E36 M3 EVO upgrades

[tjw110]

teabagger said:

tjw110 said:

I have thye dreaded rough idle at the moment which will need remedying over the weekend.

I've got a rough idle, started last week, one minute it was OK then all lumpy again, now it’s continuous.

Anyone else had this? Any ideas? Other than lumpy idle it runs and pulls very well.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BG92&mospid=47433&btnr=13_0442&hg=13&fg=15

part 5 - if this is missing, it can cause bad idling. its visable under the intake plenum

Where am i looking?

[joesnow]

tjw110 said:

I have thye dreaded rough idle at the moment which will need remedying over the weekend.

I've got a rough idle, started last week, one minute it was OK then all lumpy again, now it’s continuous. I took it to my local Indy today and he did a quick plug in diagnostic check, 2 faults 1 VANOS exhaust 1 exhaust timing, the timing cleared up as it was caused by the VANOS fault.

I had a chat with him and he explained the solenoid thinks it's open, i.e. +2600rpm and will run like a bag of sh*t until the engine reached 2600rpm then it will run just fine.

He suggested I take off all the electrical connections as this sometimes causes the faults, done this, still no good. I've got it booked in for a vanos diagnostic check; 30 minutes should identify possible cause.

Anyone else had this? Any ideas? Other than lumpy idle it runs and pulls very well.

Cars a 99 M3 Evo convertible FSH, doesn't use any oil

After reading up on it over lunch,(what I'll be trying over the weekend)

1. Check the Mass Air Flow Meter (MAF) after the airbox/induction kit by unscrewing the connection. If that solves it, take the induction side to bits and clean the MAF sensor with an alcohol based cleaner.

2. Have a look at the T piece which can be found just underneath the induction pipe as enters the airbox. The t piece lies on top of the engine mount. One end is capped. If the cap is missing here, there is a leak which can cause lumpy idle.

3. Clean out the Idle control valve. A bit of a pain as you need to take off all of the induction side right up to the throttle bodies. Again this is amongst the pipework under the induction box.

Failing this, it'll be a trip to the inde' next week. Like you the car goes as usual in normal rev range, but when slowing in 1st/2nd around 1-2k rpm the car shunts, and rocks at idle in a "bbr bbr bbr bbr bbr" fashion.

Let me know how you get on.

[tjw110]

I've swapped the MAF over for a spare, didn't make any difference, I've been sent this with a diagram, but I can't find it..

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BG92...

[joesnow]

item (5). That's the cap I mentioned. I can see it on my car without removing any parts. It sits on the right of the enginebay under the induction stuff and on top of the engine mount.

Edited by joesnow on Friday 11th April 16:05

[teabagger]

take off the right angle pipe that links the air flow meter and the intake plenum. the vacuum pipe with the cap on it is just above the engine mount. the cap is fairly big and looks like a rubber bung!

Edited by teabagger on Friday 11th April 17:57

[RWDKurt]

Hi Crackie,

Some great advice from others on here. One addition if you don't want to spend as much on your suspension - a Bilstein Sprintline kit for less than £500 will make a significant difference for fast road use. Not adjustable, but like most properly developed kits, doesn't need to be.

Cheers

Kurt

[houlbt]

All budget related of course and I think would echo the comments of Kurt in so much as there is little point going for fully adjustable setups if you aren't going to utilise it. The Bilstein kit seems to get most peoples thumbs up for road usage. Lowering the car is aesthtically a great touch as it visually improves the stance of the car a lot I feel. Combine this with some better bushes and 4-wheel alignment (by someone who knows a good E36 setup) and this will transform your car.

Get your car remapped with someone who really kmows these cars, personally I think Wayne at Chipwizards (if you're oop norf) or Nigel at Bexley Motorsport are both very strong with these cars. Bexley Motorsport also has all the equipment to 4-wheel align your car and since they do my race car I like to think know what they are doing I suspect that changing some/all of the bushes and aligning your car will make it feel very different from how it does now.

Exhaust is worthwhile but induction kits I think are pony and you should do nothing unless you are going to get a proper carbon airbox. Lots of people do rave about some induction kit by Dave, so far as I can tell it's a filter and some carfully bent aluminium - but if it sounds great and that floats your boat so be it.

