RE: X6-based M Model On the Way
Discussion
hammertime said:
Donut said:
Have you driven both?
I have, which means I'm able to make the statement.
Oh and curry remark was to make a point, Doofus!
i have driven an s4 and lots of 4x4`s (nissan,bmw,mercedes,range rover etc) but no to be honest not an x6. had fun in the s4 which is why im sure a 4x4 can not handle anywhere near as well, it is just too tall and i can honestly say that i feel you can not have driving "fun" in a car with such high centre of gravity (except possibly in a straight line if you think that can be classified as fun), the physics do not allow it to handle with any sort of finesse. put it this way i expect 90% of people would expect to be taken apart if they were in a 4x4 and were opposed by an s4 in any situation but possibly a straight line, and even then only thanks to a power advantage although it would i expect be close due to the aerodynamics. this is why 4x4`s do not ever end up on a track because they are too heavy and clumsy. I have, which means I'm able to make the statement.
Oh and curry remark was to make a point, Doofus!
physics donut.
Edited by huge on Monday 4th August 07:56
huge said:
hammertime said:
Donut said:
Have you driven both?
I have, which means I'm able to make the statement.
Oh and curry remark was to make a point, Doofus!
i have driven an s4 and lots of 4x4`s (nissan,bmw,mercedes,range rover etc) but no to be honest not an x6. had fun in the s4 which is why im sure a 4x4 can not handle anywhere near as well, it is just too tall and i can honestly say that i feel you can not have driving "fun" in a car with such high centre of gravity (except possibly in a straight line if you think that can be classified as fun), the physics do not allow it to handle with any sort of finesse. put it this way i expect 90% of people would expect to be taken apart if they were in a 4x4 and were opposed by an s4 in any situation but possibly a straight line, and even then only thanks to a power advantage although it would i expect be close due to the aerodynamics. this is why 4x4`s do not ever end up on a track because they are too heavy and clumsy. I have, which means I'm able to make the statement.
Oh and curry remark was to make a point, Doofus!
physics donut.
Edited by huge on Monday 4th August 07:56
I'd like to see a Cayenne do anything approaching an endurance run vs a light, low car.
Dave
hammertime said:
Donut said:
Have you driven both?
I have, which means I'm able to make the statement.
Oh and curry remark was to make a point, Doofus!
i have driven an s4 and lots of 4x4`s (nissan,bmw,mercedes,range rover etc) but no to be honest not an x6. had fun in the s4 which is why im sure a 4x4 can not handle anywhere near as well, it is just too tall and i can honestly say that i feel you can not have driving "fun" in a car with such high centre of gravity (except possibly in a straight line if you think that can be classified as fun), the physics do not allow it to handle with any sort of finesse. put it this way i expect 90% of people would expect to be taken apart if they were in a 4x4 and were opposed by an s4 in any situation but possibly a straight line, and even then only thanks to a power advantage although it would i expect be close due to the aerodynamics. this is why 4x4`s do not ever end up on a track because they are too heavy and clumsy. I have, which means I'm able to make the statement.
Oh and curry remark was to make a point, Doofus!
physics donut.
hammertime said:
Donut said:
Have you driven both?
I have, which means I'm able to make the statement.
Oh and curry remark was to make a point, Doofus!
i have driven an s4 and lots of 4x4`s (nissan,bmw,mercedes,range rover etc) but no to be honest not an x6. had fun in the s4 which is why im sure a 4x4 can not handle anywhere near as well, it is just too tall and i can honestly say that i feel you can not have driving "fun" in a car with such high centre of gravity (except possibly in a straight line if you think that can be classified as fun), the physics do not allow it to handle with any sort of finesse. put it this way i expect 90% of people would expect to be taken apart if they were in a 4x4 and were opposed by an s4 in any situation but possibly a straight line, and even then only thanks to a power advantage although it would i expect be close due to the aerodynamics. this is why 4x4`s do not ever end up on a track because they are too heavy and clumsy. I have, which means I'm able to make the statement.
Oh and curry remark was to make a point, Doofus!
physics donut.
Yes you have driven many 4X4's, hence the curry comment! they don't all drive the same.
And maybe some one will track an X6? A few years ago you'd of sectioned anyone who claimed that a diesel would race at Le Mans........
Mr Whippy said:
huge said:
hammertime said:
Donut said:
Have you driven both?
I have, which means I'm able to make the statement.
