F10 M5 - Winter Tyres

[Elysium]

I have just bought my first M5 and have immediately noticed that the engine easily overwhelms the tyres on wet cold winter roads. As a result I have started looking at a set of winter wheels for next year.

Can any more experienced owners advise on the following:

1. It is on 20 inch rims, with 295 rears. I would probably fit 19's for the winter set and BMW's configuration tool suggests 255 width all round. Is this a good option given the engine power / traction?

2. This is the first time I have had in wheel TPMS sensors. The BMW pricing was £1k for wheels without, but £2k with. Looking online these should only cost around £80 per corner installed. Do the aftermarket ones work and is there anywhere to buy a complete package including sensors online?

[F355GTS]

try mrwinterwheels.co.uk however I'm not sure you'll achieve too much in terms of grip, I've new winters on my M135i and they loose traction with ease

[theboss]

I'm running Michelin PA4 which provide much better traction than MPSS in these temperatures and on water.

I'm running an aftermarket setup with OEM TPMS fitted, also staggered but 275 on the rear and they are absolutely fine.

[Elysium]

F355GTS said:

try mrwinterwheels.co.uk however I'm not sure you'll achieve too much in terms of grip, I've new winters on my M135i and they loose traction with ease

Thanks - unfortunately it doesn't look as if they have anything bigger than 17/18 inches.

theboss said:

I'm running Michelin PA4 which provide much better traction than MPSS in these temperatures and on water.

I'm running an aftermarket setup with OEM TPMS fitted, also staggered but 275 on the rear and they are absolutely fine.

Sounds good. Did you get these as a package from somewhere or did you need to source the wheels / tyres / TPMS separately?

[theboss]

Elysium said:

Sounds good. Did you get these as a package from somewhere or did you need to source the wheels / tyres / TPMS separately?

I bought them as good as new from a PHer, I believe he sourced the TPMS valves himself. It all works flawlessly.

Going from summers to winters made a huge difference, and there hasn't been a snowflake in sight. Last winter I didn't have them and MPSS were really scrabbling for traction. Obviously you always need to exercise a degree of restraint with any tyres in suboptimal conditions owing to the sheer power of the thing, but it's remarkable how much better the car is on a rubber compound designed for low temps and water displacement.

[W8PMC]

theboss said:

I bought them as good as new from a PHer, I believe he sourced the TPMS valves himself. It all works flawlessly.

Going from summers to winters made a huge difference, and there hasn't been a snowflake in sight. Last winter I didn't have them and MPSS were really scrabbling for traction. Obviously you always need to exercise a degree of restraint with any tyres in suboptimal conditions owing to the sheer power of the thing, but it's remarkable how much better the car is on a rubber compound designed for low temps and water displacement.

Given the low cost of using tyresonthedrive or the like, i had my Winter tyres just swapped over on the original 19" wheels rather than buy a 2nd set of wheels so no issue with TPMS as retained them on the original wheel. The Michelin PA4 are an excellent Winter & well worth while using for the 4 months of sub 5 degrees.

[Timbuktu]

I would not bother if you have a set of decent tyres on there already. You will be bitterly disappointed having spent thousands and you will find you don't have any more grip, apart from on actual ice or snow.

Any high powered RWD car will be struggling for grip in this weather regardless of tyres.

Have a read of this:

Another tedious winter tyre thread by tyre experts

[V5Ade]

Timbuktu said:

I would not bother if you have a set of decent tyres on there already. You will be bitterly disappointed having spent thousands and you will find you don't have any more grip, apart from on actual ice or snow.

Any high powered RWD car will be struggling for grip in this weather regardless of tyres.

Have a read of this:

Another tedious winter tyre thread by tyre experts

I agree that Winters tyres have less grip in normal conditions than a summer tyre. They squirm and the car does not feel anywhere near as sharp, but they are progressive and predictable.

I've used winter tyres on my last few cars, including my current F10 M5. It's my daily driver therefore I need to be able to use it everyday. The M5 is a real handful on Summer tyres when the temperature drops below 1 degree C, it snaps out when frosty and is undrivable if there is any snow.
With the winter tyres on I have no problem with frost and I still managed the school run when it snowed earlier this year. I actually enjoy the balance on the winter tyres. For me, they are worth it.

[stain]

Mine is running the OEM winter wheel and tyre option which are 19's and 255 all round. It breaks traction very easily due in part to the rears being narrower and Pirelli tyres being rubbish.

[Elysium]

Timbuktu said:

I would not bother if you have a set of decent tyres on there already. You will be bitterly disappointed having spent thousands and you will find you don't have any more grip, apart from on actual ice or snow.

Any high powered RWD car will be struggling for grip in this weather regardless of tyres.