Strut Brace, X Brace not top of my list...actually they aren't on it

Tom



www.BMsport.com

[CRACKIE]

Kurt, Tom Thanks : I think you're right regarding a full adjustable coilover setup being overkill for me so I'm going to fit the Bilstein kit you suggested.

Will let you know how it all works out. Cheers.

Dave.

[houlbt]

Also... since I was just looking on their site I see Bexley Motorsport sell the braided clutch hose. Why don't you give them a shout and tell them I suggested you call (Tom with the Kumho Car).

http://www.bmsport.com/
0208 304 9797

Good luck with it... I love these cars

[ASBO]

CRACKIE said:

Kurt, Tom Thanks : I think you're right regarding a full adjustable coilover setup being overkill for me so I'm going to fit the Bilstein kit you suggested.

Will let you know how it all works out. Cheers.

Dave.

I think you'll end up regretting that. I had a Bilstein/Eibach setup on my Evo which was OK for the road, but I ended up getting a Bilstein coilover setup so I could have more control. If you venture anywhere near a track, a decent coilover setup should be a must.

[houlbt]

But you have to read what the gent said... he is after fast road rather than track and has a limited budget. I just don't think it's worth getting fully adjustable kit if that's the case. I mean how often is he going to be adjusting the dampers?

If this was a track car then I'd be talking a very different line but it isn't

[CRACKIE]

Thanks gents' I can see the benefits of each option. Looks like CA Automotive have KW variant 1 coilovers ( adjustable height and fixed damping ) for only £685 or less than £50 per corner extra relative to the Bilstein Sprintline Kit.

This KW option gives the option of not lowering very far ie a 30mm drop at the front and 20mm rear - sounds about right for me judging by the current "daylight" between tyre and arch.

Do you think the KW's would show a performance improvement ( to justify the extra £200 ) over the Bilsteins ?

Thanks

Dave

[french]

houlbt said:

But you have to read what the gent said... he is after fast road rather than track and has a limited budget. I just don't think it's worth getting fully adjustable kit if that's the case. I mean how often is he going to be adjusting the dampers?

If this was a track car then I'd be talking a very different line but it isn't

Exactly, i wish people would read these threads properly

[ASBO]

french said:

houlbt said:

But you have to read what the gent said... he is after fast road rather than track and has a limited budget. I just don't think it's worth getting fully adjustable kit if that's the case. I mean how often is he going to be adjusting the dampers?

If this was a track car then I'd be talking a very different line but it isn't

Exactly, i wish people would read these threads properly

Come now french I was almost beginning to take you seriously

Fortunately, God gave me the ability to read and write properly so I can assure you I always make use of these credentials to the fullest.

If you lot bothered to read what I said () then you'd note that from experience, a simple set of springs and dampers still makes the M3 a little too 'wallowy' (at least for my tastes), wheras a good coilover set-up can really tie things down.

More-over, I'd argue that the likes of the Eibach and Bilstein kits are primarily designed for the road - Bilstein will back me up with this one, whereas the likes of Intrax et al provide a suitably solid set-up for the track. After-all, I've just fitted an AC Shnitzer/Bilstein 'Race' coilover kit to my M3 and I find it a little too soft for my liking on track.

Experiance counts for a lot. I do wish some of you would appreciate that

[houlbt]

ASBO said:

If you lot bothered to read what I said () then you'd note that from experience, a simple set of springs and dampers still makes the M3 a little too 'wallowy' (at least for my tastes), wheras a good coilover set-up can really tie things down.

More-over, I'd argue that the likes of the Eibach and Bilstein kits are primarily designed for the road - Bilstein will back me up with this one, whereas the likes of Intrax et al provide a suitably solid set-up for the track. After-all, I've just fitted an AC Shnitzer/Bilstein 'Race' coilover kit to my M3 and I find it a little too soft for my liking on track.

Experiance counts for a lot. I do wish some of you would appreciate that

I can't let this go.... you did actually say " I had a Bilstein/Eibach setup on my Evo which was OK for the road" ... and that is exactly what Crackie is after on a budget. Also in your quote above you went on to say "I'd argue that the likes of the Eibach and Bilstein kits are primarily designed for the road" Which again is what Crackie is after.

