Just swapped 996 turbo for e90 m3
Discussion
Hi folks,
Just picked up a nice manual e90, having sold the 911 (more space needed for family trips). I tried a 997.2s, b7rs4, and many others but the m3 was the only one as remotely exciting as the turbo. And far more fun to drive most of the time.
It has the m performance exhaust which sounds amazing at all speeds - love it!
First driving impressions on these past cold damp days?
Lairy!
I've become used to the 4wd of the turbo and have been shocked a couple of times by the rear end stepping out in 3rd on damp roads (dsc on)! It's did this in a straight line on a motorway slip road this morning - damp cold but not icy.
It has ps2s at the rear and they've 30% left - is this behaviour normal (and I just need to adjust) or should it be more stable?
Cheers
James
Just picked up a nice manual e90, having sold the 911 (more space needed for family trips). I tried a 997.2s, b7rs4, and many others but the m3 was the only one as remotely exciting as the turbo. And far more fun to drive most of the time.
It has the m performance exhaust which sounds amazing at all speeds - love it!
First driving impressions on these past cold damp days?
Lairy!
I've become used to the 4wd of the turbo and have been shocked a couple of times by the rear end stepping out in 3rd on damp roads (dsc on)! It's did this in a straight line on a motorway slip road this morning - damp cold but not icy.
It has ps2s at the rear and they've 30% left - is this behaviour normal (and I just need to adjust) or should it be more stable?
Cheers
James
Sadly its that time of year where traction can be an issue if you get on the throttle too hard.
Michelin Pilot Super Sports are the best tyres for this car - but even they won't make a lot of difference in current slimy road conditions.
You can't get 911 (big weight over the rear wheels) levels of traction but on the plus side if it does slide you can pull it back much easier.
Its DSC on and DCT at S3 until springtime...when the car is transformed driving on warm dry roads.
Michelin Pilot Super Sports are the best tyres for this car - but even they won't make a lot of difference in current slimy road conditions.
You can't get 911 (big weight over the rear wheels) levels of traction but on the plus side if it does slide you can pull it back much easier.
Its DSC on and DCT at S3 until springtime...when the car is transformed driving on warm dry roads.
Thanks, most encouraging. I think I have to relearn smooth throttle driving - looking forward to it as part of the reason I sold the turbo was that it was too good!
The third gear rear end swerve while dead straight did surprise me though - I though dead ahead should be pretty solid. But then again it was pretty cold.
Cheers
James
The third gear rear end swerve while dead straight did surprise me though - I though dead ahead should be pretty solid. But then again it was pretty cold.
Cheers
James
This thread might be of interest.
http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showthread.php?t=164...
Its just a few things I think may help a new owner.
http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showthread.php?t=164...
Its just a few things I think may help a new owner.
Edited by Max Maxasson on Monday 5th December 09:53
Lordjimimac said:
Thanks, most encouraging. I think I have to relearn smooth throttle driving - looking forward to it as part of the reason I sold the turbo was that it was too good!
The third gear rear end swerve while dead straight did surprise me though - I though dead ahead should be pretty solid. But then again it was pretty cold.
Cheers
James
Were the tyres still cold? Are you sure you still have 30% wear left?The third gear rear end swerve while dead straight did surprise me though - I though dead ahead should be pretty solid. But then again it was pretty cold.
Cheers
James
Lordjimimac said:
Thanks for the link - very helpful
Yes and yes to the tyres question - although I just took a look and noticed one is definateoy more worn than the other (rhs at 30% Lhs at 15-20%). That's not going to help matters! I'll get a new pair methinks.
Even my lowly M135i began to spin up in 5th gear with some throttle application on a (large) roundabout recently so I think regardless of tyres, it's just the conditions. My MPSS have done about 1000 miles so far.Yes and yes to the tyres question - although I just took a look and noticed one is definateoy more worn than the other (rhs at 30% Lhs at 15-20%). That's not going to help matters! I'll get a new pair methinks.
