E60 V10 M5

E60 V10 M5

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Slippydiff

14,742 posts

222 months

Thursday 9th March 2017
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Schermerhorn said:
Not really a fair comparison. Lots of Gallardos etc of the time are still on pretty low mileage and the same applies to high revving V8 Ferrari F430s too. The E6x range was supposed to be used every day but they are just too tempremental for that and you're never sure when the next 4 figure bill is looming.
I suspect your ownership experience was exceptionally bad. frown I know of an M6 owner who clocked up well in excess of 100K miles with no issues other than cat replacement and discs. But there's a caveat, it was a daily driver.
Someone suggested they'd buy to use as a weekend toy, unfortunately as has been proven, large amounts of faults with these cars are due to sensors been triggered by low voltage/poor battery condition. The best way to avoid such issues to use the car regularly (ie every day) and for decently long runs.

I'm not convinced the technology was ahead of it's time, rather the issue lay with lack of knowledge on the part of technicians/dealerships. Unfortunately the cars weren't sold in large numbers, so neither dealerships or their technicians became particularly well versed in the car's idiosyncrasies.

As many have found out when clutches failed/wore out, most dealerships decreed that flywheels HAD to be replacd when frequently replacement wasn't required.

I thought my Space grey car was one of the best cars I've ever owned (and I've owned a plethora of GT Porsches) unfortunately due to negligence on my local council's part , I dropped the car down a large pothole at speed, which caused handling issues which despite 3 visits to my local dealer, they failed to rectify. I was forced to sell as prior to the incident the car was one of the sweetest handling cars I'd ever had the privilege of driving. But afterwards, it was less so frown

If I could justify the running costs (primarily fuel and monthly warranty cost) install an auxiliary fuel tank that would extend the range by an additional 50%, AND find a specialist Indy that could service the car pragmatically and diagnose issues properly when they arise, I'd have another in a heartbeat.


andygtt

8,344 posts

263 months

Tuesday 14th March 2017
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Mikeeb said:
Andy, still the Vanos pump/line failure or something else now?
I haven't stripped the engine in the red one yet to check, parts are in customs so will be doing so in the coming months, its defiantly one of those 2 as i have zero oil flow to the vanos.

My Black M5 I ran for 2 years without even the smallest issue, I replaced the front brakes, chewed through tyres and fuel but thats nothing to complain about for such a high performance car.
In fact the black M5 had some kind of SMG failure and then had flood damage cause by the company that diagnosed the SMG failure (miss diagnosed as it turned out) leaving the fuse box cover off when they delivered it back.... however due to the complex electronics this minor flooding effectively made it uneconomical to fix which was a shame as i loved that car.

I will say I loved the E60 M5, incredible car and i did a lot of miles in the black one and thrashed it continually. I just wouldn't run one without warranty as my experience has been too painful lol

Ive put the black ones V10 in my capri project but i have ditched the SMG and fitted an M3 manual instead... I will also be using a motec ecu and ditching the throttle actuator electronics and running them direct, I'm also looking to remove the vanos pump and run a separate system to the vanos again remove that fail point.... I need the M5 V10 still in my life smile

jakesmith

9,461 posts

170 months

Wednesday 15th March 2017
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If this thread doesn't put you off buying one of these cars... you need to see a doctor!

Stever

1,524 posts

248 months

Wednesday 15th March 2017
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jakesmith said:
If this thread doesn't put you off buying one of these cars... you need to see a doctor!
No Pain no Gain?

If you go in with you eyes wide open, buy carefully and factor the warranty into your costs why would you need to see the Dr? If everyone followed your advice people would never experience a truly astounding engine and it would be next to impossible to get a Dr's appointment.

Perhaps you have a bad case of sensibleness but don't worry it can be cured -see a Dr!rolleyesrolleyes

Philv8s

545 posts

123 months

Wednesday 15th March 2017
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The Alpina version is a lot more economical on the fuel with more torque across the rev range and as quicker in everyday driving (not on the track mind). There is a bargain priced high miler for sale ATM, even allowing for a few grand for a good refresh it's a lot of BHP for the money!

Slippydiff

14,742 posts

222 months

Wednesday 15th March 2017
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Philv8s said:
The Alpina version is a lot more economical on the fuel with more torque across the rev range and as quicker in everyday driving (not on the track mind). There is a bargain priced high miler for sale ATM, even allowing for a few grand for a good refresh it's a lot of BHP for the money!
That's all well and good, but for me, a large part of the allure of the M6 was the V10 and the noise it made. Irrespective of how well fettled the Alpina V8, it just won't cut it smile

AW10

4,421 posts

248 months

Wednesday 15th March 2017
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And isn't the Alpina a conventional autobox? Not that I'm a big fan of the SMG but I do prefer it over a conventional torque converter automagic.