I my mind it's all about budget, period.

As for experience counting for a lot, I agree but you're not the only person with input... I absoloutely agree with you that a coilover setup would be a superior solution and that Crackie might well prefer it. However this is a question of budget and need. Does he have the budget or need to spend the additional money if the car isn't going on track. Different springs/damppers and bushes with a 4-wheel align might improve the drive/feel of his car and give it a nicer/lower stance which is more than adequate for the road which is where his needs are focused.

Personally I would fit intraxx for road use or Ohlins/Motons for dedicated track but it's a different scale of cost.

Edited by houlbt on Tuesday 15th April 09:50

[ASBO]

houlbt said:

ASBO said:

If you lot bothered to read what I said () then you'd note that from experience, a simple set of springs and dampers still makes the M3 a little too 'wallowy' (at least for my tastes), wheras a good coilover set-up can really tie things down.

More-over, I'd argue that the likes of the Eibach and Bilstein kits are primarily designed for the road - Bilstein will back me up with this one, whereas the likes of Intrax et al provide a suitably solid set-up for the track. After-all, I've just fitted an AC Shnitzer/Bilstein 'Race' coilover kit to my M3 and I find it a little too soft for my liking on track.

Experiance counts for a lot. I do wish some of you would appreciate that

I can't let this go.... you did actually say " I had a Bilstein/Eibach setup on my Evo which was OK for the road" ... and that is exactly what Crackie is after on a budget. Also in your quote above you went on to say "I'd argue that the likes of the Eibach and Bilstein kits are primarily designed for the road" Which again is what Crackie is after.

I my mind it's all about budget, period.

As for experience counting for a lot, I agree but you're not the only person with input... I absoloutely agree with you that a coilover setup would be a superior solution and that Crackie might well prefer it. However this is a question of budget and need. Does he have the budget or need to spend the additional money if the car isn't going on track. Different springs/damppers and bushes with a 4-wheel align might improve the drive/feel of his car and give it a nicer/lower stance which is more than adequate for the road which is where his needs are focused.

Personally I would fit intraxx for road use or Ohlins/Motons for dedicated track but it's a different scale of cost.

OK now you're mincing my words.

There is a clear difference between something being OK and something being good. My 18 year old M5 drives 'OK' considering it's age but it still needs a suspension overhaul to make it drive anything like it should.

Cutting one's springs to 'slam' their car is OK if you want to look like a teenage pimp and.... I think you get my point.

The E36 is a heavy car. In M3 guise, it's a fast/competant GT. To turn it into something a little more focussed a simple spring and damper set-up is IME not enough. Even with Eibach springs and bilstein dampers (note: NOT coilovers), Mine still bottomed out when the going got tough and would float unervingly over bigger yumps and bumps. Therefore, spending ~£500 is ill advised, when a little more will get you a car that really does feel well sorted. I know, I've been there and got the T-shirt and felt let-down by the first set-up.

As for the Eibach and Bilstein kits, I was referring to their coilovers, which are designed primarily for the road. Otherwise I'd be contradicting myself

Budget is of course a concern for everyone, but IME it's better to spend a little more to get a lot that spend a little and be disapointed. Hence the reason I suggested coing down the coilover route in the first place.

[houlbt]

ok ok, I give in. I think your last comment qualifies as much better input and thus advice for a potential buyer... and my read on that would be that in your opinion Bilsteins and Eibachs (not coilover I know) are most clearly "not ok".

Edited by houlbt on Tuesday 15th April 14:31

[ASBO]

houlbt said:

and my read on that would be that in your opinion Bilsteins and Eibachs (not coilover I know) are most clearly "not ok".

Well they are fine for general use. By that I mean licking about as you normally would. For serious schnell, you need something a little more substantial and when you need to spend a fair chunk on them in the first place, it makes sense to spend a little more to get a great set-up by way of coilovers.

Anyway, I'm exhausted now

[CRACKIE]

Thanks ASBO & Tom ~ based upon advice so far the revised list, in order of priority, reads.

