What M car to go for? drive c63 coupe bi turbo know"

[Trabi601]

iwantagta said:

Its really a 2 minute job to take a photo of the interior of your car to prove you arent talking nonsense. No-one wants a picture of you at all, or your numberplate.
People struggle to believe someone changes cars every week when they struggle to spell.
The custard test is a tradition on pistonheads. It has shown many a person to be an attention we.
No photo. Not real.

Especially when they go back through their history and delete previous fantasist posts.

[jonnyj]

Trabi601 said:

Especially when they go back through their history and delete previous fantasist posts.

Don't play fking kids games my friend" and if you or eneybody else don't believe whot cars iv had/got" Don't reply to thread

[Trabi601]

jonnyj said:

on't play fking kids games my friend" and if you or eneybody else don't believe whot cars iv had/got" Don't reply to thread

[jonnyj]

andyman_2006 said:

From my personal experience in both, i would say very little performance difference, the V8 most certainly does not kill the straight 6 3.2...

What you'll find if you drive both back to back is the E46 is sharper, feels lighter and more responsive. It has more edge or thats how i felt, and given the price differences when i looked to trade my E46 for a E92 i couldn't see it as worth the extra money (to me anyway)

E92 is a better cruiser, has more toys, is more uptodate with things like its Nav, hi-fi, and interior is newer looking but i'm not so sure its better built, and the seats i prefer in my E46.

Try both if you can, i had the option of trying back to back as i own the E46 and went to view/drive a E92 at a main dealers, and came away very happy to keep my E46. (this was 4 years ago now)

All that said, the V8 engine is really nice, makes a nice sound and Revs nice and high.

If i hadn't already got my E46 (and had more space!) i would most certainly have a E92!

Andy

sounds like you love your e46 buddy" is the e46 m3 cs worth the extra over the e46 m3 ?

where you from mate? id like a drive of your m3 e46 and you can blast my 2016 merc c63 amg mate

[48Valves]

jonnyj said:

48Valves said:

Slow and clunky compared to what? It's not an auto box and shouldn't be thought of as such. It's miles better than the traditional manual the E46 has. Which is slow and clunky. The SMG in the E46 suits the car perfectly, especially when pressing on.

The CS is a run out M3 with slightly bigger breaks and CSL style wheels. It certainly doesn't have most of the parts of the CSL.

Look whot EVO review said about the E46 m3 cs buddy"

main thing is the cs e46 has got the same quicker steering rack as csl " also revised springs" bigger brakes and 19 alloys"

at less than half the price"

http://www.evo.co.uk/bmw/m3/6324/bmw-m3-cs

I have buddy. I've also driven one, and made my mind up that it wasn't worth the increased premium over the standard M3.

The wheels look lie CSL wheels but are different. They are heavier than CSL's. Many of the standard M3's came with 19's too.

The breaks are bigger but still p!ss poor as they are on the standard M3.

The faster rack I agree is better than the standard M3's but can be retro fit easily.

All the upgrades the CS has can be applied to a standard M3 for not much layout.

My opinion is that I cannot see the value in a CS over a standard car. The CSL is a different animal altogether and shouldn't really be compared to the CS.

[mattlehec]

Agreed I'm lucky enough to own a csl so yes I am biased but would invite anyone who would think a cs is as good to have a drive in mine. They are completely different and drive handle so much better. They have carbon front bumper light weight bootlid lightweight race seats, carbon airbox, carbon roof, lighter exhaust just to name a few bits over cs the list goes on.
The e46 m3 is a great car save the premium over a cs and csl as the prices have got silly and buy a nice clean low as possible mileage e46 m3 reasonable to run and at the price there hard to beat.

[Kananga]

jonnyj said:

y you trading back your m2 so early my friend? was"nt as good as you thought? whot colour and gearbox buddy?

Black / DCT. No, the car is fantastic (else I wouldn't have bothered with the film/PPF).

Reason for sale is an unexpected opportunity to buy an air cooled Porsche which is going to be a bit of a project !

[diehardbenzfan]

Hold on, you want to sell your 2016 C63 coupe and get a CSL M3? Why?! If you want throttle response, why not get a Cayman S ?? I don't care how sharp the steering or how responsive it is, after a new C63, an E46 M3 would feel ancient, you want to spend 60k on it as well?! Huh.....someone explain

[SebringMan]

48Valves said:

Slow and clunky compared to what? It's not an auto box and shouldn't be thought of as such. It's miles better than the traditional manual the E46 has. Which is slow and clunky. The SMG in the E46 suits the car perfectly, especially when pressing on.

