E60 M5 vs F10 M5 thoughts
Discussion
E90_M3Ross said:
I haven't driven an F10, but I have driven an F13 M6, I found it very capable, but not exciting. Daily driver, F10 would be better, but if you want something that gives a bit more excitement whilst still being a good daily driver, then perhaps the E60 is better.
Those complaining of little torque....true, to an extent, but come on, it's not like you're driving a 1L city car with 60bhp
The E60 can be dailied, I did mine, I'd just prefer the more lazy nature of the V8 TT I think.Those complaining of little torque....true, to an extent, but come on, it's not like you're driving a 1L city car with 60bhp
Re the torque, one way to fix it is a supercharger
I used my E60 for the daily commute for about a year and its poor tank/range did get on my nerves. The engine was truly great, but only if flying along. The gear box was frankly dire. I put up with it for the sake of the v10, but the F10's DCT is in a different league.
Also the E60 just wasn't really special enough (in my experience) to be a weekender. I binned it for a 911 turbo (manual) and looked about for a different daily saloon until the F10 was released. I was tempted to buy another E60 after a few months, but got cold feet after my first experience.
When I finally bought the F10, it was/still is a revelation for the commute, general driving and long distance road trips. Amazing practicality but with proper attitude and engagement whenever poked. In fact, I found myself taking it out in preference to my 911 and eventually let that car go. Yes, the F10 doesn't do a 4WD traffic lights party trick of usably allowing full power from the off, or pulling you out of every tricky spot, but that's why it's so engaging. 4WD cars tend to bore me after a while.
After 6 years of the F10 I thought it'd be fun to try another 911, having hankered after a GT3 for ages. But there was no way I was getting rid of my F10 for it. It's just too good. I've had the GT3 for a few years now and it's fantastic. But I'm still loving every minute in the M5. The GT3 has only emphasised how brilliant the F10 is.
As for the engine, the v10 was fab, but the v8 TT is also a monster when provoked. There was a very different signature to the v10 sound obvs, but I thought the car really needed a better exhaust because it was often underwhelming unless seriously going for it.
It's interesting to read that that the v8 has had issues. I will only keep mine as long as the BMW warranty is extendable, having had nightmares with a non M car engine. Just got my fingers crossed it's no time soon.
Also the E60 just wasn't really special enough (in my experience) to be a weekender. I binned it for a 911 turbo (manual) and looked about for a different daily saloon until the F10 was released. I was tempted to buy another E60 after a few months, but got cold feet after my first experience.
When I finally bought the F10, it was/still is a revelation for the commute, general driving and long distance road trips. Amazing practicality but with proper attitude and engagement whenever poked. In fact, I found myself taking it out in preference to my 911 and eventually let that car go. Yes, the F10 doesn't do a 4WD traffic lights party trick of usably allowing full power from the off, or pulling you out of every tricky spot, but that's why it's so engaging. 4WD cars tend to bore me after a while.
After 6 years of the F10 I thought it'd be fun to try another 911, having hankered after a GT3 for ages. But there was no way I was getting rid of my F10 for it. It's just too good. I've had the GT3 for a few years now and it's fantastic. But I'm still loving every minute in the M5. The GT3 has only emphasised how brilliant the F10 is.
As for the engine, the v10 was fab, but the v8 TT is also a monster when provoked. There was a very different signature to the v10 sound obvs, but I thought the car really needed a better exhaust because it was often underwhelming unless seriously going for it.
It's interesting to read that that the v8 has had issues. I will only keep mine as long as the BMW warranty is extendable, having had nightmares with a non M car engine. Just got my fingers crossed it's no time soon.
