Anyone had 997 911 c2s?
Discussion
Utter nonesense..
To your question. Yes- a 2007 and 2009. The 09 DFI with PDK gearbox and sports chrono is one of the quickest cars I have owned. In sports mode its a beast. It also benefits from hydraulic streering and on the 3.8 S, PASM is stanadard (auto adjusting dampers).
The one thing the car is NOT is a great cruiser. Its quite noisy from the rear tyres and whilst you can cover distances comfortably, its no where near as refined as an E46. I did enjoy it but actually needed something more of a cruiser so swapped it for an Jag XK...
To your question. Yes- a 2007 and 2009. The 09 DFI with PDK gearbox and sports chrono is one of the quickest cars I have owned. In sports mode its a beast. It also benefits from hydraulic streering and on the 3.8 S, PASM is stanadard (auto adjusting dampers).
The one thing the car is NOT is a great cruiser. Its quite noisy from the rear tyres and whilst you can cover distances comfortably, its no where near as refined as an E46. I did enjoy it but actually needed something more of a cruiser so swapped it for an Jag XK...
I've still not driven a 911! However, from what I've read about the 911 and felt in an Evora, the engine position does make a huge difference. The M3 is giggles all the way for powerslides at most 2 figure speeds, whereas if you haven't got loads of momentum, the Evora just understeered around roundabouts if a large amount of throttle input was applied mid-corner. Of course, the Evora came alive at higher speeds in the twisties as I suspect the 911 does, but for a little rear end slip onto dual carriageways, I think the M3 probably still has it.
I'd still have either.
I'd still have either.
I had a 997 C2S pdk for a day and I would say there is very little difference in performance.
You get way better traction in a 997 at the expenses of some lightness at the front at speed on bumpy roads...however it is not a car that you can easily slide around for fun.
One is a practical high performance saloon that you can buy and service at a reasonable price...the other is an iconic Porsche.
If you can afford the 997 gen 2 I would give it a go, given the ever upwards trajectory of 911 prices you may not get another chance to own one.
If not, the E9x M3 is about the most fun you can have in car, more fun than the 997 and are holding their money well.
You get way better traction in a 997 at the expenses of some lightness at the front at speed on bumpy roads...however it is not a car that you can easily slide around for fun.
One is a practical high performance saloon that you can buy and service at a reasonable price...the other is an iconic Porsche.
If you can afford the 997 gen 2 I would give it a go, given the ever upwards trajectory of 911 prices you may not get another chance to own one.
If not, the E9x M3 is about the most fun you can have in car, more fun than the 997 and are holding their money well.
Max Maxasson said:
I had a 997 C2S pdk for a day and I would say there is very little difference in performance.
You get way better traction in a 997 at the expenses of some lightness at the front at speed on bumpy roads...however it is not a car that you can easily slide around for fun.
One is a practical high performance saloon that you can buy and service at a reasonable price...the other is an iconic Porsche.
If you can afford the 997 gen 2 I would give it a go, given the ever upwards trajectory of 911 prices you may not get another chance to own one.
If not, the E9x M3 is about the most fun you can have in car, more fun than the 997 and are holding their money well.
I'd agree with this. You get way better traction in a 997 at the expenses of some lightness at the front at speed on bumpy roads...however it is not a car that you can easily slide around for fun.
One is a practical high performance saloon that you can buy and service at a reasonable price...the other is an iconic Porsche.
If you can afford the 997 gen 2 I would give it a go, given the ever upwards trajectory of 911 prices you may not get another chance to own one.
If not, the E9x M3 is about the most fun you can have in car, more fun than the 997 and are holding their money well.
One point to add: there seem to be an increasing number of 997s needing engine rebuilds at circa £10k a pop due to knackered IMS bearings and / or bore scoring. I'd say it's worth finding one that has already been done for peace of mind. It was essentially that issue that pushed me back towards the e46 CS, plus it being easier to fit sprogs in an M3.
