So many BMW M2 for sale..
Discussion
Not sure people are obsessed with M2 prices, rather they are looking forward to being able to pick one up at a reasonable price and not have to pay 'overs' because too many muppets ordered one solely in the hope of making money.
Hopefully speculators will get their fingers burned and those who ordered for the right reasons will thoroughly enjoy the car and suffer minimum depreciation.
Hopefully speculators will get their fingers burned and those who ordered for the right reasons will thoroughly enjoy the car and suffer minimum depreciation.
bennyboysvuk said:
FocusRS3 said:
That's more like it. Around £6k depreciation for 2k miles of driving.Where will these be next year? Mid to high thirties?
MikeE said:
bennyboysvuk said:
FocusRS3 said:
That's more like it. Around £6k depreciation for 2k miles of driving.Where will these be next year? Mid to high thirties?
Helicopter123 said:
MikeE said:
bennyboysvuk said:
FocusRS3 said:
That's more like it. Around £6k depreciation for 2k miles of driving.Where will these be next year? Mid to high thirties?
I don't know the exact details of the road tax changes but I've seen a fair number of people on here suggesting they want to get their new car registered before 4th April so some are concerned about it.
Of course I expect my M2 to depreciate and it would be nice if it didn't but then if I'm overly sensitive to that why buy such an extravagance in the first place
Edited by MikeE on Wednesday 23 November 15:33
FocusRS3 said:
I hadn't noticed the spec and yes manual not for everyone .
Funny how journo's bang on about having a manual but the mkt clearly wants DCT more
Yep agreed, sure manual may well be more fun for that 10% of the time you want to boon it but as a daily driver the other 90% of the time the DCT is an advantage. Funny how journo's bang on about having a manual but the mkt clearly wants DCT more
MikeE said:
How much is the usual annual price increase on new BMWs, 2%? So given the £ has dropped 11% to the euro plus the annual 2% increase you only see BMW increasing prices by 2-3% next year, I and the UK economists would be surprised by that I think.
I don't know the exact details of the road tax changes but I've seen a fair number of people on here suggesting they want to get their new car registered before 4th April so some are concerned about it.
Of course I expect my M2 to depreciate and it would be nice if it didn't but then if I'm overly sensitive to that why buy such an extravagance in the first place
In a previous thread I mentioned these numbers for the car taxI don't know the exact details of the road tax changes but I've seen a fair number of people on here suggesting they want to get their new car registered before 4th April so some are concerned about it.
Of course I expect my M2 to depreciate and it would be nice if it didn't but then if I'm overly sensitive to that why buy such an extravagance in the first place
Edited by MikeE on Wednesday 23 November 15:33
---
I think this is right looking at the tax bands for a manual M2 (199g/km)
Pre April 1st 2017
Year 1 - £490
Every Year- £265
5 Year total - £1550
Post April 2017
Year 1 - (£1200 + £310) £1510
Next 4 years (£310 + £140) £450 per year
5 Year total - £3310
That first year is a stinker so it certainly gives the new car buyer, post April 2017 something to think about and that might help pre April 2017 used values. If its a used pre April 2017 vs used post April 2017 option then its £450 vs £265 for 4 years until the post April 2017 car then drops to £140 a year road tax so much less of an impact.
I think the DCT (185g/km) model sneaks into the lower bracket so its first year is £400 cheaper which offsets the extra cost of DCT a little. Will that mean less Manual M2's after April 2017?
---
As for the price increase, I am not an economist by any means but my line of work means I (very) loosely of have an awareness of products that hedge currency exposures for large corporates. Car makers are the most forward planning companies when it comes to this. There was an article a while back that stated BMW had hedges for £/Euro & other currency transactions for 60 months in advance, blips like this don't affect them and if you read this article https://www.ft.com/content/f21b3a92-f907-11e1-8d92... as well as currency hedges they manage their supply chain and where they buy parts and materials to further negate risk.
They do not sit around in Munich crying that the pound has gone down by 10/20% and they didn't see it coming. Even if they did move prices that would then set a precedent that they would have to reduce prices when the pound gets stronger, would be a PR and financial nightmare for them. Particularly in countries where the currency fluctuations are more volatile than £/Euro. Look at the charts, £/Euro has changed 0.03% over 60 months, Euro / Brazillian Real 32%...