Oh and curry remark was to make a point, Doofus!
i have driven an s4 and lots of 4x4`s (nissan,bmw,mercedes,range rover etc) but no to be honest not an x6. had fun in the s4 which is why im sure a 4x4 can not handle anywhere near as well, it is just too tall and i can honestly say that i feel you can not have driving "fun" in a car with such high centre of gravity (except possibly in a straight line if you think that can be classified as fun), the physics do not allow it to handle with any sort of finesse. put it this way i expect 90% of people would expect to be taken apart if they were in a 4x4 and were opposed by an s4 in any situation but possibly a straight line, and even then only thanks to a power advantage although it would i expect be close due to the aerodynamics. this is why 4x4`s do not ever end up on a track because they are too heavy and clumsy. I have, which means I'm able to make the statement.
Oh and curry remark was to make a point, Doofus!
physics donut.
Edited by huge on Monday 4th August 07:56
I'd like to see a Cayenne do anything approaching an endurance run vs a light, low car.
Dave
Pugsey said:
Mr Whippy said:
huge said:
hammertime said:
Donut said:
Have you driven both?
I have, which means I'm able to make the statement.
Oh and curry remark was to make a point, Doofus!
i have driven an s4 and lots of 4x4`s (nissan,bmw,mercedes,range rover etc) but no to be honest not an x6. had fun in the s4 which is why im sure a 4x4 can not handle anywhere near as well, it is just too tall and i can honestly say that i feel you can not have driving "fun" in a car with such high centre of gravity (except possibly in a straight line if you think that can be classified as fun), the physics do not allow it to handle with any sort of finesse. put it this way i expect 90% of people would expect to be taken apart if they were in a 4x4 and were opposed by an s4 in any situation but possibly a straight line, and even then only thanks to a power advantage although it would i expect be close due to the aerodynamics. this is why 4x4`s do not ever end up on a track because they are too heavy and clumsy. I have, which means I'm able to make the statement.
Oh and curry remark was to make a point, Doofus!
physics donut.
Edited by huge on Monday 4th August 07:56
I'd like to see a Cayenne do anything approaching an endurance run vs a light, low car.
Dave
Honestly though, the fundamentals of anything track biased at all puts weight as enemy number one!
Anything heavy essentially has alot more work to do to catch up, a feedback loop. Heavier duty suspension, more weight, needing more power, needing bigger heavier driveshafts, more weight, inertia, bigger brakes, bigger engine, etc etc.
Reduce weight, and you UPGRADE all the above things. You upgrade your engine, brakes, suspension, tyres etc etc...
Yes the M3's brakes turn to chocolate, the X6's will turn to chocolate twice as quickly, along with the tyres overheating after a few laps.
Dave
Mr Whippy said:
Pugsey said:
Mr Whippy said:
huge said:
hammertime said:
Donut said:
Have you driven both?
I have, which means I'm able to make the statement.
Oh and curry remark was to make a point, Doofus!
i have driven an s4 and lots of 4x4`s (nissan,bmw,mercedes,range rover etc) but no to be honest not an x6. had fun in the s4 which is why im sure a 4x4 can not handle anywhere near as well, it is just too tall and i can honestly say that i feel you can not have driving "fun" in a car with such high centre of gravity (except possibly in a straight line if you think that can be classified as fun), the physics do not allow it to handle with any sort of finesse. put it this way i expect 90% of people would expect to be taken apart if they were in a 4x4 and were opposed by an s4 in any situation but possibly a straight line, and even then only thanks to a power advantage although it would i expect be close due to the aerodynamics. this is why 4x4`s do not ever end up on a track because they are too heavy and clumsy. I have, which means I'm able to make the statement.
Oh and curry remark was to make a point, Doofus!
physics donut.
Edited by huge on Monday 4th August 07:56
I'd like to see a Cayenne do anything approaching an endurance run vs a light, low car.
Dave
Honestly though, the fundamentals of anything track biased at all puts weight as enemy number one!
Anything heavy essentially has alot more work to do to catch up, a feedback loop. Heavier duty suspension, more weight, needing more power, needing bigger heavier driveshafts, more weight, inertia, bigger brakes, bigger engine, etc etc.
Reduce weight, and you UPGRADE all the above things. You upgrade your engine, brakes, suspension, tyres etc etc...
Yes the M3's brakes turn to chocolate, the X6's will turn to chocolate twice as quickly, along with the tyres overheating after a few laps.
