Who has actually suffered a Vanos failure on E36 M3 EVO?
Poll: Who has actually suffered a Vanos failure on E36 M3 EVO?
Total Members Polled: 132
Discussion
gerradiuk said:
No Vanos problems ever.
French good idea & what you said about the wrong oil is so right,the P.O. had put thicker oil in & I was not at all impressed with the car.
After it came back from a service with nice 5w-40w oil it really does take off after the 2500rpm mark, it reminds me of the old twin choke webber carbs.
Is 5w40 what BMW use?French good idea & what you said about the wrong oil is so right,the P.O. had put thicker oil in & I was not at all impressed with the car.
After it came back from a service with nice 5w-40w oil it really does take off after the 2500rpm mark, it reminds me of the old twin choke webber carbs.
I voted for none as i think its probably the closest i think to what happend with me. I had a solinoid stick on mine, car ran perfectly fine when on the gas but ran very lumpy on tickover so decided to replace them as a matter of course. At the time i had got 120k outof the origionals so thought what the heck, just do it and don't worry about it again for a good while !
Edit to add;
I now replace the filters and bolts at every service interval just as preventative maintenance.
Edit to add;
I now replace the filters and bolts at every service interval just as preventative maintenance.
Edited by M3John on Friday 12th December 13:20
Mine had the vanos replaced at 70k at a cost of just over £2000 by a previous owner. When i bought it at 103k it had slight noise, its now on 106k & exactly the same very slight noise, it goes very well though, i did drive a couple of Evo's before i bought mine & they both seemed down on power . Looking at the history mines had the vanos filter changed every other service.
Simon.
Simon.
In my three years of working for a dealer I recall about 7 Vanos replacement jobs being diagnosed and carried out. One failed catastrophically on a Z3M Coupe blowing the front casing to bits and dumping engine oil all around the engine bay and finding its way onto the brake disc causing a hairy moment, luckily the owner was on the motorway. That one had to have a new engine entirely, so counting that one it'd be 8 in total.
So it is a problem to be aware of but in the grand scheme of things at that time it was not that much of an issue. As in comparison we were doing up to 6 block and pistons a week for the M52 engines at some points, now that was a problem.
So it is a problem to be aware of but in the grand scheme of things at that time it was not that much of an issue. As in comparison we were doing up to 6 block and pistons a week for the M52 engines at some points, now that was a problem.
I think this is exactly the sort of info the OP wanted to hear, to be honest I would say that SMG is far more of a problem than the "Vanos" issue's ?! Oh yes I did have to have mine converted to manual & yes I did have to suffer multiple breakdowns on the side of the road due to SMG failure.
gerradiuk said:
I think this is exactly the sort of info the OP wanted to hear, to be honest I would say that SMG is far more of a problem than the "Vanos" issue's ?! Oh yes I did have to have mine converted to manual & yes I did have to suffer multiple breakdowns on the side of the road due to SMG failure.
EXACTLY what he said, word for word ^^^^M3John said:
I voted for none as i think its probably the closest i think to what happend with me. I had a solinoid stick on mine, car ran perfectly fine when on the gas but ran very lumpy on tickover so decided to replace them as a matter of course. At the time i had got 120k outof the origionals so thought what the heck, just do it and don't worry about it again for a good while !
Edit to add;
I now replace the filters and bolts at every service interval just as preventative maintenance.
I have exactly the same issue with my Z3MC with a lumpy idle which clears when on the gas...it is likely to be a vanos problem. Did you have the whole vanos replaced or just the solinoids?Edit to add;
I now replace the filters and bolts at every service interval just as preventative maintenance.
Edited by M3John on Friday 12th December 13:20
M3John said:
gerradiuk said:
I think this is exactly the sort of info the OP wanted to hear, to be honest I would say that SMG is far more of a problem than the "Vanos" issue's ?! Oh yes I did have to have mine converted to manual & yes I did have to suffer multiple breakdowns on the side of the road due to SMG failure.