Edited by PetrolBreakfast on Wednesday 23 November 20:51
PetrolBreakfast said:
MikeE said:
How much is the usual annual price increase on new BMWs, 2%? So given the £ has dropped 11% to the euro plus the annual 2% increase you only see BMW increasing prices by 2-3% next year, I and the UK economists would be surprised by that I think.
I don't know the exact details of the road tax changes but I've seen a fair number of people on here suggesting they want to get their new car registered before 4th April so some are concerned about it.
Of course I expect my M2 to depreciate and it would be nice if it didn't but then if I'm overly sensitive to that why buy such an extravagance in the first place
In a previous thread I mentioned these numbers for the car taxI don't know the exact details of the road tax changes but I've seen a fair number of people on here suggesting they want to get their new car registered before 4th April so some are concerned about it.
Of course I expect my M2 to depreciate and it would be nice if it didn't but then if I'm overly sensitive to that why buy such an extravagance in the first place
Edited by MikeE on Wednesday 23 November 15:33
---
I think this is right looking at the tax bands for a manual M2 (199g/km)
Pre April 1st 2017
Year 1 - £490
Every Year- £265
5 Year total - £1550
Post April 2017
Year 1 - (£1200 + £310) £1510
Next 4 years (£310 + £140) £450 per year
5 Year total - £3310
That first year is a stinker so it certainly gives the new car buyer, post April 2017 something to think about and that might help pre April 2017 used values. If its a used pre April 2017 vs used post April 2017 option then its £450 vs £265 for 4 years until the post April 2017 car then drops to £140 a year road tax so much less of an impact.
I think the DCT (185g/km) model sneaks into the lower bracket so its first year is £400 cheaper which offsets the extra cost of DCT a little. Will that mean less Manual M2's after April 2017?
---
As for the price increase, I am not an economist by any means but my line of work means I (very) loosely of have an awareness of products that hedge currency exposures for large corporates. Car makers are the most forward planning companies when it comes to this. There was an article a while back that stated BMW had hedges for £/Euro & other currency transactions for 60 months in advance, blips like this don't affect them and if you read this article https://www.ft.com/content/f21b3a92-f907-11e1-8d92... as well as currency hedges they manage their supply chain and where they buy parts and materials to further negate risk.
They do not sit around in Munich crying that the pound has gone down by 10/20% and they didn't see it coming. Even if they did move prices that would then set a precedent that they would have to reduce prices when the pound gets stronger, would be a PR and financial nightmare for them. Particularly in countries where the currency fluctuations are more volatile than £/Euro. Look at the charts, £/Euro has changed 0.03% over 60 months, Euro / Brazillian Real 32%...
Edited by PetrolBreakfast on Wednesday 23 November 20:51
MikeE said:
PetrolBreakfast said:
MikeE said:
How much is the usual annual price increase on new BMWs, 2%? So given the £ has dropped 11% to the euro plus the annual 2% increase you only see BMW increasing prices by 2-3% next year, I and the UK economists would be surprised by that I think.
I don't know the exact details of the road tax changes but I've seen a fair number of people on here suggesting they want to get their new car registered before 4th April so some are concerned about it.
Of course I expect my M2 to depreciate and it would be nice if it didn't but then if I'm overly sensitive to that why buy such an extravagance in the first place
In a previous thread I mentioned these numbers for the car taxI don't know the exact details of the road tax changes but I've seen a fair number of people on here suggesting they want to get their new car registered before 4th April so some are concerned about it.
Of course I expect my M2 to depreciate and it would be nice if it didn't but then if I'm overly sensitive to that why buy such an extravagance in the first place
Edited by MikeE on Wednesday 23 November 15:33
---
I think this is right looking at the tax bands for a manual M2 (199g/km)
Pre April 1st 2017
Year 1 - £490
Every Year- £265
5 Year total - £1550
Post April 2017
Year 1 - (£1200 + £310) £1510
Next 4 years (£310 + £140) £450 per year
5 Year total - £3310
That first year is a stinker so it certainly gives the new car buyer, post April 2017 something to think about and that might help pre April 2017 used values. If its a used pre April 2017 vs used post April 2017 option then its £450 vs £265 for 4 years until the post April 2017 car then drops to £140 a year road tax so much less of an impact.
I think the DCT (185g/km) model sneaks into the lower bracket so its first year is £400 cheaper which offsets the extra cost of DCT a little. Will that mean less Manual M2's after April 2017?
