned on my large list of 'issues' as someone else also did, the exhausts do corrode where the centre joins the rear box (the flanges corrode badly on both centre and rear box) sometimes beyond repair as no metal is left to re-fabricate, and annoyingly (as happened to me) the rear box, and centre were not blowing, just the flanges were done in the only real option was to buy both parts and they came in at £2000 with only 2 year warranty and not full stainless. I've now fitted a miltek centre and rear box now, but a resonated centre section so its not too noisy. Total cost £1000. with lifetime warranty.
Andy
tjlazer said:
I think you've missed the boat. They are expensive for what you get now.
Really? 340bhp, 0-60 5secs, 175mph (de-restricted) top speed, wonderful handling, great looks.....for £10k!
IMHO if you can buy a well maintained manual example for up to £15k its the current performance sub-supercar bargain.
tjlazer said:
I think you've missed the boat. They are expensive for what you get now. I'd be tempted to save a little more and get something a bit different. A leggy s54 has a lot of problems in the post. Read any of the forums and you'll get an idea of the potential issues (I'm a z4m owner so the same paranoia applies). Problem is many an m3 has not had a pampered life...
Forums can be a dangerous place, a little like the Daily Mail. If you go onto some forums you will think:-HGs will go
-SMG pumps don't do more than 50,000 miles without exploding to bits
-Boot floors crack by simply breathing on them.
TBH, part of the above is preventing me buying an B7 RS4 ; they make an M3 look cheap to run in many respects!
While the above are more of an issue with an M3 than other cars how long is a piece of string? IIRC there is a CSL on M3Cutters with 210,000 miles still on the original HG. Likewise, some owners have more than 150,000 miles on the car and still have their original pump.
If I believed half of what the forums said I would not have bought half of the cars over the years that I did, and some of them came with bigger issues that half of the pub folk talked about over others. They included the:
-Triumph Stag (Do I really need to go on further?)
-Peugeot 106, 205 and 306 GTi (the latter especially came with a list almost as long as the M3 to go wrong!)
-Porsche 944 Turbo (I did buy a High mileage car mind you, which had everything done to it; I still regret getting rid).
-Alfa Romeo 147 JTD ; it's one of the best cars I have owned!
Conversely, one of the worst cars I have owned is a B6 Passat, something people will say never goes wrong,
Massive thanks to all contributers for some really good advise. My hunt has thus far been confined to the ad' s, I have noticed that it's a tiny % that mention the 'sub frame' issue, by saying 'recent inspection' carried out. At least I am now aware of the main issues with the E46 and they are top of my list of checks.
SebringMan said:
Forums can be a dangerous place, a little like the Daily Mail. If you go onto some forums you will think:
-HGs will go
-SMG pumps don't do more than 50,000 miles without exploding to bits
-Boot floors crack by simply breathing on them.
TBH, part of the above is preventing me buying an B7 RS4 ; they make an M3 look cheap to run in many respects!
While the above are more of an issue with an M3 than other cars how long is a piece of string? IIRC there is a CSL on M3Cutters with 210,000 miles still on the original HG. Likewise, some owners have more than 150,000 miles on the car and still have their original pump.
If I believed half of what the forums said I would not have bought half of the cars over the years that I did, and some of them came with bigger issues that half of the pub folk talked about over others. They included the:
-Triumph Stag (Do I really need to go on further?)
-Peugeot 106, 205 and 306 GTi (the latter especially came with a list almost as long as the M3 to go wrong!)
-Porsche 944 Turbo (I did buy a High mileage car mind you, which had everything done to it; I still regret getting rid).
-Alfa Romeo 147 JTD ; it's one of the best cars I have owned!
Conversely, one of the worst cars I have owned is a B6 Passat, something people will say never goes wrong,
-HGs will go
-SMG pumps don't do more than 50,000 miles without exploding to bits
-Boot floors crack by simply breathing on them.
TBH, part of the above is preventing me buying an B7 RS4 ; they make an M3 look cheap to run in many respects!
While the above are more of an issue with an M3 than other cars how long is a piece of string? IIRC there is a CSL on M3Cutters with 210,000 miles still on the original HG. Likewise, some owners have more than 150,000 miles on the car and still have their original pump.
If I believed half of what the forums said I would not have bought half of the cars over the years that I did, and some of them came with bigger issues that half of the pub folk talked about over others. They included the:
-Triumph Stag (Do I really need to go on further?)
-Peugeot 106, 205 and 306 GTi (the latter especially came with a list almost as long as the M3 to go wrong!)
-Porsche 944 Turbo (I did buy a High mileage car mind you, which had everything done to it; I still regret getting rid).
-Alfa Romeo 147 JTD ; it's one of the best cars I have owned!
Conversely, one of the worst cars I have owned is a B6 Passat, something people will say never goes wrong,
I do agree often the internet and forums can be a dangerous places.
However others and myself included here are literally speaking from experience, it would be very foolish to ignore the actual experiences others have encountered during many years of ownership and then purchase with higher expectations that nothing goes wrong with them.
I think some of us owners (had mine nearly 10 years) who have had all of the issues we listed, and paid the price to resolve them, are simply aiming to set the expectations of anyone looking to get into ownership, i think fore warned is fore armed, if they dont have any of these issues and car runs to 210K miles with no issues then brilliant but at least they can say they were prepared. There is nothing worse than buying something with high expectation, and then getting a bill for £3000 on top of the purchase price of £10K (which might be their whole budget at that time) for what are in fairness well documented and very real issues with these cars especially as they age further.
I dont think the aim of our feedback or comments is to try put anyone off buying, but simply to open their eyes, set their expectations before and post purchase, which in turn may help them budget for the possibility some of this stuff 'might' happen.
Andy
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