Dave
Seriously, the fact that we are even comparing this car with what are enormously competent road cars rather confirms my arguement - based on direct experience of the car - that it is actually a superb drive on road. Which is all I've ever claimed for it. On road it handles superbly for an SUV - better than any other including the Porsche - and in medium/large saloon terms, say 5 Series or A4, I'd still rate it as excellent and indeed better than quite a few. I'd happily take on any normal 'hot hatch' over my fave. roads in Wales or Yorkshire too. Just DRIVE one. Nobody's saying it's a Caterham for heavens sake!
Pugsey said:
Mr Whippy said:
Pugsey said:
Mr Whippy said:
huge said:
hammertime said:
Donut said:
Have you driven both?
I have, which means I'm able to make the statement.
Oh and curry remark was to make a point, Doofus!
i have driven an s4 and lots of 4x4`s (nissan,bmw,mercedes,range rover etc) but no to be honest not an x6. had fun in the s4 which is why im sure a 4x4 can not handle anywhere near as well, it is just too tall and i can honestly say that i feel you can not have driving "fun" in a car with such high centre of gravity (except possibly in a straight line if you think that can be classified as fun), the physics do not allow it to handle with any sort of finesse. put it this way i expect 90% of people would expect to be taken apart if they were in a 4x4 and were opposed by an s4 in any situation but possibly a straight line, and even then only thanks to a power advantage although it would i expect be close due to the aerodynamics. this is why 4x4`s do not ever end up on a track because they are too heavy and clumsy. I have, which means I'm able to make the statement.
Oh and curry remark was to make a point, Doofus!
physics donut.
Edited by huge on Monday 4th August 07:56
I'd like to see a Cayenne do anything approaching an endurance run vs a light, low car.
Dave
Honestly though, the fundamentals of anything track biased at all puts weight as enemy number one!
Anything heavy essentially has alot more work to do to catch up, a feedback loop. Heavier duty suspension, more weight, needing more power, needing bigger heavier driveshafts, more weight, inertia, bigger brakes, bigger engine, etc etc.
Reduce weight, and you UPGRADE all the above things. You upgrade your engine, brakes, suspension, tyres etc etc...
Yes the M3's brakes turn to chocolate, the X6's will turn to chocolate twice as quickly, along with the tyres overheating after a few laps.
Dave
Seriously, the fact that we are even comparing this car with what are enormously competent road cars rather confirms my arguement - based on direct experience of the car - that it is actually a superb drive on road. Which is all I've ever claimed for it. On road it handles superbly for an SUV - better than any other including the Porsche - and in medium/large saloon terms, say 5 Series or A4, I'd still rate it as excellent and indeed better than quite a few. I'd happily take on any normal 'hot hatch' over my fave. roads in Wales or Yorkshire too. Just DRIVE one. Nobody's saying it's a Caterham for heavens sake!
My main gripe is still that it's ugly (just my 2p), and in all honesty I'd rather just get an X5 because it looks nicer, and is better off-road and for towing, AND, I'm sure it's still very very good on the road, especially in it's next incarnation. No reviews ever gave the 4.8is a bad review on it's handling considering what it was...
Yes the X6 handles a bit better, but it also has less of what it is shaped/sized for too. Ie, it can't tow like an X5, which is the same size/weight, it has less capacity/internal size than the X5, it can't off-road as well as an X5.
If I were to compromise on a big car at all, I'd just go that bit further and get one that was properly good at things that 2 tonne+, high ride height, awd vehicles do anyway.
Imagine an X5 with 500bhp, that could be a stonking off-roader, towing vehicle, and still be bloody good on road.
The X6 M will just be a fast big car. Whoopie doo. M5 for me please.
Dave
Edited by Mr Whippy on Monday 4th August 13:57
Mr Whippy said:
Pugsey said:
Mr Whippy said:
Pugsey said:
Mr Whippy said:
huge said:
hammertime said:
Donut said:
Have you driven both?
I have, which means I'm able to make the statement.
Oh and curry remark was to make a point, Doofus!
i have driven an s4 and lots of 4x4`s (nissan,bmw,mercedes,range rover etc) but no to be honest not an x6. had fun in the s4 which is why im sure a 4x4 can not handle anywhere near as well, it is just too tall and i can honestly say that i feel you can not have driving "fun" in a car with such high centre of gravity (except possibly in a straight line if you think that can be classified as fun), the physics do not allow it to handle with any sort of finesse. put it this way i expect 90% of people would expect to be taken apart if they were in a 4x4 and were opposed by an s4 in any situation but possibly a straight line, and even then only thanks to a power advantage although it would i expect be close due to the aerodynamics. this is why 4x4`s do not ever end up on a track because they are too heavy and clumsy. I have, which means I'm able to make the statement.