---
As for the price increase, I am not an economist by any means but my line of work means I (very) loosely of have an awareness of products that hedge currency exposures for large corporates. Car makers are the most forward planning companies when it comes to this. There was an article a while back that stated BMW had hedges for £/Euro & other currency transactions for 60 months in advance, blips like this don't affect them and if you read this article https://www.ft.com/content/f21b3a92-f907-11e1-8d92... as well as currency hedges they manage their supply chain and where they buy parts and materials to further negate risk.
They do not sit around in Munich crying that the pound has gone down by 10/20% and they didn't see it coming. Even if they did move prices that would then set a precedent that they would have to reduce prices when the pound gets stronger, would be a PR and financial nightmare for them. Particularly in countries where the currency fluctuations are more volatile than £/Euro. Look at the charts, £/Euro has changed 0.03% over 60 months, Euro / Brazillian Real 32%...
Edited by PetrolBreakfast on Wednesday 23 November 20:51
So if I buy any new car prior to April 17 I'll pay the higher rate of road tax at the time and going forward as opposed to waiting post April and paying less or other way round ? And how about buying used car prior to April 17?
Tks
FocusRS3 said:
MikeE said:
PetrolBreakfast said:
MikeE said:
How much is the usual annual price increase on new BMWs, 2%? So given the £ has dropped 11% to the euro plus the annual 2% increase you only see BMW increasing prices by 2-3% next year, I and the UK economists would be surprised by that I think.
I don't know the exact details of the road tax changes but I've seen a fair number of people on here suggesting they want to get their new car registered before 4th April so some are concerned about it.
Of course I expect my M2 to depreciate and it would be nice if it didn't but then if I'm overly sensitive to that why buy such an extravagance in the first place
In a previous thread I mentioned these numbers for the car taxI don't know the exact details of the road tax changes but I've seen a fair number of people on here suggesting they want to get their new car registered before 4th April so some are concerned about it.
Of course I expect my M2 to depreciate and it would be nice if it didn't but then if I'm overly sensitive to that why buy such an extravagance in the first place
Edited by MikeE on Wednesday 23 November 15:33
---
I think this is right looking at the tax bands for a manual M2 (199g/km)
Pre April 1st 2017
Year 1 - £490
Every Year- £265
5 Year total - £1550
Post April 2017
Year 1 - (£1200 + £310) £1510
Next 4 years (£310 + £140) £450 per year
5 Year total - £3310
That first year is a stinker so it certainly gives the new car buyer, post April 2017 something to think about and that might help pre April 2017 used values. If its a used pre April 2017 vs used post April 2017 option then its £450 vs £265 for 4 years until the post April 2017 car then drops to £140 a year road tax so much less of an impact.
I think the DCT (185g/km) model sneaks into the lower bracket so its first year is £400 cheaper which offsets the extra cost of DCT a little. Will that mean less Manual M2's after April 2017?
---
As for the price increase, I am not an economist by any means but my line of work means I (very) loosely of have an awareness of products that hedge currency exposures for large corporates. Car makers are the most forward planning companies when it comes to this. There was an article a while back that stated BMW had hedges for £/Euro & other currency transactions for 60 months in advance, blips like this don't affect them and if you read this article https://www.ft.com/content/f21b3a92-f907-11e1-8d92... as well as currency hedges they manage their supply chain and where they buy parts and materials to further negate risk.
They do not sit around in Munich crying that the pound has gone down by 10/20% and they didn't see it coming. Even if they did move prices that would then set a precedent that they would have to reduce prices when the pound gets stronger, would be a PR and financial nightmare for them. Particularly in countries where the currency fluctuations are more volatile than £/Euro. Look at the charts, £/Euro has changed 0.03% over 60 months, Euro / Brazillian Real 32%...
Edited by PetrolBreakfast on Wednesday 23 November 20:51
So if I buy any new car prior to April 17 I'll pay the higher rate of road tax at the time and going forward as opposed to waiting post April and paying less or other way round ? And how about buying used car prior to April 17?
Tks
So they'll be an incentive to register your new M2 before 4th April, and if buying a used M2 later next year it will be cheaper (on road tax) to buy one prior to 4th April.
MikeE said:
FocusRS3 said:
MikeE said:
PetrolBreakfast said:
MikeE said:
How much is the usual annual price increase on new BMWs, 2%? So given the £ has dropped 11% to the euro plus the annual 2% increase you only see BMW increasing prices by 2-3% next year, I and the UK economists would be surprised by that I think.
I don't know the exact details of the road tax changes but I've seen a fair number of people on here suggesting they want to get their new car registered before 4th April so some are concerned about it.