Have a read of this:

Another tedious winter tyre thread by tyre experts

I sort of agree. I used winter tyres on my previous BMW and was happy with their performance in very cold weather, but any advantage over summer tyres was lost on warmer winter days.

I had a single set of rims and had a local independent tyre fitter swap them over. It was always a little bit of a gamble to call the change in weather and to decide when to put them on or take them off.

That is why I am keen on getting a second set of rims this time as I am working on the principal that it will be easier to swap the wheels at home (although the 20 inch rims are massive and I expect it's not as easy as it looks).

It was a little warmer today and I took the M on a longer journey. I was pleasantly surprised at the difference in grip once the tyres had warmed up. I'm far less worried now about winter performance, but will definitely want the option of winters next year as I can't imagine making any progress at all in snow.

[Elysium]

stain said:

Mine is running the OEM winter wheel and tyre option which are 19's and 255 all round. It breaks traction very easily due in part to the rears being narrower and Pirelli tyres being rubbish.

That's the sort of feedback I wanted. I do recall that the winters warm up faster than the summers in cold weather, which hopefully makes a difference?

[V5Ade]

Elysium said:

That's the sort of feedback I wanted. I do recall that the winters warm up faster than the summers in cold weather, which hopefully makes a difference?

There is negligible warm up as they work from cold.
In auto mode the F10 M5 holds it gear until the traction light stops flickering. When I ran summer tyres my car would change into 3rd at below 3k rpm when gently diving away from a junction in comfort auto mode, however in the colder conditions I noticed that the car would hold second gear until over 4k rpm as the traction control was triggered (really not great when the car is cold). I don't get this issue with the winter tyres.

[Elysium]

V5Ade said:

Elysium said:

That's the sort of feedback I wanted. I do recall that the winters warm up faster than the summers in cold weather, which hopefully makes a difference?

There is negligible warm up as they work from cold.
In auto mode the F10 M5 holds it gear until the traction light stops flickering. When I ran summer tyres my car would change into 3rd at below 3k rpm when gently diving away from a junction in comfort auto mode, however in the colder conditions I noticed that the car would hold second gear until over 4k rpm as the traction control was triggered (really not great when the car is cold). I don't get this issue with the winter tyres.

That sounds positive. What size tyres are you running?

[V5Ade]

Elysium said:

That sounds positive. What size tyres are you running?

I'm using genuine BMW M5 wheels, with the square set up (255/40 19) front and rear.

[mikeN54]

I just push the throttle a bit less when it's slippery.

Works great and it's free - but I can always jump in a van if the weather is that bad. If yours is a DD then it maybe worth it, depends on your circumstances.

Try turning MDM mode on, it helps stop the TC cut-in a lot especially at t-junctions, also use manual gears instead then you can short shift as you desire for much better control. I use the "stick" to shift almost exclusively.

We run winters on the van and I did on a previous 400bhp 335i tourer, but as said what they offer is much greater progressiveness when they slide and move (which they do a lot) rather than ultimate grip on dry or wet tarmac. Of course on (rare) snow and ice it's a no brainer.

But an M5 will shread winters if you try to drive it like you might in the summer.

Edited by mikeN54 on Wednesday 15th February 11:38

[V5Ade]

mikeN54 said:

I just push the throttle a bit less when it's slippery.

Edited by mikeN54 on Wednesday 15th February 11:38

Really?

[mikeN54]

V5Ade said:

mikeN54 said:

I just push the throttle a bit less when it's slippery.

Edited by mikeN54 on Wednesday 15th February 11:38

Really?

Sorry mum, that was meant as a quip, the rest of the post goes on to support winter tyres..

Edited by mikeN54 on Wednesday 15th February 12:06

[nickfrog]

Timbuktu said:

Any high powered RWD car will be struggling for grip in this weather regardless of tyres.

It won't struggle any more than any other car for lateral grip. Besides, any high powered reardriver can have as little power as the conditions allow to stay within traction with basic throttle modulation, and for which winter tyres are pretty useful on these IME.

Edited by nickfrog on Wednesday 15th February 19:37

[Timbuktu]

nickfrog said:

It won't struggle any more than any other car for lateral grip. Besides, any high powered reardriver can have as little power as the conditions allow to stay within traction with basic throttle modulation, and for which winter tyres are pretty useful on these IME.

Edited by nickfrog on Wednesday 15th February 19:37

Well it will actually, when accelerating, compared to a AWD car for instance.

And I obviously meant when trying to use all of its power.

But thanks for being pedantic.

[nickfrog]

Not really pedantic, just factual. I don't think 4wd supplies infinite traction. It's essentially about the contact patch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STaximkaQxo