IanJ9375

1,467 posts

215 months

Wednesday 15th March 2017
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My brother has owned his for a while now - 4/5 yrs, to be honest when he bought it I suspected we would end up with a history of violence i.e a trail of expensive repairs but to be fair (considering this was a £80-90k car when new) it hasn't been that bad.

The most costly has been needing a full clutch for at the local BMW dealer which looked like it was going to be a £6-7k bill but it came in at half of that in the end, since that he's back to loving it again.

Bought on condition and with your eyes wide open to the running costs I think it's a great car - I've a feeling that kept another 10yrs these will have climbed in value

cosworth330

1,299 posts

236 months

Wednesday 15th March 2017
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I've owned mine coming up 4 years this year. Just made sure I bought one that had already had the clutch replaced and had a Mondial warranty. It's only been in twice in that time for warranty repairs. Biggest single cost I've had is a set of tyres after chewing through them at Bedford autodrome. It uses a lot fuel but then I only do about 5000 a year max. Biggest problem I have is my wife refuses to drive it which can be a pain when we take it on holiday to France etc. The car has never let me down and has been perfectly reliable.

Philv8s

545 posts

123 months

Wednesday 15th March 2017
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AW10 said:
And isn't the Alpina a conventional autobox? Not that I'm a big fan of the SMG but I do prefer it over a conventional torque converter automagic.
Not quite, if you can bag an "s" then the switchtronic box can shift in 1/10th second and be controlled by the buttons on the steering wheel or on the gearshift and is definitely quicker than a V10 M6 everywhere! I'd sooner have this gearbox than a shonky SMG waiting to go pop at amy moment.
I am probably wasting my breath preaching to the converted but I'm a sucker for punishment.

cosworth330

1,299 posts

236 months

Thursday 16th March 2017
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Slippydiff said:
That's all well and good, but for me, a large part of the allure of the M6 was the V10 and the noise it made. Irrespective of how well fettled the Alpina V8, it just won't cut it smile
Exactly this, the lure is that V10 engine noise.

The Alpina looks horrible with those wheels,lips and spoiler. Never liked any of the Alpina styling and wheels on any model.
I'm sure they drive well but I've never considered one purely because I think they look horrible, always stuck with M power cars.

Mikeeb

405 posts

117 months

Thursday 16th March 2017
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AW10 said:
And isn't the Alpina a conventional autobox? Not that I'm a big fan of the SMG but I do prefer it over a conventional torque converter automagic.
Yes it is the same 6 speed ZF box that is in the 545/550 (and many other models and makes). It's has just had a software fettled to improve change speed. The later ones had the steering wheel paddles. These can be retrofitted just as they can on any many others.

It's not a bad box I had it in my 645. But it's not as 'direct' as a manual/smg/dual clutch box. For all it's faults if you treat a SMG as a manual I think it's acutuall really good.

Edited by Mikeeb on Thursday 16th March 10:22

Mikeeb

405 posts

117 months

Thursday 16th March 2017
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andygtt said:
I haven't stripped the engine in the red one yet to check, parts are in customs so will be doing so in the coming months, its defiantly one of those 2 as i have zero oil flow to the vanos.

My Black M5 I ran for 2 years without even the smallest issue, I replaced the front brakes, chewed through tyres and fuel but thats nothing to complain about for such a high performance car.
In fact the black M5 had some kind of SMG failure and then had flood damage cause by the company that diagnosed the SMG failure (miss diagnosed as it turned out) leaving the fuse box cover off when they delivered it back.... however due to the complex electronics this minor flooding effectively made it uneconomical to fix which was a shame as i loved that car.

I will say I loved the E60 M5, incredible car and i did a lot of miles in the black one and thrashed it continually. I just wouldn't run one without warranty as my experience has been too painful lol

Ive put the black ones V10 in my capri project but i have ditched the SMG and fitted an M3 manual instead... I will also be using a motec ecu and ditching the throttle actuator electronics and running them direct, I'm also looking to remove the vanos pump and run a separate system to the vanos again remove that fail point.... I need the M5 V10 still in my life smile
Hopefully it's just the metal transfer pipe that has completely failed. Are you doing the rod bearings while you have the sump off?

andygtt

8,344 posts

263 months

Thursday 16th March 2017
quotequote all
Mikeeb said:
andygtt said:
I haven't stripped the engine in the red one yet to check, parts are in customs so will be doing so in the coming months, its defiantly one of those 2 as i have zero oil flow to the vanos.

My Black M5 I ran for 2 years without even the smallest issue, I replaced the front brakes, chewed through tyres and fuel but thats nothing to complain about for such a high performance car.
In fact the black M5 had some kind of SMG failure and then had flood damage cause by the company that diagnosed the SMG failure (miss diagnosed as it turned out) leaving the fuse box cover off when they delivered it back.... however due to the complex electronics this minor flooding effectively made it uneconomical to fix which was a shame as i loved that car.