Of course I expect my M2 to depreciate and it would be nice if it didn't but then if I'm overly sensitive to that why buy such an extravagance in the first place
In a previous thread I mentioned these numbers for the car taxI don't know the exact details of the road tax changes but I've seen a fair number of people on here suggesting they want to get their new car registered before 4th April so some are concerned about it.
Of course I expect my M2 to depreciate and it would be nice if it didn't but then if I'm overly sensitive to that why buy such an extravagance in the first place
Edited by MikeE on Wednesday 23 November 15:33
---
I think this is right looking at the tax bands for a manual M2 (199g/km)
Pre April 1st 2017
Year 1 - £490
Every Year- £265
5 Year total - £1550
Post April 2017
Year 1 - (£1200 + £310) £1510
Next 4 years (£310 + £140) £450 per year
5 Year total - £3310
That first year is a stinker so it certainly gives the new car buyer, post April 2017 something to think about and that might help pre April 2017 used values. If its a used pre April 2017 vs used post April 2017 option then its £450 vs £265 for 4 years until the post April 2017 car then drops to £140 a year road tax so much less of an impact.
I think the DCT (185g/km) model sneaks into the lower bracket so its first year is £400 cheaper which offsets the extra cost of DCT a little. Will that mean less Manual M2's after April 2017?
---
As for the price increase, I am not an economist by any means but my line of work means I (very) loosely of have an awareness of products that hedge currency exposures for large corporates. Car makers are the most forward planning companies when it comes to this. There was an article a while back that stated BMW had hedges for £/Euro & other currency transactions for 60 months in advance, blips like this don't affect them and if you read this article https://www.ft.com/content/f21b3a92-f907-11e1-8d92... as well as currency hedges they manage their supply chain and where they buy parts and materials to further negate risk.
They do not sit around in Munich crying that the pound has gone down by 10/20% and they didn't see it coming. Even if they did move prices that would then set a precedent that they would have to reduce prices when the pound gets stronger, would be a PR and financial nightmare for them. Particularly in countries where the currency fluctuations are more volatile than £/Euro. Look at the charts, £/Euro has changed 0.03% over 60 months, Euro / Brazillian Real 32%...
Edited by PetrolBreakfast on Wednesday 23 November 20:51
So if I buy any new car prior to April 17 I'll pay the higher rate of road tax at the time and going forward as opposed to waiting post April and paying less or other way round ? And how about buying used car prior to April 17?
Tks
So they'll be an incentive to register your new M2 before 4th April, and if buying a used M2 later next year it will be cheaper (on road tax) to buy one prior to 4th April.
Had mind set on an M140 but now thinking M2 given park lane say they can get me one at list but no discount of course through the likes of coast to coast .
1m still appealing too
FocusRS3 said:
Gotcha cheers mike hopefully get a new at prior to April then.
Had mind set on an M140 but now thinking M2 given park lane say they can get me one at list but no discount of course through the likes of coast to coast .
1m still appealing too
After seeing your comment in another thread, I'd recommend you steer clear of the M140i. Even though I've not tried one it is clear that the M135i and M140i aren't a patch on a real M car and if you're looking for proper M car thrills, any lesser car will be disappointing. I can't tell you how slow, refined and dull an F80 M3 makes an M135i feel.Had mind set on an M140 but now thinking M2 given park lane say they can get me one at list but no discount of course through the likes of coast to coast .
1m still appealing too
Andy OH said:
bennyboysvuk said:
That's more like it. Around £6k depreciation for 2k miles of driving.
Where will these be next year? Mid to high thirties?
Isn't £42,995 just under list price for a basic manual car. Unless you know the exact spec of this car how is that £6K depreciation? More like £1-£2K depreciation. Where will these be next year? Mid to high thirties?
Edited by Andy OH on Wednesday 23 November 12:06
bennyboysvuk said:
After seeing your comment in another thread, I'd recommend you steer clear of the M140i. Even though I've not tried one it is clear that the M135i and M140i aren't a patch on a real M car and if you're looking for proper M car thrills, any lesser car will be disappointing. I can't tell you how slow, refined and dull an F80 M3 makes an M135i feel.
Interesting Tks for post . I'll give it all some more thought although 0-62 in 4.6 isn't dull and with no LSD it's going to be lively I'd have thought .
Tks Benny
bennyboysvuk said:
Andy OH said:
bennyboysvuk said:
That's more like it. Around £6k depreciation for 2k miles of driving.