Despite all that, I still have an unquenchable yearning for a 997.
I've owned an E46 M3 CS, two E92 M3's and now have a 997 GTS so a fair amount of real world and track experience of all cars.
IMO my 911 is considerably quicker than the E92 on track or twisty roads, fairly similar in a straight line. If you compare the cars on fastest laps then you'll see the GTS is 2 seconds a lap quicker at Magny Cours and Hockenhiem short but 1/4 mile times are fairly similar. The C2S may be a bit closer to the BMW.
The real difference is in feel, the 911 is a 2+2 sports car whose handling has been honed over many years, the M3 although a very good car with engines that feel more special than the Porsche is a proper 4 seater. The 911 will always feel more sporty and special to drive where as the M3 will always be compromised.
If you are looking at 997 911's do some research on the difference between Gen 1 and Gen 2 cars, completely different engines with the Gen 1's having some well documented issues. Have a look at the Hartech website for Gen 1 engine info and plenty of threads on PH. Servicing and maintenance costs aren't too different between the two cars.
IMO my 911 is considerably quicker than the E92 on track or twisty roads, fairly similar in a straight line. If you compare the cars on fastest laps then you'll see the GTS is 2 seconds a lap quicker at Magny Cours and Hockenhiem short but 1/4 mile times are fairly similar. The C2S may be a bit closer to the BMW.
The real difference is in feel, the 911 is a 2+2 sports car whose handling has been honed over many years, the M3 although a very good car with engines that feel more special than the Porsche is a proper 4 seater. The 911 will always feel more sporty and special to drive where as the M3 will always be compromised.
If you are looking at 997 911's do some research on the difference between Gen 1 and Gen 2 cars, completely different engines with the Gen 1's having some well documented issues. Have a look at the Hartech website for Gen 1 engine info and plenty of threads on PH. Servicing and maintenance costs aren't too different between the two cars.
Gruber said:
there seem to be an increasing number of 997s needing engine rebuilds at circa £10k a pop due to knackered IMS bearings and / or bore scoring. I'd say it's worth finding one that has already been done for peace of mind. It was essentially that issue that pushed me back towards the e46 CS, plus it being easier to fit sprogs in an M3.
Despite all that, I still have an unquenchable yearning for a 997.
The post 09 cars did away with the IMS and seem to be generally reliable..Despite all that, I still have an unquenchable yearning for a 997.
They're very different cars to drive, and you may well prefer one of the other.
As said, they can become hard work on a long drive as the tyre noise takes over. Worse still in a convertible.
The DFI engine in the .2 is far more reliable than the earlier versions, however they're still not cheap to run.
On balance it'd be the 997.2 for me over an E90 M3. In terms of straight line performance there's nothing in it.
As said, they can become hard work on a long drive as the tyre noise takes over. Worse still in a convertible.
The DFI engine in the .2 is far more reliable than the earlier versions, however they're still not cheap to run.
On balance it'd be the 997.2 for me over an E90 M3. In terms of straight line performance there's nothing in it.
I think it depends what you want to use it for! The last M3 I owned was an E46 M3 from new but have had a BMW of some sort on the drive for the last 25 years! I actually looked at and test drove an F10 M4 last year but ended up buying a 997 GTS....which is slightly more powerful than a Carrera S.
If it's a daily driver or you're doing lots of motorway miles totally agree that the BMW is the car to go for. The car was for weekend hooning on country roads and lanes which is why I ended up buying the 997 GTS...never has a 911 before so it was a scratch to itch but as a drivers car (with compromises) it was the choice to make. That said I think if we're talking E90 vs a Carrera S I think it's a different question as one of the reasons I didn't really like the F10 was the engine...definitely missed the N/A rasp. Probably the right question for me would have been buy a 997 GTS or a E46 M3 CSL. Not sure why I didn't try the latter!
