Next Gen M5 DCT vs 8-speed ZF

[playNskillz]

Hi Guys

Wonder if anyone can shed some light on this. Currently I have F10 M5 2015 DCT, the next M5 will have a 8-speed ZF xdrive set up.

Having had SMGs and DCT an 90% driving in manual mode really not sure what to expect from the new 8-speed ZF gear box. The DCT in my opinion is the closest thing a manual without a clutch and by far the best driving experience I have had with car of this nature.

Does anyone have any experience with the 8-speed ZF and how much will it differ to the DCT? I love the gear changes and the feel in the shifts as an when I want also the down shift blips which plays a huge part in the M5 driving experience.

Any thoughts or experience with this new gearbox welcome.

[Max Maxasson]

I have an M4 CP DCT and recently drove the Alfa Quadrifoglio with 500hp and an 8 speed ZF.
I expected to dislike the ZF but in fact I was impressed...Its not that different which surprised me, it certainly wasn't a deal breaker, in fact I think I almost prefered it!

[playNskillz]

Max Maxasson said:

I have an M4 CP DCT and recently drove the Alfa Quadrifoglio with 500hp and an 8 speed ZF.
I expected to dislike the ZF but in fact I was impressed...Its not that different which surprised me, it certainly wasn't a deal breaker, in fact I think I almost prefered it!

How was it in manual mode?

[MOTK]

playNskillz said:

Having had SMGs and DCT an 90% driving in manual mode really not sure what to expect from the new 8-speed ZF gear box. The DCT in my opinion is the closest thing a manual without a clutch.

But the reality is the DCT is nothing like a manual without a clutch. An SMG gearbox is however, the exact same manual gearbox with a hydraulically actuated clutch.
Since you prefer the DCT I don't think you should be too afraid of the ZF.

[Shaoxter]

MOTK said:

playNskillz said:

Having had SMGs and DCT an 90% driving in manual mode really not sure what to expect from the new 8-speed ZF gear box. The DCT in my opinion is the closest thing a manual without a clutch.

But the reality is the DCT is nothing like a manual without a clutch. An SMG gearbox is however, the exact same manual gearbox with a hydraulically actuated clutch.
Since you prefer the DCT I don't think you should be too afraid of the ZF.

This.
I've driven DCT and PDK cars and they're definitely closer to the torque converter auto than an SMG or manual box.

[w8pmc]

My new car has an 8 speed ZF gearbox & although not quite as quick as the M-DCT in my F10 M5, it's a very pleasant transmission & more than quick enough for the car it's on.

I'm sure BMW M will tweak the software in the new M5 & it will feel as quick if not quicker than the F10. Don't forget the C7 RS6 has the ZF box & i've yet to hear of any owners saying it's not engaging enough.

[Max Maxasson]

playNskillz said:

How was it in manual mode?

That was mostly how I drove it (except for about 30 secs)..it really wasn't that much different to the M4 DCT.
I'm quite the DCT convert, been driving them for 7 years and SMG before that.
The ZF is slightly less raw but I could definitely live with it.
Maybe its just me and when you test drive the ZF car you might think differently.

[worsy]

ZF in my old 340 and DCT in my M3. Apart from the difference in selecting a gear I'm not sure that you'd notice in 99% of driving.

[playNskillz]

I will stay true to my M Roots... and go for the new one when it's released. Hopefully the gear box will be engaging..

[playNskillz]

MOTK said:

But the reality is the DCT is nothing like a manual without a clutch. An SMG gearbox is however, the exact same manual gearbox with a hydraulically actuated clutch.
Since you prefer the DCT I don't think you should be too afraid of the ZF.

When I say it's close to a manual I mean in the DCT you can still get that roll back on hills for instance like the SMG

[Wills2]

I've about 100k miles with MDCT and the same with ZF8 the MDCT feels and acts differently the ZF8 has too many gears for those that like long in gear pulls which is the point of having a torquey but high revving engine, it will be short geared to take advantage of the traction the new AWD M5 will have and to hit some marketing leading acceleration numbers which might be great on paper but not for me.

The on paper stats boys will love it though.

[playNskillz]

Wills2 said:

I've about 100k miles with MDCT and the same with ZF8 the MDCT feels and acts differently the ZF8 has too many gears for those that like long in gear pulls which is the point of having a torquey but high revving engine, it will be short geared to take advantage of the traction the new AWD M5 will have and to hit some marketing leading acceleration numbers which might be great on paper but not for me.

The on paper stats boys will love it though.

Hopefully they tweek it in the M5 to hold for longer.. wasn't keen on the new RS6 box

Edited by playNskillz on Saturday 25th March 04:27

[Welshbeef]

Wills2 said:

I've about 100k miles with MDCT and the same with ZF8 the MDCT feels and acts differently the ZF8 has too many gears for those that like long in gear pulls which is the point of having a torquey but high revving engine, it will be short geared to take advantage of the traction the new AWD M5 will have and to hit some marketing leading acceleration numbers which might be great on paper but not for me.

The on paper stats boys will love it though.

I think 8th is geared to 45mph per 1,000 rpm so don't worry about not being able to have a gone long pull.

[garystoybox]

Having previously had dct on my F10 M5 and now in X5M with ZF, rest easy on fears for new M5. Although both epic gearboxes, the ZF is better all-round proposition (in everyday traffic). Only minor, minor point may be the extra gear to play with in manual mode, but to be honest the auto mode is so good I rarely use the paddles; when you do you still get the blips and kicks in most aggressive modes.

Edited by garystoybox on Saturday 25th March 11:00

[playNskillz]

garystoybox said:

Having previously had dct on my F10 M5 and now in X5M with ZF, rest easy on fears for new M5. Although both epic gearboxes, the ZF is better all-round proposition (in everyday traffic). Only minor, minor point may be the extra gear to play with in manual mode, but to be honest the auto mode is so good I rarely use the paddles; when you do you still get the blips and kicks in most aggressive modes.

Edited by garystoybox on Saturday 25th March 11:00

Nice thanks for the advice, I might go and have a test drive in the X5 M to get a feel for the box.

[Andy M]

I thought the most recent ZF is 9-speed?

[SRT Hellcat]

Very impressed with the 8speed ZF in my 2015. A very clever gearbox. In track mode the changes are 160 milliseconds

[Elysium]

I have just moved to the M5 from a big Audi diesel with an 8 speed ZF box.

The gearbox is one of the things I love about the car and I think it is a mistake to go for a torque converter gearbox on the new model. I am sure that it will be very very good, but it is an auto and that it is not what I want in a performance car.

[Welshbeef]

Elysium said:

I have just moved to the M5 from a big Audi diesel with an 8 speed ZF box.

The gearbox is one of the things I love about the car and I think it is a mistake to go for a torque converter gearbox on the new model. I am sure that it will be very very good, but it is an auto and that it is not what I want in a performance car.

Which M5 competitor offers stick shift ?

[Wills2]

Welshbeef said:

I think 8th is geared to 45mph per 1,000 rpm so don't worry about not being able to have a gone long pull.

Yes because 8th gear is sporty! LOL.