1. Goodridge braided brake lines.
2. Ferodo DS2500 pads + upgrade fluid.
3. Eibach Sprintline Kit.
4. Eibach anti roll bars.
5. Replacement of all other bushes with OE type + eccentric TCA bushes.
6. Suspension geometry setup at Bexley.
7. Motorsport lower cross brace.
8. OMP front strut brace.
9. BMW braided clutch hose.
10. Supersprint rear box.
11. Remap.

I'm hoping to have items 1~5 sorted during the next 14 days and will let you know the outcome.

Many thanks,
Dave.

[tjw110]

joesnow said:

tjw110 said:

I have thye dreaded rough idle at the moment which will need remedying over the weekend.

I've got a rough idle, started last week, one minute it was OK then all lumpy again, now it’s continuous. I took it to my local Indy today and he did a quick plug in diagnostic check, 2 faults 1 VANOS exhaust 1 exhaust timing, the timing cleared up as it was caused by the VANOS fault.

I had a chat with him and he explained the solenoid thinks it's open, i.e. +2600rpm and will run like a bag of sh*t until the engine reached 2600rpm then it will run just fine.

He suggested I take off all the electrical connections as this sometimes causes the faults, done this, still no good. I've got it booked in for a vanos diagnostic check; 30 minutes should identify possible cause.

Anyone else had this? Any ideas? Other than lumpy idle it runs and pulls very well.

Cars a 99 M3 Evo convertible FSH, doesn't use any oil

After reading up on it over lunch,(what I'll be trying over the weekend)

1. Check the Mass Air Flow Meter (MAF) after the airbox/induction kit by unscrewing the connection. If that solves it, take the induction side to bits and clean the MAF sensor with an alcohol based cleaner.

2. Have a look at the T piece which can be found just underneath the induction pipe as enters the airbox. The t piece lies on top of the engine mount. One end is capped. If the cap is missing here, there is a leak which can cause lumpy idle.

3. Clean out the Idle control valve. A bit of a pain as you need to take off all of the induction side right up to the throttle bodies. Again this is amongst the pipework under the induction box.

Failing this, it'll be a trip to the inde' next week. Like you the car goes as usual in normal rev range, but when slowing in 1st/2nd around 1-2k rpm the car shunts, and rocks at idle in a "bbr bbr bbr bbr bbr" fashion.

Let me know how you get on.

Bad news this morning, I've had a full vanos diognostic check, "Exhaust solenoid failure & idle control valve fault" my local INDI that did the check have quoted £1536 for the vanos, £47.42 for the gasket set & £250 for fitting, plus the VAT... I've had a read up on a couple of peoples self fixes and fopund this one, any thoughts..!!!

M3 Evo VANOS problem defeated at last! Well my one anyway!

Background
When I bought the car the exhaust solenoid cover was hanging off due to sheared bolts even though it had had the new bolt recall. I negotiated a price for the car and replaced the bolts and fitted a new gasket. However after two weeks the car started running poorly with a lumpy tickover.

Diagnosis
Two independent specialists both told me the exhaust cam was not following what was asked of it by the ECU and was stuck at 35-40° retarded. I read up all I could and was quoted £1700 for a replacement including labour.

Investigation
I followed Mr Mukerji's very useful advice (http://www.mukerji.co.uk) and removed my solenoids only to find that both the outer edges of the o-ring grooves on the ends of the solenoids had failed due to the poor design with a deep counterbore weakening the edge. This allowed the oil pressure to bypass both solenoids and stopped the exhaust VANOS from working, or so I hoped!

Solution
1. Buy new solenoids for £210 and hope that would cure it.
or
2. Engineer a fix.
Obviously took the cheaper option!
I measured up all dimensions using depth mic, outside mic and vernier. Then I made two bushes that fit behind the solenoids to act as a new outside edge for the o-ring. I then filed off the remains of the outer groove edge on the solenoids so that they fitted into the bushes. I then bolted it all back up with new o-rings, I had calculated the bush length to give a few thou nip on the o-rings and gave it a whirl. Result, a fully functioning VANOS unit and a baby bum smooth tickover!!

This may all sound quite straight forward but it took a lot of head scratching to get to this stage. If anyone wants more details then just ask and I will see what I can do.