Interesting to hear your thoughts on the E90 being more fun in general than the 996T. I fancy a 996 C2, which I hope would be quite characterful during daily driving, but the attraction of the E92 and E46 M3 is still quite strong for me too.
996tt power delivery is stunning - and in slimy winter roads the handling is simply amazing - fun, awesome, and majestic.
In dry roads though its too fast, and too good for the roads. It only gets exciting when you are going very, very fast, and the power delivery is either full beans or not that exciting. Not great fun at slow speeds (although it always felt so special to be in). The steering is amazingly good in the 996tt - better than the m3 for sure. And of course it was a lot more special to look at and own.
Im sure you are aware of this but the 996t has the Mezger engine (same as gt1,2,3). Its very strong. Other 996s and 997 gen 1s do not, and these engines do suffer from IMS and bore score issues. Im not a doom monger, and in fact i had a gen 1 987s that was vulnerable to these issues too. But there are small odds that there may be expensive issues and its important to be aware.
Also, on Porshe ownership in general - the servicing/upkeep costs are very very high. Neither the 987s or the 996tt had anything terrible go wrong but they each cost easily +£2k per year in maintenance, and i do less than 5k miles a year. That said, each of those cars did go up in value i my ownership (the 996tt doubled in value!).
FWIW the 987s is still the best drivers car ive owned by some margin - if i didn't need 4 seats id get one one those (probs a 3.4 gen 2). If youve not driven one - look past the stigma - they are awesome.
Happy to answer any questions comparing these cars and more with the e90 m3 - love the banter!
In dry roads though its too fast, and too good for the roads. It only gets exciting when you are going very, very fast, and the power delivery is either full beans or not that exciting. Not great fun at slow speeds (although it always felt so special to be in). The steering is amazingly good in the 996tt - better than the m3 for sure. And of course it was a lot more special to look at and own.
Im sure you are aware of this but the 996t has the Mezger engine (same as gt1,2,3). Its very strong. Other 996s and 997 gen 1s do not, and these engines do suffer from IMS and bore score issues. Im not a doom monger, and in fact i had a gen 1 987s that was vulnerable to these issues too. But there are small odds that there may be expensive issues and its important to be aware.
Also, on Porshe ownership in general - the servicing/upkeep costs are very very high. Neither the 987s or the 996tt had anything terrible go wrong but they each cost easily +£2k per year in maintenance, and i do less than 5k miles a year. That said, each of those cars did go up in value i my ownership (the 996tt doubled in value!).
FWIW the 987s is still the best drivers car ive owned by some margin - if i didn't need 4 seats id get one one those (probs a 3.4 gen 2). If youve not driven one - look past the stigma - they are awesome.
Happy to answer any questions comparing these cars and more with the e90 m3 - love the banter!
bennyboysvuk said:
Even my lowly M135i began to spin up in 5th gear with some throttle application on a (large) roundabout recently so I think regardless of tyres, it's just the conditions. My MPSS have done about 1000 miles so far.
Interesting to hear your thoughts on the E90 being more fun in general than the 996T. I fancy a 996 C2, which I hope would be quite characterful during daily driving, but the attraction of the E92 and E46 M3 is still quite strong for me too.
Interesting to hear your thoughts on the E90 being more fun in general than the 996T. I fancy a 996 C2, which I hope would be quite characterful during daily driving, but the attraction of the E92 and E46 M3 is still quite strong for me too.
Interesting, normally you hear of people moving the other way from BMW to Porsche)!
The difference in traction will be huge, and the power delivery is totally different as you have no doubt figured out by now. Still, you'll get used to the E90 M3 pretty soon, it is a great drivers car after all.
The difference in traction will be huge, and the power delivery is totally different as you have no doubt figured out by now. Still, you'll get used to the E90 M3 pretty soon, it is a great drivers car after all.
yes i was very conflicted and it took me a long long time to make the change!
I had the car the car of my dreams in the turbo - a solid investment - peak performance - the pinnacle of what i hope for!
but...