The CS is a run out M3 with slightly bigger breaks and CSL style wheels. It certainly doesn't have most of the parts of the CSL.

This.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I semi favoured an SMG over a manual. Initially there were times I hated but I doubt I'd go back. In my 323i E36 I hated the manual in that with a passion ; a £300 MkIV XR3i could change gear better and that is saying something! FWIW the BMW had a new LUK clutch so there was no excuse for the clutch not working right in the E36. Seeing that the E46 is a bit heavier and clunkier I decided it was not for me. I know of a couple of guys who are not a fan of the manual either, with their other cars being Focus RSs and a track spec Clio 1*2.

Drive an MX-5 (I'd say it has one of the best changes for a manual car), a Triumph Spitfire with a single rail 'box or a 205 GTI with a good set of linkages and tell me that a manual M3 is a great shifter .


For me if you want something involving and quick enough once you "get it" - The SMG
For dick length and parading around the forums - The manual.

That said, mine has had the firmware update from BMW. That and if the first owner was happy to own the car for 90,000 miles...

[andyman_2006]

SebringMan said:

This.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I semi favoured an SMG over a manual. Initially there were times I hated but I doubt I'd go back. In my 323i E36 I hated the manual in that with a passion ; a £300 MkIV XR3i could change gear better and that is saying something! FWIW the BMW had a new LUK clutch so there was no excuse for the clutch not working right in the E36. Seeing that the E46 is a bit heavier and clunkier I decided it was not for me. I know of a couple of guys who are not a fan of the manual either, with their other cars being Focus RSs and a track spec Clio 1*2.

Drive an MX-5 (I'd say it has one of the best changes for a manual car), a Triumph Spitfire with a single rail 'box or a 205 GTI with a good set of linkages and tell me that a manual M3 is a great shifter .


For me if you want something involving and quick enough once you "get it" - The SMG
For dick length and parading around the forums - The manual.

That said, mine has had the firmware update from BMW. That and if the first owner was happy to own the car for 90,000 miles...

I will go out on a limb and say i favour the manual! controversial i know!! lol

Of course i'm biased as i own a manual (and it doesn't help dick length i can assure you! lol)

However i'm not a lover of ALL autos, and even DCT/DSG i just find them less involving, i don't deny they are faster, easier to live with in city, and are it seems the way forward. But for me i simply enjoy changing gear myself, and have to say dont find the E46 M3 'box hard to use or a problem.

i will also say in years to come a manual car is going to be rarer and more desirable as more and more auto cars hit the market and become the 'norm', its already showing that in Ferrari 360 and F430's a manual is commanding stronger money as people search for that 'analogue' driving experience not offered by F1/PDK/SMG/DCT/DSG etc etc.

At the end of the day its personal choice, for me regardless what car it is i prefer and will always want a manual, and this cuts me out of AMG ownership and many others cars offering an auto only, but i'm ok with that, and will still enjoy changing gear myself!

Andy

[SebringMan]

andyman_2006 said:

I will go out on a limb and say i favour the manual! controversial i know!! lol

The posts here would make that statement less than controversial;. I don't think there are many automated manual fans anywhere!

I do know what you mean and now and again I do enjoy a manual car ; I wouldn't dream of having a non manual Caterham or an Auto MX-5 over the manual. Years ago I would not dreamed of having an auto sports car.

Regarding analogue that can be taken in many ways. If we wanted a truly analogue experience we'd have cars on carbs with a manual choke, or on Magnetos where we advanced the timing ourselves, but that's a discussion for another time. I do "get" what you mean, but I wonder how much is being pushed by speculators as well (Yes, I can be a cynic!).

Edited by SebringMan on Thursday 19th January 13:27

[bennyboysvuk]

SebringMan said:

Regarding analogue that can be taken in many ways. If we wanted a truly analogue experience we'd have cars on carbs with a manual choke, or on Magnetos where we advanced the timing ourselves, but that's a discussion for another time. I do "get" what you mean, but I wonder how much is being pushed by speculators as well (Yes, I can be a cynic!).

Edited by SebringMan on Thursday 19th January 13:27

For me, it's not necessarily the the truly analogue experience, but more the options that a manual car or more precisely, a clutch, can give you. Being able to remove drive or apply it with different engine revs makes a huge difference to the cars attitude. e.g., corner entry, dropping from 3rd to 2nd gear at high revs, don't rev match perfectly and the rear tyres will be engine braked, producing a rear end slide. The same thing in the DCT just doesn't provoke the same response.

[andyman_2006]

SebringMan said:

The posts here would make that statement less than controversial;. I don't think there are many automated manual fans anywhere!