A late 2013 M5 Competition has recently come up for sale near me at a dealer…
Very dark charcoal grey colour, red leather (I like), those optional Multi-function comfort seats (very nice), 39,000 miles (tick tick)… I had a good poke around it last night just after they closed and before the sun went down. Looks tidy. However, close inspection of the tyres reveals Falkens on the front and a brand name I’ve never heard of before on the rear – not a good sign and perhaps previous owner ran on a budget / or dealer replaced the rears recently with that brand (they definitely weren’t a mainstream well-known brand)…
I’ll test-drive this Saturday and report back
Very dark charcoal grey colour, red leather (I like), those optional Multi-function comfort seats (very nice), 39,000 miles (tick tick)… I had a good poke around it last night just after they closed and before the sun went down. Looks tidy. However, close inspection of the tyres reveals Falkens on the front and a brand name I’ve never heard of before on the rear – not a good sign and perhaps previous owner ran on a budget / or dealer replaced the rears recently with that brand (they definitely weren’t a mainstream well-known brand)…
I’ll test-drive this Saturday and report back
A44RON said:
A late 2013 M5 Competition has recently come up for sale near me at a dealer…
Very dark charcoal grey colour, red leather (I like), those optional Multi-function comfort seats (very nice), 39,000 miles (tick tick)… I had a good poke around it last night just after they closed and before the sun went down. Looks tidy. However, close inspection of the tyres reveals Falkens on the front and a brand name I’ve never heard of before on the rear – not a good sign and perhaps previous owner ran on a budget / or dealer replaced the rears recently with that brand (they definitely weren’t a mainstream well-known brand)…
I’ll test-drive this Saturday and report back
Interested to know how you get on with it. I was very interested in these but just bought an M4 insteadVery dark charcoal grey colour, red leather (I like), those optional Multi-function comfort seats (very nice), 39,000 miles (tick tick)… I had a good poke around it last night just after they closed and before the sun went down. Looks tidy. However, close inspection of the tyres reveals Falkens on the front and a brand name I’ve never heard of before on the rear – not a good sign and perhaps previous owner ran on a budget / or dealer replaced the rears recently with that brand (they definitely weren’t a mainstream well-known brand)…
I’ll test-drive this Saturday and report back
FWIW, I ran an e61 M5 for a year. wrong engine for the car IMHO which, as a family daily, spent 85% of its time below 4k rpm where its was just dull. thought SMG was ok, if not great, but added some character / quirk.
range was what killed it for me as the tank was just daft in a large estate car and became hugely annoying.
The V10 belongs in a light, special weekend car where it spends most of its time north go 7k rpm. eg an Ultima would be 80% of an F1.
F10 seemed better in every way but ultimately a bit dull? I'm super lucky as I have the e46 M3 and 355 for high revving fun.
Ultimately, I've now gone for a 5.5 E63 estate and as a do it all, it's miles ahead of any M5 I've experienced. partly due to body shape (car, not me) but also the AMG V8 sounds silly, like God gargling boulders before breakfast. It makes me laugh every time I drive ut. It's not the fastest or razor sharp but for where I use it 99% of the time, it's hugely characterful and practical as well as being engaging and fun to drive. Steering is awesome. and grunt > grip = fun to my mind. Can't ask for more in my books.
Just my 2c.
range was what killed it for me as the tank was just daft in a large estate car and became hugely annoying.
The V10 belongs in a light, special weekend car where it spends most of its time north go 7k rpm. eg an Ultima would be 80% of an F1.
F10 seemed better in every way but ultimately a bit dull? I'm super lucky as I have the e46 M3 and 355 for high revving fun.
Ultimately, I've now gone for a 5.5 E63 estate and as a do it all, it's miles ahead of any M5 I've experienced. partly due to body shape (car, not me) but also the AMG V8 sounds silly, like God gargling boulders before breakfast. It makes me laugh every time I drive ut. It's not the fastest or razor sharp but for where I use it 99% of the time, it's hugely characterful and practical as well as being engaging and fun to drive. Steering is awesome. and grunt > grip = fun to my mind. Can't ask for more in my books.
Just my 2c.