After 3 years i just needed a change
and as mentioned, the fun factor behind the wheel just wasn't there unless it was raining or i was going too fast.
Im pretty sure ill be back in a 911 at some point, but for now, with 2 kids, i think the e90 m3 is going to be a perfect performance car.
The engine and exhaust note did it. I drove 997.2 gts, b7rs4, and many more - none came close to the m3 with the m performance exhaust!
I had the car the car of my dreams in the turbo - a solid investment - peak performance - the pinnacle of what i hope for!
but...
After 3 years i just needed a change
and as mentioned, the fun factor behind the wheel just wasn't there unless it was raining or i was going too fast.
Im pretty sure ill be back in a 911 at some point, but for now, with 2 kids, i think the e90 m3 is going to be a perfect performance car.
The engine and exhaust note did it. I drove 997.2 gts, b7rs4, and many more - none came close to the m3 with the m performance exhaust!
Shaoxter said:
Interesting, normally you hear of people moving the other way from BMW to Porsche)!
The difference in traction will be huge, and the power delivery is totally different as you have no doubt figured out by now. Still, you'll get used to the E90 M3 pretty soon, it is a great drivers car after all.
The difference in traction will be huge, and the power delivery is totally different as you have no doubt figured out by now. Still, you'll get used to the E90 M3 pretty soon, it is a great drivers car after all.
d. Mine halved. Lordjimimac said:
and i have to say that the e90 m3 feels almost - 95% - as fast as the turbo - and every but as exciting - when it can lay the power down
I thought the E9x M3 only really got going at very high revs and it felt quite ordinary at low speeds to me. Just shows how we all see things differently for sure and I would really like a 911.
Lordjimimac said:
996tt power delivery is stunning - and in slimy winter roads the handling is simply amazing - fun, awesome, and majestic.
In dry roads though its too fast, and too good for the roads. It only gets exciting when you are going very, very fast, and the power delivery is either full beans or not that exciting. Not great fun at slow speeds (although it always felt so special to be in). The steering is amazingly good in the 996tt - better than the m3 for sure. And of course it was a lot more special to look at and own.
Im sure you are aware of this but the 996t has the Mezger engine (same as gt1,2,3). Its very strong. Other 996s and 997 gen 1s do not, and these engines do suffer from IMS and bore score issues. Im not a doom monger, and in fact i had a gen 1 987s that was vulnerable to these issues too. But there are small odds that there may be expensive issues and its important to be aware.
Also, on Porshe ownership in general - the servicing/upkeep costs are very very high. Neither the 987s or the 996tt had anything terrible go wrong but they each cost easily +£2k per year in maintenance, and i do less than 5k miles a year. That said, each of those cars did go up in value i my ownership (the 996tt doubled in value!).
FWIW the 987s is still the best drivers car ive owned by some margin - if i didn't need 4 seats id get one one those (probs a 3.4 gen 2). If youve not driven one - look past the stigma - they are awesome.
Happy to answer any questions comparing these cars and more with the e90 m3 - love the banter!
Thanks for the info. I've done my research so I'm well up on IMS and bore score. I would certainly be after a 911 over a Boxster since I also have 2 kids to go in the back for short daily journeys.In dry roads though its too fast, and too good for the roads. It only gets exciting when you are going very, very fast, and the power delivery is either full beans or not that exciting. Not great fun at slow speeds (although it always felt so special to be in). The steering is amazingly good in the 996tt - better than the m3 for sure. And of course it was a lot more special to look at and own.
Im sure you are aware of this but the 996t has the Mezger engine (same as gt1,2,3). Its very strong. Other 996s and 997 gen 1s do not, and these engines do suffer from IMS and bore score issues. Im not a doom monger, and in fact i had a gen 1 987s that was vulnerable to these issues too. But there are small odds that there may be expensive issues and its important to be aware.