EXACTLY what he said, word for word ^^^^Tony
simon768622 said:
M3John said:
I voted for none as i think its probably the closest i think to what happend with me. I had a solinoid stick on mine, car ran perfectly fine when on the gas but ran very lumpy on tickover so decided to replace them as a matter of course. At the time i had got 120k outof the origionals so thought what the heck, just do it and don't worry about it again for a good while !
Edit to add;
I now replace the filters and bolts at every service interval just as preventative maintenance.
I have exactly the same issue with my Z3MC with a lumpy idle which clears when on the gas...it is likely to be a vanos problem. Did you have the whole vanos replaced or just the solinoids?Edit to add;
I now replace the filters and bolts at every service interval just as preventative maintenance.
Edited by M3John on Friday 12th December 13:20
spants said:
M3John said:
gerradiuk said:
I think this is exactly the sort of info the OP wanted to hear, to be honest I would say that SMG is far more of a problem than the "Vanos" issue's ?! Oh yes I did have to have mine converted to manual & yes I did have to suffer multiple breakdowns on the side of the road due to SMG failure.
EXACTLY what he said, word for word ^^^^Tony
Just to add an alternative view into the mix
I have 2 S50 engined m cars - both very low mileage 7k and 12k both '99 and '98 year respectivley. And have previously owned a 22k miles S50
Both are on original vanos, both have had bolts done. Both quiet, however on tickover there is 'noise' from the vanos. Not noisey in the sense of something wrong, but a noise seperate from the engine itself, sort of a different 'running' noise. I think a lot of people may worry too much about vanos noise and maybe confuse it with imminent failure. I guess that if you are wondering what a new engine would have sounded like years ago then mine are as close a dammit.
My plan is to drive normally - ie wait till oil is running temp, drive how i wish and allow tickover for a minute or two before switching off after a thrashing. Change oil, filter and vanos filter every 3k miles and thats it.
I would recommend the same as a sort of preventative maintenance and just enjoy.
I used to own a k series engined lotus and the big worry was the well documented HGF. However with any highly strung engine producing a lot of power for capacity if you show mechanical sympathy and service regularly then you would be very unlucky to suffer problems.
just my thoughts :-)
Matt
I have 2 S50 engined m cars - both very low mileage 7k and 12k both '99 and '98 year respectivley. And have previously owned a 22k miles S50
Both are on original vanos, both have had bolts done. Both quiet, however on tickover there is 'noise' from the vanos. Not noisey in the sense of something wrong, but a noise seperate from the engine itself, sort of a different 'running' noise. I think a lot of people may worry too much about vanos noise and maybe confuse it with imminent failure. I guess that if you are wondering what a new engine would have sounded like years ago then mine are as close a dammit.
My plan is to drive normally - ie wait till oil is running temp, drive how i wish and allow tickover for a minute or two before switching off after a thrashing. Change oil, filter and vanos filter every 3k miles and thats it.
I would recommend the same as a sort of preventative maintenance and just enjoy.
I used to own a k series engined lotus and the big worry was the well documented HGF. However with any highly strung engine producing a lot of power for capacity if you show mechanical sympathy and service regularly then you would be very unlucky to suffer problems.
just my thoughts :-)
Matt
Reply to Simon 78622:-
I bought my M3 EVO 2 years ago, it had had the Vanos replaced in 2004. August last year it developed a lumpy idle, (in fact, lumpy up to roughly 2500rpm) and a lack of 'kick' above 6000rpm.
After reading many posts, I decided to check the ICV (Idle Control Valve), found it to be clean, but also found the crankcase breather hose and a rubber cap on the Fuel Preparation Circuit to be perished. Thinking this air-leak must be the problem, I replaced the perished parts, but it made no difference.
Eventually, after much scratching of head, I took it for a diagnostic. The error codes were "24 - Ignition Coil, Cylinder 3" and "22 - Advance Valve, Vanos Exhaust". My heart sank when I was given the code for the Vanos. I replaced the ignition coil, slightly less misfire, but still a lumpy idle.