If it's a daily driver or you're doing lots of motorway miles totally agree that the BMW is the car to go for. The car was for weekend hooning on country roads and lanes which is why I ended up buying the 997 GTS...never has a 911 before so it was a scratch to itch but as a drivers car (with compromises) it was the choice to make. That said I think if we're talking E90 vs a Carrera S I think it's a different question as one of the reasons I didn't really like the F10 was the engine...definitely missed the N/A rasp. Probably the right question for me would have been buy a 997 GTS or a E46 M3 CSL. Not sure why I didn't try the latter!
Are you looking at a Gen 1 or Gen 2 997? Massive difference between them despite the exterior looking pretty similar. Especially if you're after an auto (Tip vs PDK).
The Gen 2 C2S much quicker off the line than an E9X M3 due to the excellent traction although once you get up to speed they're probably a bit closer. On track I think the 911 is a fair bit quicker.
For the price/performance/practicality you can't beat an E9X M3, but if you want a 911 you want a 911!
The Gen 2 C2S much quicker off the line than an E9X M3 due to the excellent traction although once you get up to speed they're probably a bit closer. On track I think the 911 is a fair bit quicker.
For the price/performance/practicality you can't beat an E9X M3, but if you want a 911 you want a 911!
andrewturner said:
I sold my z3m coupe for a 911 S (997). I lasted about 6 months with it before I sold up and bought an e46 m3 for a third of the price that I kept for 3 years before moving onto an F80 M3. It didn't do it for me.
That's a particularly short period of ownership. Was it the handling or something else that you disliked?Paracetamol said:
Gruber said:
there seem to be an increasing number of 997s needing engine rebuilds at circa £10k a pop due to knackered IMS bearings and / or bore scoring. I'd say it's worth finding one that has already been done for peace of mind. It was essentially that issue that pushed me back towards the e46 CS, plus it being easier to fit sprogs in an M3.
Despite all that, I still have an unquenchable yearning for a 997.
The post 09 cars did away with the IMS and seem to be generally reliable..Despite all that, I still have an unquenchable yearning for a 997.
e46m3c said:
Considering a 997 911 c2s but I'm struggling to justify 10k more over an e90
Looking for some people experiences.
Cheers.
I book ended a 997.2 c2s with a couple of e92 M3s either side, get a gen2 997 and you won't be disappointed the engine isn't as good as the S65 but as a whole the package of the car is. Looking for some people experiences.
Cheers.
It handles better, feels better and goes better over any given road, BUT at first I didn't like it and wanted to change back but I carried on with it and fell in love over 3 years and 50,000 miles.
They are different and feel different but you soon get used to it and its heaven, the manual gearbox with short shift fitted is incredible and makes you wonder what the hell BMW are doing with their manuals.
The control weights steering/clutch/brakes/gear shift/loud pedal are all perfectly judged you just know they spent time and money getting them honed.
The car was a daily driver I did 38k in the first 18 months sometimes over a 1000 miles a week, never a chore...
Edited by Wills2 on Wednesday 18th January 21:18
I had the afore mentioned 997, PDK for an extended 2 day test drive over 300 or so miles (colleague's car). Hated it for many reasons, just left me cold.
Bought an E90 M3 a few months later and still have it nearly 5 years on.
I'd say the same colleague's 72 RS is iconic. The 997 simply isn't.
Bought an E90 M3 a few months later and still have it nearly 5 years on.
I'd say the same colleague's 72 RS is iconic. The 997 simply isn't.
ndj said:
I had the afore mentioned 997, PDK for an extended 2 day test drive over 300 or so miles (colleague's car). Hated it for many reasons, just left me cold.
Bought an E90 M3 a few months later and still have it nearly 5 years on.
I'd say the same colleague's 72 RS is iconic. The 997 simply isn't.
Two days isn't long enough in a 911 that's zero experience in my book. Bought an E90 M3 a few months later and still have it nearly 5 years on.
I'd say the same colleague's 72 RS is iconic. The 997 simply isn't.
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