Also, on Porshe ownership in general - the servicing/upkeep costs are very very high. Neither the 987s or the 996tt had anything terrible go wrong but they each cost easily +£2k per year in maintenance, and i do less than 5k miles a year. That said, each of those cars did go up in value i my ownership (the 996tt doubled in value!).
FWIW the 987s is still the best drivers car ive owned by some margin - if i didn't need 4 seats id get one one those (probs a 3.4 gen 2). If youve not driven one - look past the stigma - they are awesome.
Happy to answer any questions comparing these cars and more with the e90 m3 - love the banter!
I've lost SO much money on BMWs in the past that I'm seriously hoping that an old 996 can, at the very least, not depreciate too much during my ownership. Currently, my M135i is losing about £3.5k per year in depreciation alone. I'm surprised at £2k a year to maintain. That sounds like more than just oil changes though. More like tyres and brakes or something else as well. Incidentally, the 996 C2 brake prices look cheap next to the E90 brakes. Incidentally, I take it you've read all about the throttle actuators on the E90?
I do like the E90 M3 and if my other half was a fan it would be on the list, but I want something much more raw ideally. The 996 seems old enough to allow you to hear the engine all of the time along with all the little vibrations, even at low speed, especially with the M030 and LSD (hen's teeth spec) options.
yep eyes wide open on the actuators - i read a reputable refurb swap is £600, and my car has 20k miles - so no great shakes
There were many bits and bobs to maintain on my 10+ year old Porsches each year - suspension, engine seals, blocked drains, rads (weak point on all), coil packs, electrical issues - as well as brakes tyres etc - my cars were both Peter Morgan Inspected before I bought (you should look him up if not familiar) - so they were in very good order. And at least in my experience those were the costs (from a reputable specialist not Porsche dealer).
Awesome cars! Not meaning to dissuade in any way. But not cheap to own (again at least in my experience).
What you do get for those costs, as mentioned, is very little depreciation.
There were many bits and bobs to maintain on my 10+ year old Porsches each year - suspension, engine seals, blocked drains, rads (weak point on all), coil packs, electrical issues - as well as brakes tyres etc - my cars were both Peter Morgan Inspected before I bought (you should look him up if not familiar) - so they were in very good order. And at least in my experience those were the costs (from a reputable specialist not Porsche dealer).
Awesome cars! Not meaning to dissuade in any way. But not cheap to own (again at least in my experience).
What you do get for those costs, as mentioned, is very little depreciation.
bennyboysvuk said:
Thanks for the info. I've done my research so I'm well up on IMS and bore score. I would certainly be after a 911 over a Boxster since I also have 2 kids to go in the back for short daily journeys.
I've lost SO much money on BMWs in the past that I'm seriously hoping that an old 996 can, at the very least, not depreciate too much during my ownership. Currently, my M135i is losing about £3.5k per year in depreciation alone. I'm surprised at £2k a year to maintain. That sounds like more than just oil changes though. More like tyres and brakes or something else as well. Incidentally, the 996 C2 brake prices look cheap next to the E90 brakes. Incidentally, I take it you've read all about the throttle actuators on the E90?
I do like the E90 M3 and if my other half was a fan it would be on the list, but I want something much more raw ideally. The 996 seems old enough to allow you to hear the engine all of the time along with all the little vibrations, even at low speed, especially with the M030 and LSD (hen's teeth spec) options.
I've lost SO much money on BMWs in the past that I'm seriously hoping that an old 996 can, at the very least, not depreciate too much during my ownership. Currently, my M135i is losing about £3.5k per year in depreciation alone. I'm surprised at £2k a year to maintain. That sounds like more than just oil changes though. More like tyres and brakes or something else as well. Incidentally, the 996 C2 brake prices look cheap next to the E90 brakes. Incidentally, I take it you've read all about the throttle actuators on the E90?
I do like the E90 M3 and if my other half was a fan it would be on the list, but I want something much more raw ideally. The 996 seems old enough to allow you to hear the engine all of the time along with all the little vibrations, even at low speed, especially with the M030 and LSD (hen's teeth spec) options.
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