Where will these be next year? Mid to high thirties?
Isn't £42,995 just under list price for a basic manual car. Unless you know the exact spec of this car how is that £6K depreciation? More like £1-£2K depreciation. Where will these be next year? Mid to high thirties?
Edited by Andy OH on Wednesday 23 November 12:06
£49K is indeed easily achieved with the DCT gearbox and a couple of options as DCT is £2,645 on it's own which makes the the car and just that gearbox £46,580. The M2 I've ordered is just over £50K
Andy OH said:
bennyboysvuk said:
Andy OH said:
bennyboysvuk said:
That's more like it. Around £6k depreciation for 2k miles of driving.
Where will these be next year? Mid to high thirties?
Isn't £42,995 just under list price for a basic manual car. Unless you know the exact spec of this car how is that £6K depreciation? More like £1-£2K depreciation. Where will these be next year? Mid to high thirties?
Edited by Andy OH on Wednesday 23 November 12:06
£49K is indeed easily achieved with the DCT gearbox and a couple of options as DCT is £2,645 on it's own which makes the the car and just that gearbox £46,580. The M2 I've ordered is just over £50K
FocusRS3 said:
Interesting Tks for post .
I'll give it all some more thought although 0-62 in 4.6 isn't dull and with no LSD it's going to be lively I'd have thought .
Tks Benny
0-62 does get boring so the other things the car can do provide the interest, but with no LSD, it's just annoying. Where the M3 is either digging in and getting traction or producing a fantastic power slide, the M135i/M140i is either showing the TC light or bucking around with the rear brakes trying to stop the inside wheel from spinning up. Wet T-junctions are tiresome in the M135i by comparison too. To provide more rear traction, BMW fit thinner ARBs so the car can roll more without lifting the inside wheel, so you get an in-precise body-rolling sensation too. The fake sound of the M3 I drove sounded better (and much louder) than the fake sound of my car too, so straight line stuff is still more interesting in the M. All that said, some people love the M135i/M140i for their GT nature and if you are after a good value GT car with good fuel consumption then it might fit the bill.I'll give it all some more thought although 0-62 in 4.6 isn't dull and with no LSD it's going to be lively I'd have thought .
Tks Benny
Good luck in your search for whichever one you choose.
bennyboysvuk said:
FocusRS3 said:
Interesting Tks for post .
I'll give it all some more thought although 0-62 in 4.6 isn't dull and with no LSD it's going to be lively I'd have thought .
Tks Benny
0-62 does get boring so the other things the car can do provide the interest, but with no LSD, it's just annoying. Where the M3 is either digging in and getting traction or producing a fantastic power slide, the M135i/M140i is either showing the TC light or bucking around with the rear brakes trying to stop the inside wheel from spinning up. Wet T-junctions are tiresome in the M135i by comparison too. To provide more rear traction, BMW fit thinner ARBs so the car can roll more without lifting the inside wheel, so you get an in-precise body-rolling sensation too. The fake sound of the M3 I drove sounded better (and much louder) than the fake sound of my car too, so straight line stuff is still more interesting in the M. All that said, some people love the M135i/M140i for their GT nature and if you are after a good value GT car with good fuel consumption then it might fit the bill.I'll give it all some more thought although 0-62 in 4.6 isn't dull and with no LSD it's going to be lively I'd have thought .
Tks Benny
Good luck in your search for whichever one you choose.
Just checked Pistonheads marketplace (80+) & Autotrader (100+); surprised to see the high number of M2 available for sale. Most of them are low mileage (even delivery mileage examples from 2016)
If I am not wrong total allocation was around 1900 cars for UK - I might be wrong but I don't think I am far off.
Just wanted to hear out what do you think about the high number of examples are on sale and the possible effect on the value of the car down the line?
If I am not wrong total allocation was around 1900 cars for UK - I might be wrong but I don't think I am far off.
Just wanted to hear out what do you think about the high number of examples are on sale and the possible effect on the value of the car down the line?
vpr said:
Why not?
Of course they will hold better
Agreed....not sure why people keep banging on about "could have had an M4/3 for the same dough"
They're different cars. My woman has an M3 and my daughter an M2. M2 win hands down for me.
Wake up they aint selling, dealerships are chock full of them.Of course they will hold better
Agreed....not sure why people keep banging on about "could have had an M4/3 for the same dough"
They're different cars. My woman has an M3 and my daughter an M2. M2 win hands down for me.
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