A44RON said:
A late 2013 M5 Competition has recently come up for sale near me at a dealer…
Very dark charcoal grey colour, red leather (I like), those optional Multi-function comfort seats (very nice), 39,000 miles (tick tick)… I had a good poke around it last night just after they closed and before the sun went down. Looks tidy. However, close inspection of the tyres reveals Falkens on the front and a brand name I’ve never heard of before on the rear – not a good sign and perhaps previous owner ran on a budget / or dealer replaced the rears recently with that brand (they definitely weren’t a mainstream well-known brand)…
I’ll test-drive this Saturday and report back
Update:Very dark charcoal grey colour, red leather (I like), those optional Multi-function comfort seats (very nice), 39,000 miles (tick tick)… I had a good poke around it last night just after they closed and before the sun went down. Looks tidy. However, close inspection of the tyres reveals Falkens on the front and a brand name I’ve never heard of before on the rear – not a good sign and perhaps previous owner ran on a budget / or dealer replaced the rears recently with that brand (they definitely weren’t a mainstream well-known brand)…
I’ll test-drive this Saturday and report back
Viewed the car properly on Saturday. The indy dealer seemed a good honest bunch. They purchased the car with the tyres on it like that. It’s a 5 owner car, which does seem quite a lot, but then again it’s a late 2013 car… One owner only had it 42 days apparently. I went through the service history and I could only find 5 services completed, but then again it’s only done 39,000 miles
Test drove the car (it was stone cold), so was taking it easy until it warmed up. About 2-3 minutes down the road an engine warning light came on the dash and a ‘Drivetrain error” came up on the iDrive. It was in that restrictive power mode thing. After 5-10 minutes I pulled over, turned the car off, let it sit for a couple of minutes and then started it up again and the error disappeared and never came back for the rest of the test drive… The car was now up to temperature by the time I turned it back on.
For the rest of the test drive it was sweeeet and everything I expected it to be and more. Wow. I totally get you guys love these F10 M5s – a unique character of its own. I see what you mean how even in dry conditions in MDM mode with 3rd gear acceleration it still squirms underneath you – I like it! It commands respect
I’ve put a small holding deposit down on it. The initial engine warning light concerned me, and the 5 owners… so I’ve requested the pre-purchase inspection is done by a very good BMW independent M car specialist just up the road from them tomorrow. And I will contact them to see how it went tomorrow… the dealer also said it will be offered with a fresh Service & MOT, plus I’ll look at an aftermarket warranty for peace-of-mind
Good luck!
The 5 services, does that include the running in service? I'd prefer to see it serviced 7/8 times in 39k miles myself, probably more given its 10 years old. Did they all include oil changes?
Driveline fault could be anything. I'd have walked away at that, 5 owners and poor service schedule, but that's just me.
The 5 services, does that include the running in service? I'd prefer to see it serviced 7/8 times in 39k miles myself, probably more given its 10 years old. Did they all include oil changes?
Driveline fault could be anything. I'd have walked away at that, 5 owners and poor service schedule, but that's just me.
t mental.thanks for the comments all 
Having had time to think about it today with my head, instead of my heart during the test drive and letting my emotions take over on the weekend, i will obviously wait to see the report from the BMW Specialist and chat with them. If it's not meant to be then so be it the 5 owner thing and the brief drivetrain error has concerned me... i will put this experience down to being a bit gun-ho and not thinking logically.
Interestingly, when talking on the phone to the BM Specialist to book the car in, he said they're seeing more issues with the S63 and N63 motors than the S85 V10s! Which also goes inline with the recent S63 TU thread on here. He said once rod bearings and throttle actuators are sorted on the S85 they're quite reliable
Having had time to think about it today with my head, instead of my heart during the test drive and letting my emotions take over on the weekend, i will obviously wait to see the report from the BMW Specialist and chat with them. If it's not meant to be then so be it
the 5 owner thing and the brief drivetrain error has concerned me... i will put this experience down to being a bit gun-ho and not thinking logically.Interestingly, when talking on the phone to the BM Specialist to book the car in, he said they're seeing more issues with the S63 and N63 motors than the S85 V10s! Which also goes inline with the recent S63 TU thread on here. He said once rod bearings and throttle actuators are sorted on the S85 they're quite reliable
TheAngryDog said:
I'd just get your deposit back now, the car will probably turn into a money pit.
Being a 2013 it's also on the cusp of being a facelift - is it?
That's correct about the S85, maturity has had a positive impact on their reliability.
Yup it's an LCI facelift and Competition Pack, must be an early CP.Being a 2013 it's also on the cusp of being a facelift - is it?
That's correct about the S85, maturity has had a positive impact on their reliability.
