which M engine is the ONE??!!??
Discussion
Baddie said:
S52/54 is a phenomenal achievement for series production motor, easily surpassing Porsche's achievements for many years (only now routinely 100 BHP/litre and GT3 engine is >£30k). However, S38 had highest specific output of any production motor bar 1.6 Hondas in early 90's, and how many Lambos and Fezza's would see 200k miles?
S52? 3.2 litres and 240bhp? Not a patch on the S50.A few of us have said S52 where we mean S50 (smart alec)
Would like to try the 3.6/3.8 but certain that I'd be completely disappointed like I was with the S14 - it'd feel averagely fast but not as quick as the figures? Variable valve/cam/lift and variable intake thingys have all made petrols not need much revving to be truly performant any more.
Baddie said:
BTW mate, I don't want to enter a geek contest either (too late for me anyway!) and not sure re mechanical injection, but I know race versions of the M88 used purely mechanical injection whereas road versions had at least a partial electronic setup. According to Rosche the purely mechanical set-up could generate much higher injection pressures than contemporary e-systems, leading to shorter injection times and "better torque". The fact that mechanical systems were more compromised over the full range of road operation didn't matter.
No that is interesting actually - indeed the 190 too was designed (when it wasn't going to be roadgoing) on Kugelfischer injection which I understand is completely mechanical. Then for the road they put it on electro-mechanical Bosch, to fit in with the rest of the range and for reliability/driveability. Worst of both worlds IMO!Would like to try the 3.6/3.8 but certain that I'd be completely disappointed like I was with the S14 - it'd feel averagely fast but not as quick as the figures? Variable valve/cam/lift and variable intake thingys have all made petrols not need much revving to be truly performant any more.
Pentoman said:
A few of us have said S52 where we mean S50 (smart alec)
Would like to try the 3.6/3.8 but certain that I'd be completely disappointed like I was with the S14 - it'd feel averagely fast but not as quick as the figures? Variable valve/cam/lift and variable intake thingys have all made petrols not need much revving to be truly performant any more.
Many thanks for your S50-52 observation.Baddie said:
BTW mate, I don't want to enter a geek contest either (too late for me anyway!) and not sure re mechanical injection, but I know race versions of the M88 used purely mechanical injection whereas road versions had at least a partial electronic setup. According to Rosche the purely mechanical set-up could generate much higher injection pressures than contemporary e-systems, leading to shorter injection times and "better torque". The fact that mechanical systems were more compromised over the full range of road operation didn't matter.
No that is interesting actually - indeed the 190 too was designed (when it wasn't going to be roadgoing) on Kugelfischer injection which I understand is completely mechanical. Then for the road they put it on electro-mechanical Bosch, to fit in with the rest of the range and for reliability/driveability. Worst of both worlds IMO!Would like to try the 3.6/3.8 but certain that I'd be completely disappointed like I was with the S14 - it'd feel averagely fast but not as quick as the figures? Variable valve/cam/lift and variable intake thingys have all made petrols not need much revving to be truly performant any more.
A friend has an S50 powered ZM Coupe, I have the 3.8 M5. VANOS just smooths the torque delivery over the range of the engine giving a broader spread and increasing the area under the curve, and hence work done across the range. This allows the S50 to produce peak torque at 3250 rpm and max power at 7400. It may also allow use of more aggressive cams without compromising low speed running. I think these modern motors punch above their peak numbers in terms of raw performance compared to older engines.
I think the S38 is more exciting to drive though. The valve overlap on the S38 gives it a wonderful lumpiness at idle whereas the S50 is silky smooth. In terms of performance of course modern cars have eclipsed it but the way the S38 comes on cam at 4k and doesn't tail off right past 7k is still thrilling, even without the searing soundtrack. I am reliably informed it can also hold onto an E46 M3 once rolling.... There used to be some footage of it going from 0-280 kph but I can't find that. This is of a 3.6 going 60-120 mph instead. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CLiVQ6VcA0&fea...
Edited by Baddie on Sunday 7th September 04:56
i dont no if this counts but im going to say s54 with ess supercharger kit!!! lol cheating but my god i got to ride in a z4m with one of these kits and the power was nothing short of mind blowing, even more impressive was the fact it lost non of the everyday driveability!!!
cheating but i just had to add it!!!
cheating but i just had to add it!!!
Beedub said:
i dont no if this counts but im going to say s54 with ess supercharger kit!!! lol cheating but my god i got to ride in a z4m with one of these kits and the power was nothing short of mind blowing, even more impressive was the fact it lost non of the everyday driveability!!!
cheating but i just had to add it!!!
Without a doubt the S65 / S85 is the most impressive M motor to date, they are both the same motor but the M3 has two less cylinders. I've seen one stripped and incredible is the only word to describe the engineering my behind this mechanical masterpiece.cheating but i just had to add it!!!
With regards to force induction, I consider this rape on an M-Car. Fair enough I understand that the M-Philosophy of Naturally Aspirated engines will not last forever, but until the M-Division do it themselves leave it NA!
A lot of these Supercharger companies originate in America where the roads do not allow for a vehicle to be pushed to its limits as it can in Europe where we can run at 180mph for long periods of time. The SC Kits are bolt on kits with no internal upgrades and in my opinion and experience do not last. The best/reliable route for more power in an M is a stroker motor conversion, not only do you save weight on the engine internals, with the aftermarket pistons, rods etc, but your not strapping a huge heavy SC to the front of your car, seriously unbalancing your weight distribution. Also not one SC company will offer a warranty on your engine if you strap one of their slugs to your car, but the few tuning companies that do stroker conversions do!
Respect M-Division, Respect NA
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