Oh and curry remark was to make a point, Doofus!
physics donut.
Edited by huge on Monday 4th August 07:56
I'd like to see a Cayenne do anything approaching an endurance run vs a light, low car.
Dave
Honestly though, the fundamentals of anything track biased at all puts weight as enemy number one!
Anything heavy essentially has alot more work to do to catch up, a feedback loop. Heavier duty suspension, more weight, needing more power, needing bigger heavier driveshafts, more weight, inertia, bigger brakes, bigger engine, etc etc.
Reduce weight, and you UPGRADE all the above things. You upgrade your engine, brakes, suspension, tyres etc etc...
Yes the M3's brakes turn to chocolate, the X6's will turn to chocolate twice as quickly, along with the tyres overheating after a few laps.
Dave
Seriously, the fact that we are even comparing this car with what are enormously competent road cars rather confirms my arguement - based on direct experience of the car - that it is actually a superb drive on road. Which is all I've ever claimed for it. On road it handles superbly for an SUV - better than any other including the Porsche - and in medium/large saloon terms, say 5 Series or A4, I'd still rate it as excellent and indeed better than quite a few. I'd happily take on any normal 'hot hatch' over my fave. roads in Wales or Yorkshire too. Just DRIVE one. Nobody's saying it's a Caterham for heavens sake!
My main gripe is still that it's ugly (just my 2p), and in all honesty I'd rather just get an X5 because it looks nicer, and is better off-road and for towing, AND, I'm sure it's still very very good on the road, especially in it's next incarnation. No reviews ever gave the 4.8is a bad review on it's handling considering what it was...
Yes the X6 handles a bit better, but it also has less of what it is shaped/sized for too. Ie, it can't tow like an X5, which is the same size/weight, it has less capacity/internal size than the X5, it can't off-road as well as an X5.
If I were to compromise on a big car at all, I'd just go that bit further and get one that was properly good at things that 2 tonne+, high ride height, awd vehicles do anyway.
Imagine an X5 with 500bhp, that could be a stonking off-roader, towing vehicle, and still be bloody good on road.
The X6 M will just be a fast big car. Whoopie doo. M5 for me please.
Dave
Edited by Mr Whippy on Monday 4th August 13:57
Edited by Pugsey on Monday 4th August 14:42
djohnson said:
I'm almost ashamed to admit that I've seen a couple of X6s and really liked them. Also the idea of a properly quick 4x4 really appeals to me. I will have to take a serious look at the MX6 / X6M when it comes out. Guesses as to price? £75k+?
Shall I get my coat?
YES unless you drive a caterham for work or a TVR at the w/ends you do not belong on PH Shall I get my coat?
Edited by squeezebm on Monday 4th August 17:58
Pugsey said:
As you say that's fine as it's all personal choice and preferences and when it comes to that there is no 'right' or 'wrong'. As it happens I don't need five or even seven seats and won't go off road and the X6's markedly superior handling wins my vote. If they ever update the X5 and make it handle as well as the X6 I'll go back to one since I marginally prefer it's looks too. One small point though - I don't understand why you don't think that the X6 will tow as well as the X5. IMO it may actually be better - due to better body control/less roll? Again, as with the off road bit, not really an issue for me as my Defender does the towing thing too!
But then why not just get a 535d, or an M5 in the case of an X6 M?If off-road and towing are not required, nor the extra seats/space, and a desire for handling performance is such that you would take a better X6 over a still very good X5, then why not just get a car that is better again?
I'm still just more curious. I think BMW's 5 and X5 are great cars, I just wonder where the X6 fits in... I personally think it'll make money for BMW, but I don't have to like it looks wise or ethos wise against BMW's ideology as it were
As per towing, afaik the X5 has a 3.5 tonne towing weight, so good for horsey people etc... the X6 is half that iirc.
Dave
Mr Whippy said:
Pugsey said:
As you say that's fine as it's all personal choice and preferences and when it comes to that there is no 'right' or 'wrong'. As it happens I don't need five or even seven seats and won't go off road and the X6's markedly superior handling wins my vote. If they ever update the X5 and make it handle as well as the X6 I'll go back to one since I marginally prefer it's looks too. One small point though - I don't understand why you don't think that the X6 will tow as well as the X5. IMO it may actually be better - due to better body control/less roll? Again, as with the off road bit, not really an issue for me as my Defender does the towing thing too!