I love the spec, but must think objectively
The first thing to do is make sure the running in service was done, that should have been done at 1,250 miles and I think you were allowed a 500 mile window, so maximum 1,750 miles. It's essential that that was done, without it you won't be able to get a BMW warranty.
Assuming the running in service was done in 2013 and it's a low mileage car, it should have then been serviced every two years after that alternating between oil service and microfilter only and oil service, microfilter, spark plugs and air filter.
It should also have had a brake fluid change at three years old, then every two years after that.
Lastly the vehicle check service which I think comes up every five years.
I'm assuming that the person doing your inspection has the diagnostic kit to read the fault codes, because you really need to know what caused that engine light to come on before you part with any cash. It may be nothing, but it could just as easily be something that comes back and seriously bites you on the arse.
Lastly, if you're planning on taking out a warranty I wouldn't bother with any of the aftermarket ones, I'd bite the bullet and get the BMW one, in my opinion it's the only one worth having on these cars.
Assuming the running in service was done in 2013 and it's a low mileage car, it should have then been serviced every two years after that alternating between oil service and microfilter only and oil service, microfilter, spark plugs and air filter.
It should also have had a brake fluid change at three years old, then every two years after that.
Lastly the vehicle check service which I think comes up every five years.
I'm assuming that the person doing your inspection has the diagnostic kit to read the fault codes, because you really need to know what caused that engine light to come on before you part with any cash. It may be nothing, but it could just as easily be something that comes back and seriously bites you on the arse.
Lastly, if you're planning on taking out a warranty I wouldn't bother with any of the aftermarket ones, I'd bite the bullet and get the BMW one, in my opinion it's the only one worth having on these cars.
Fault could be a leaky injector esp if its been standing for a while, or just a flat battery. Be interesting to see if the inspection gives it a clean bill of health. I'm not sure i'd be that confident in it myself, though from what i've heard the occasional drivetrain error on these is to be expected.
Harry Rule said:
The first thing to do is make sure the running in service was done, that should have been done at 1,250 miles and I think you were allowed a 500 mile window, so maximum 1,750 miles. It's essential that that was done, without it you won't be able to get a BMW warranty.
Assuming the running in service was done in 2013 and it's a low mileage car, it should have then been serviced every two years after that alternating between oil service and microfilter only and oil service, microfilter, spark plugs and air filter.
It should also have had a brake fluid change at three years old, then every two years after that.
Lastly the vehicle check service which I think comes up every five years.
I'm assuming that the person doing your inspection has the diagnostic kit to read the fault codes, because you really need to know what caused that engine light to come on before you part with any cash. It may be nothing, but it could just as easily be something that comes back and seriously bites you on the arse.
Lastly, if you're planning on taking out a warranty I wouldn't bother with any of the aftermarket ones, I'd bite the bullet and get the BMW one, in my opinion it's the only one worth having on these cars.
The bi-annual oil changes is one of the reasons these fail. Assuming the running in service was done in 2013 and it's a low mileage car, it should have then been serviced every two years after that alternating between oil service and microfilter only and oil service, microfilter, spark plugs and air filter.
It should also have had a brake fluid change at three years old, then every two years after that.
Lastly the vehicle check service which I think comes up every five years.
I'm assuming that the person doing your inspection has the diagnostic kit to read the fault codes, because you really need to know what caused that engine light to come on before you part with any cash. It may be nothing, but it could just as easily be something that comes back and seriously bites you on the arse.
Lastly, if you're planning on taking out a warranty I wouldn't bother with any of the aftermarket ones, I'd bite the bullet and get the BMW one, in my opinion it's the only one worth having on these cars.
rassi said:
If only it had bi-annual oil changes, rather than every 2 years (or 18.000 miles/30.000 km).
Why anyone in their right mind would have an oil change biennial is totally beyond me (or even push it to 18k miles for that matter), although bi-annually would be serious mileage if following the schedule!MikeM6 said:
rassi said:
If only it had bi-annual oil changes, rather than every 2 years (or 18.000 miles/30.000 km).
Why anyone in their right mind would have an oil change biennial is totally beyond me (or even push it to 18k miles for that matter), although bi-annually would be serious mileage if following the schedule!Gassing Station | M Power | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff