RE: The new BMW M3

[edb49]

squeezebm said:

Looks like Mr Whippy has finally met his match with someone who can be bothered to return answers to all his drivel in equal measure.....well done that man

About time too

[Mr Whippy]

Miguel said:

Tons of things that I mostly now agree with

But I still think the wheel thing is a clear make the smaller one look less pleasing than the bigger one (not ugly, just less pleasing)...

It's all, imho here, about making the 19" a default for many, cost option!

Dave

[nutcase]

Simple question- has anyone on here actually got theirs yet?! If so, get some photos up!

[squeezebm]

SEPT 8th Launch

[nutcase]

Ah, that'll be why then...! Well, I hope that all who have them on order enjoy them!

J

[dinkel]

http://www.autojunk.nl/clips/view/132420

[BigHeartedTone]

cheers Dinkel

[Miguel]

Mr Whippy said:

Miguel said:

Tons of things that I mostly now agree with

But I still think the wheel thing is a clear make the smaller one look less pleasing than the bigger one (not ugly, just less pleasing)...

It's all, imho here, about making the 19" a default for many, cost option!

Dave

Yeah, Dave, I think you're right. An extreme analogy would be if they made an M3 that looked just like a 335i. Would people still buy it? Sure, some would but many more would buy it if it looked more aggressive, which the M3 does, of course. I think some would buy the 19 inch rims even if they looked the same as the 18's, but more will buy them with a different, sharper design. I went a local book store. The new Evo is not out yet here in the U. S., so I'll have to wait a little longer to see it.

Miguel

[Miguel]

edb49 said:

Mr Whippy said:

I still stand by my point that it looks crap. 335Ci, 330Ci, lovely cars. M3, yuck!

Wing mirrors look really bad. Bonnet top vents and buldge are at odds with the flame design seen elsewhere. Side-vents being indented and swept back, but only just in time for the door to not need another panel, looks horrible and cheap. Wheel design doesn't suit the car/flame styling, this isn't an E46 M3.

Basically, everything that is new on the M3 against a nice E92 looks crap, contrived, chavvy, ugly or just plain wrong!

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. My thought process for putting the deposit down on the E92 was:

1) Get back from skiing and have the Evo with the "concept" E92 M3 on the front
2) Wow, that looks great
3) I've had a lot of fun in BMW 3 series in the past
4) The E46 M3 got good reviews
5) F*ck it, they can't get it THAT wrong can they?
6) Mr. Dealer, please take this £1000
7) Oops, did I make the right decision

I meant to reply to this post a long time ago but forgot. I think that all your points are valid, but 5 really hits the nail on the head. Again, it's not a race car. It's a road car, and for its intended purpose (a fast, fun road car with an amazing engine and that can carry a family of four), I think it'll be brilliant. And that engine at 7000+ RPM will be intoxicating.

Miguel

[sairamman]

tiff needel has test driven the new m3 vs the audi rs4 and destroys the rs4 on the track by over 2 secs and feels the m3 has much better steering, feel , handling etc. value his opinion higher nthan most motoring journalists and less of an agenda. no contest.

[Mr Whippy]

sairamman said:

tiff needel has test driven the new m3 vs the audi rs4 and destroys the rs4 on the track by over 2 secs and feels the m3 has much better steering, feel , handling etc. value his opinion higher nthan most motoring journalists and less of an agenda. no contest.

Would be interesting, purely in 'ultimate driving machine' terms to put an E46 M3 CS vs a new E92 M3 against each other.

Ignore stats and lap times, but just look at pure fun/involvement. Has the new one moved that on, or is it just much the same with more comfort and bigger numbers?

Just curious... comparing with the RS4 is silly, different cars for different tastes, what is really much more relevant is old vs new imho, in the key aspects this car is more marketed at, ie, the experience/dynamics etc...

Dave

[whoami]

Mr Whippy said:

sairamman said:

tiff needel has test driven the new m3 vs the audi rs4 and destroys the rs4 on the track by over 2 secs and feels the m3 has much better steering, feel , handling etc. value his opinion higher nthan most motoring journalists and less of an agenda. no contest.

Would be interesting, purely in 'ultimate driving machine' terms to put an E46 M3 CS vs a new E92 M3 against each other.



Just curious... comparing with the RS4 is silly, different cars for different tastes, what is really much more relevant is old vs new imho, in the key aspects this car is more marketed at, ie, the experience/dynamics etc...

Dave

Agree that the E46 M3 CS vs E92 M3 review would be interesting.

Why is the RS4 comparison silly?

[Mr Whippy]

whoami said:

Why is the RS4 comparison silly?

It's just apples and oranges. I think you undermine the point of the RS4 and M3 as two different cars for different purposes by comparing them both in isolation together. The last Evo magazine test with the E46 M3 CS, RS4 and Merc CLK AMG was more revealling for example.

The fact one has 4wd and 4 doors and the other 2wd and 2 doors means not comparing other cars with 2 and 4 doors and drive types is a bit silly, hence why the RS4 as the only comparison is silly.

Well it's about as relative as comparing an Evo IX with the M3, thats why I think it's silly.

The RS4 will never win against the M3 when the winner has to be the more focussed driving car. That doesn't mean the RS4 isn't what people might actually want and find better for more of the time.

Dave

[edb49]

Mr Whippy said:

whoami said:

Why is the RS4 comparison silly?

It's just apples and oranges. I think you undermine the point of the RS4 and M3 as two different cars for different purposes by comparing them both in isolation together. The last Evo magazine test with the E46 M3 CS, RS4 and Merc CLK AMG was more revealling for example.

The fact one has 4wd and 4 doors and the other 2wd and 2 doors means not comparing other cars with 2 and 4 doors and drive types is a bit silly, hence why the RS4 as the only comparison is silly.

Well it's about as relative as comparing an Evo IX with the M3, thats why I think it's silly.

Surely the point of group tests is to help people making a buying decision? I think the RS4, M3 and C63 are all very similar. My own choice was between M3 and C63, but a group test of them would have been very useful nonetheless.

[DoctorD]

Mr Whippy said:

Would be interesting, purely in 'ultimate driving machine' terms to put an E46 M3 CS vs a new E92 M3 against each other.

Ignore stats and lap times, but just look at pure fun/involvement. Has the new one moved that on, or is it just much the same with more comfort and bigger numbers?

Dave

We did. It will appear in the next issue of EVO in just over 2 weeks from now. We compared the E92 M3 with every other major M-car of the last 20 years (14 cars in total). We compared them all during a 3-day test around the Brecon Beacons - normal driving, back to back in convoy and more as the everyday owner would use them.

Edited by DoctorD on Monday 3rd September 09:05

[Pugsey]

DoctorD said:

Mr Whippy said:

Would be interesting, purely in 'ultimate driving machine' terms to put an E46 M3 CS vs a new E92 M3 against each other.

Ignore stats and lap times, but just look at pure fun/involvement. Has the new one moved that on, or is it just much the same with more comfort and bigger numbers?

Dave

We did. It will appear in the next issue of EVO in just over 2 weeks from now. We compared the E92 M3 with every other major M-car of the last 20 years (14 cars in total). We compared them all during a 3-day test around the Brecon Beacons - normal driving, back to back in convoy and more as the everyday owner would use them.

Edited by DoctorD on Monday 3rd September 09:05

EVO and 'normal' driving in the same sentence..................a sad, sad day.

[DoctorD]

Pugsey said:

DoctorD said:

EVO and 'normal' driving in the same sentence..................a sad, sad day.

Well Ok, we drifted each of them sideways through as many roundabouts as we could find. But we drove them normally(ish) back into the hotel car park.

[Mr Whippy]

edb49 said:

Mr Whippy said:

whoami said:

Why is the RS4 comparison silly?

It's just apples and oranges. I think you undermine the point of the RS4 and M3 as two different cars for different purposes by comparing them both in isolation together. The last Evo magazine test with the E46 M3 CS, RS4 and Merc CLK AMG was more revealling for example.

The fact one has 4wd and 4 doors and the other 2wd and 2 doors means not comparing other cars with 2 and 4 doors and drive types is a bit silly, hence why the RS4 as the only comparison is silly.

Well it's about as relative as comparing an Evo IX with the M3, thats why I think it's silly.

Surely the point of group tests is to help people making a buying decision? I think the RS4, M3 and C63 are all very similar. My own choice was between M3 and C63, but a group test of them would have been very useful nonetheless.

I think if I had £60k to spend, I'd make the decision on my criteria. The RS4 is, for me at least, a different type of car to the M3. The RS models have never really been competitors for the M philosophy cars, we just like to put them side by side because of their power outputs, but thats about all they have in common.
As you say, we need the Evo IX and CLK AMG in there too, if not some more.

DoctorD said:

Mr Whippy said:

Would be interesting, purely in 'ultimate driving machine' terms to put an E46 M3 CS vs a new E92 M3 against each other.

Ignore stats and lap times, but just look at pure fun/involvement. Has the new one moved that on, or is it just much the same with more comfort and bigger numbers?

Dave

We did. It will appear in the next issue of EVO in just over 2 weeks from now. We compared the E92 M3 with every other major M-car of the last 20 years (14 cars in total). We compared them all during a 3-day test around the Brecon Beacons - normal driving, back to back in convoy and more as the everyday owner would use them.

Sounds good, I look forward to that review more than any other M3 test I've read so far!

Dave

[Pugsey]

Doc.D. - That sounds more like it! I well remember returning from EVO group tests eyes out on stalks from keeping up with a fast moving train of EVO 'aces', brakes tired, exhuast hot and ticking, when the whole convoy would slow to an almost comical pace for the last mile to the hotel. Very sensible.

[edb49]

Can't wait. My money is that the M3 reviews will get better and better; a bit like the Veyron reviews have too. (Started off with everyone hating it, then coming around to it.)

It's obviously because they're the only production cars with 7 speed DCTs.