I will say I loved the E60 M5, incredible car and i did a lot of miles in the black one and thrashed it continually. I just wouldn't run one without warranty as my experience has been too painful lol

Ive put the black ones V10 in my capri project but i have ditched the SMG and fitted an M3 manual instead... I will also be using a motec ecu and ditching the throttle actuator electronics and running them direct, I'm also looking to remove the vanos pump and run a separate system to the vanos again remove that fail point.... I need the M5 V10 still in my life smile
Hopefully it's just the metal transfer pipe that has completely failed. Are you doing the rod bearings while you have the sump off?
I bought rod bearing ready to do exactly that, once fixed i have to sell it because my right to choose the everyday car was revoked when the red M5 also broke and we have a new Fiesta ST now as replacement.... my wife also wouldnt drive the M5 as she hated the paddles and SMG, hence I'm having to fit a manual to the V10.

I would also not be the least interested in the Alpina version even if it was as quick, for me the engine makes the car what it is smile

Mikeeb

405 posts

117 months

Thursday 16th March 2017
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Andy

Hopefully it's just the pipe and they the new owner will have the security of the new rod bearings, it certainly will be a plus selling point.

My M6 had the pipe fracture before I bought it, not a total failure but enough of a pressure loss to cause Vanos issues. I've had my bearings done since a precaution.

killysprint

193 posts

165 months

Thursday 16th March 2017
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Thought i share my experience. I sold my e61 last summer after running it as my daily for a couple of years and did 25000 ish miles. When it went it had done 57k.

Was an epic car, and as you would imagine dominated by the engine. In the right gear at the right point on the rev range it was quick, and sounded fantastic.
As another post has said buy with caution, buy on condition and realise that the cars when new were £65k+++ and are at least 8 years old. And realise running costs will be comparable to other cars in that price bracket with 500+HP.

It was covered by a mondial warranty over the time I had it , was used for the usual issues, dsc, both throttle activators, a couple of coil packs and front springs. Any claim went through no problem, my local dealer was absolutely spot on and had a technician who knew the cars inside out. Claims against the warranty were in excess of £6k.

I did the school run in it most days, and it never had a clutch, according to the dealer this was still in good condition and had plenty of life left in it.

It drank like a fish, ate brakes and tyres, but was a brilliant brilliant car.

I ran a new e350 diesel estate before the m5. Comparing running costs of the 2 cars, (fuel, depreciation, servicing etc,etc) the m5 was considerably cheaper per mile to run than the merc. Hard to believe, but Depreciation for the m5 was zero, which offset the mighty thirst the car had, and the servicing bills!

Even though it was covered by the warranty I always felt something would go bang (down to reading too many doom and gloom forum posts) and cost me an arm and a leg, and ultimately this is why I decided to sell.

I replaced it with a lexus isf, a very different car to the m5, not as highly strung or as quick, but in the last 9 months and 8k miles, the nearest it has come to the local dealer is the sainsbury's next door, and that for me is a real plus.





Edited by killysprint on Thursday 16th March 17:39

andygtt

8,344 posts

263 months

Friday 17th March 2017
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Yes a very good point made, depreciation was practically zero... My first M5 cost me £15.5k 6 years ago, it was a high spec machine with full leather and active seats etc etc, I searched for a similar high spec car when I bought my second m5 a little over a year ago and it cost me identical amount in same mileage condition as the first!

I am hopeful it is just the pressure line to the Vanos as the pump itself is very expensive lol.

RS250_Steve

149 posts

101 months

Friday 17th March 2017
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out of interest, other than the internet horror stories, how many of you have ever actually had SMG problems?
I think a people with worn clutches complain its an SMG problem when it is just a maintenance one.

having said that now mine will go bang on the way home.

I do really like the SMG box though. A conventional slush box would ruin the car, and a manual wouldn't get the best from the peaky motor. It suits the engine.

Slippydiff

14,742 posts

222 months

Friday 17th March 2017
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RS250_Steve said:
out of interest, other than the internet horror stories, how many of you have ever actually had SMG problems?
I think a people with worn clutches complain its an SMG problem when it is just a maintenance one.

having said that now mine will go bang on the way home.

I do really like the SMG box though. A conventional slush box would ruin the car, and a manual wouldn't get the best from the peaky motor. It suits the engine.
^ Agree with the comments on the SMG 'box, but they are Marmite. I'd served my 3 year 30k mile "apprenticeship" behind the wheel of my CSL, loved the SMG's foibles and the necessity to finesse it's changes.

No SMG failure during my ownership, but a cog of death/ reduction in power from 500hp down to 100hp/"drive car to nearest dealership under reduced power" moment that occurred mid-overtake yikes Fortunately switching it off and restarting it fixed it ....

cosworth330

1,299 posts

236 months

Saturday 18th March 2017
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Got a test drive booked for a F80 M3 this afternoon, kind of hoping I don't like it as it will be a wrench to part with my E60 M5. My wife has never driven the E60 in over 3 years and won't drive it either which can be a pain sometimes. The M3 is almost 3 times the cost and will depreciate heavily.