I do know what you mean and now and again I do enjoy a manual car ; I wouldn't dream of having a non manual Caterham or an Auto MX-5 over the manual. Years ago I would not dreamed of having an auto sports car.

Regarding analogue that can be taken in many ways. If we wanted a truly analogue experience we'd have cars on carbs with a manual choke, or on Magnetos where we advanced the timing ourselves, but that's a discussion for another time. I do "get" what you mean, but I wonder how much is being pushed by speculators as well (Yes, I can be a cynic!).

Edited by SebringMan on Thursday 19th January 13:27

I know where you come from with the analogue theory, and for this reason is why i bought a manual E-type, manual choke, quad carbs, Manual 4 speed 'box. But when i speak of analogue in E46 M3 and cars of this era/ilk i think its having that additional driver involvement when i refer to the analogue part, in that there is and always will be more skill involved in shifting a manual with clutch smooth, quick, and getting the satisfaction from this, when opposed to just pushing/pulling a paddle with a fingertip which to me is very 'playstation' and in my opinion takes very little skill, even if it does make us feel racing driver fast..

Of course there are situations where this would be of major benefit and its not lost on me that for track and competitive driving this would be the default, and it allows your hands to be on the wheel more and you would then in theory have better car control etc etc, but having borrowed a M235I Auto it really was (to me) for street driving boring as an auto, and so i know its each to their own many will rave about the DCT and ZF auto in new M and M235/135 etc, at least for now BMW do offer both cars with manuals unlike Audi with their RS cars.

On speculation of how desirable a manual might be in future years, well for me its clear as the dealers/car makers are 'pushing' auto's and this is clear from the sheer number of cars where 'no manual' option is offered, and yes it might bring Co2 and tax benefits as a spin off, but it removes the choice as a consumer and owner we once had, dare i say it like the 3/door 5 door argument, it will inevitably make the manual rarer and potentially more desirable to those who want them again, it matters not what you want for a new car now choice is gone in many cases which is the biggest shame of all.

For the purpose of the thread, its a shame UK were not offered the CSL in a manual though, which i think US were?

Its an interesting debate.

Andy

[SebringMan]

andyman_2006 said:

For the purpose of the thread, its a shame UK were not offered the CSL in a manual though, which i think US were?

Its an interesting debate.

Andy

Indeed it is an interesting debate.

I reckon the manual CSL is something Steve Sutcliffe made up. The E60 M5, yes was offered with a manual box but to my knowledge the CSL was SMG only.

PS. You can still rev match like a manual in the SMG. Yes you do lack a pedal but it can be done ; I do it quite a bit. The CSL software however will remove that.

I will admit there was one reason why I was recently converted to the way of thinking was after a DN day in a Clio 220EDC. It did prove that we sucked as drivers.

Edited by SebringMan on Friday 20th January 11:35

Edited by SebringMan on Friday 20th January 11:41

[jonnyj]

But how smooth or nochey is the box in a E46 M3 To say the more moden 1m coupe ? wich did drive about 6 years ago and was very close to buying at the time! Wish I would have before the prices had gone off the wall""
Last manual car I had was a green mk2 rs focus and Nissan 370z nismo"" both I miss really as more fun on a sunday morning or dash to the shops!

and there are manual CSL e46 cars for sale on autotrader"" so these are none uk cars? and would that make them less of collectors car and less value in the uk?

[SebringMan]

jonnyj said:

But how smooth or nochey is the box in a E46 M3 To say the more moden 1m coupe ? wich did drive about 6 years ago and was very close to buying at the time! Wish I would have before the prices had gone off the wall""
Last manual car I had was a green mk2 rs focus and Nissan 370z nismo"" both I miss really as more fun on a sunday morning or dash to the shops!

and there are manual CSL e46 cars for sale on autotrader"" so these are none uk cars? and would that make them less of collectors car and less value in the uk?

The SMG is classed as both a manual and an automatic on Autotrader due to its origins .

[cerb4.5lee]

SebringMan said:

The SMG is classed as both a manual and an automatic on Autotrader due to its origins .

Nothing pees me off more with Auto trader than when I search for a manual car and it throws the bloody two pedal cars in as well, it does it with the M5 too.

A manual gearbox has three pedals...a two pedal car is for the old and people not very interested in actually driving.

[Jazzer]

I got lost at the start!

Would somebody mind translating this?

!!!!!!!

[Spoof]

Jazzer said:

I got lost at the start!

Would somebody mind translating this?

!!!!!!!

Not just me then?

[ubbs]

I'm a bit lost too, did someone call custard earlier?

Edited by ubbs on Sunday 22 January 11:06