But then why not just get a 535d, or an M5 in the case of an X6 M?If off-road and towing are not required, nor the extra seats/space, and a desire for handling performance is such that you would take a better X6 over a still very good X5, then why not just get a car that is better again?
I'm still just more curious. I think BMW's 5 and X5 are great cars, I just wonder where the X6 fits in... I personally think it'll make money for BMW, but I don't have to like it looks wise or ethos wise against BMW's ideology as it were
As per towing, afaik the X5 has a 3.5 tonne towing weight, so good for horsey people etc... the X6 is half that iirc.
Dave
Now lets call it quits before we bore everybody, or each other to death. I like it too. And I am not ashamed to say so.
Bloody hell, its a big, fast BMW. Period. Thats it. Nothing more. The line of thinking demonstrated in this thread is at times ridiculous.
- Fast cars are fun to drive and useful.
- 4x4 cars are fun and useful.
So why not have a fast, fun and useful 4x4? It's not that hard an equation to figure out.
And to those who say that " If you want a fast large car, get an Audi RS or 535, I have this to say:
I don't want either of those cars. I would prefer an X5 or X6, given enough beans to buy one .
Simple really.
Bloody hell, its a big, fast BMW. Period. Thats it. Nothing more. The line of thinking demonstrated in this thread is at times ridiculous.
- Fast cars are fun to drive and useful.
- 4x4 cars are fun and useful.
So why not have a fast, fun and useful 4x4? It's not that hard an equation to figure out.
And to those who say that " If you want a fast large car, get an Audi RS or 535, I have this to say:
I don't want either of those cars. I would prefer an X5 or X6, given enough beans to buy one .
Simple really.
Yep - you pays your money, you takes your choice.
I remember many people going on about the M6 being a daft car when you can get the M5 cheaper, with more space, extra doors etc. etc. Well I drove both extensively, and now own an M6 which is IMO a much better car if you are not concerned about sticking a couple of 6 footers in the back and a bunch of suitcases. The M6 is a shaper more direct car.
The M6 is the most dynamic.
The M5 has the extra space.
The X6M will offer the higer driving position many poeple like.
An X5M can offer even more space and possibly even a 7 seat option.
If there wasn't a market - BMW wouldn't make them!
I remember many people going on about the M6 being a daft car when you can get the M5 cheaper, with more space, extra doors etc. etc. Well I drove both extensively, and now own an M6 which is IMO a much better car if you are not concerned about sticking a couple of 6 footers in the back and a bunch of suitcases. The M6 is a shaper more direct car.
The M6 is the most dynamic.
The M5 has the extra space.
The X6M will offer the higer driving position many poeple like.
An X5M can offer even more space and possibly even a 7 seat option.
If there wasn't a market - BMW wouldn't make them!
Pugsey said:
Mr Whippy said:
Pugsey said:
As you say that's fine as it's all personal choice and preferences and when it comes to that there is no 'right' or 'wrong'. As it happens I don't need five or even seven seats and won't go off road and the X6's markedly superior handling wins my vote. If they ever update the X5 and make it handle as well as the X6 I'll go back to one since I marginally prefer it's looks too. One small point though - I don't understand why you don't think that the X6 will tow as well as the X5. IMO it may actually be better - due to better body control/less roll? Again, as with the off road bit, not really an issue for me as my Defender does the towing thing too!
But then why not just get a 535d, or an M5 in the case of an X6 M?If off-road and towing are not required, nor the extra seats/space, and a desire for handling performance is such that you would take a better X6 over a still very good X5, then why not just get a car that is better again?
I'm still just more curious. I think BMW's 5 and X5 are great cars, I just wonder where the X6 fits in... I personally think it'll make money for BMW, but I don't have to like it looks wise or ethos wise against BMW's ideology as it were
As per towing, afaik the X5 has a 3.5 tonne towing weight, so good for horsey people etc... the X6 is half that iirc.
Dave
Now lets call it quits before we bore everybody, or each other to death. It's good you like it though, it'd be boring if we all liked the same stuff
Dave
bmw2002 said:
mat205125 said:
bmw2002 said:
Castle Combe 2 weeks ago 
He's going the wrong way aroung the track!Edited by bmw2002 on Monday 4th August 10:14
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