I then did a ridiculous amount of reading up on Vanos problems and had a good think.
I worked out that the 'Advance Valve, Vanos exhaust' was the solenoid that controlled the oil supply to the piston in the vanos that advanced the exhaust cam timing by way of applying pressure to a helical gear that shoves in. I know this sounds complicated, but essentially I was looking at a solenoid failure which caused the exhaust cam to be constantly retarded. This would cause lumpy idle.
There are 4 solenoids in total in the Vanos for the European E36 M3 Evo. 2 for the Intake cam, and 2 for the exhaust cam. Each pair of solenoids has a 3-pin plug. Centre pin common negative, 1 outer pin, voltage supply (12V) for advance, the other outer pin, voltage supply (12V) for retard. Each solenoid should have an electrical resistance of roughly 4 Ohms. I measured mine (measure from centre pin to each outer pin in turn), 1 was reading 4 Ohms, the other was reading infinity......Bingo!
I popped the exhaust solenoids out, and..... Hey Presto...... There was a wire off! I soldered it on, sorted!
While I had the solenoids out, I noticed that the o-rings were hard and brittle, (There's 2 on each solenoid). So, as a precaution, I changed all 8 (for all 4 solenoids). This is a fairly simple procedure, see http://mukerji.co.uk/category/vanos/ and :- http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/xforums/topic.asp?h=0... I've contributed near the bottom.
I've now bought a diagnostic unit of my own (Autel Maxidiag EU702) and cleared the trouble codes.
So, in summary, I'd say, get a diagnostic and take it from there. And for anyone else reading this post, if your vanos is not too noisy (there's always some growl), do some preventive maintenance:-
Replace the vanos solenoid cover bolts immediately, and replace them every inspection II
Replace the vanos filter
If you feel like it, and it's really not that difficult, replace all the o-rings on the vanos solenoids.
Finally, I noticed my vanos solenoids had been moving around a bit, there was evidence of wear on the end of them, so, I put shims (made out of disks cut from a coke can) between them and the solenoid covers. This should not only reduce vibration behind the solenoid covers (A possible cause of bolt failure!), but should also reduce wear of the o-rings.
Total cost of 'overhaul' of the vanos, (parts obtained from BMW) £31!
Hope this helps.
I have photos of the shims that I added if anyone wants to see them. I'm not sure how to upload photos though.
regards,
Dan.
I bought my M3 EVO 2 years ago, it had had the Vanos replaced in 2004. August last year it developed a lumpy idle, (in fact, lumpy up to roughly 2500rpm) and a lack of 'kick' above 6000rpm.
After reading many posts, I decided to check the ICV (Idle Control Valve), found it to be clean, but also found the crankcase breather hose and a rubber cap on the Fuel Preparation Circuit to be perished. Thinking this air-leak must be the problem, I replaced the perished parts, but it made no difference.
Eventually, after much scratching of head, I took it for a diagnostic. The error codes were "24 - Ignition Coil, Cylinder 3" and "22 - Advance Valve, Vanos Exhaust". My heart sank when I was given the code for the Vanos. I replaced the ignition coil, slightly less misfire, but still a lumpy idle.
I then did a ridiculous amount of reading up on Vanos problems and had a good think.
I worked out that the 'Advance Valve, Vanos exhaust' was the solenoid that controlled the oil supply to the piston in the vanos that advanced the exhaust cam timing by way of applying pressure to a helical gear that shoves in. I know this sounds complicated, but essentially I was looking at a solenoid failure which caused the exhaust cam to be constantly retarded. This would cause lumpy idle.
There are 4 solenoids in total in the Vanos for the European E36 M3 Evo. 2 for the Intake cam, and 2 for the exhaust cam. Each pair of solenoids has a 3-pin plug. Centre pin common negative, 1 outer pin, voltage supply (12V) for advance, the other outer pin, voltage supply (12V) for retard. Each solenoid should have an electrical resistance of roughly 4 Ohms. I measured mine (measure from centre pin to each outer pin in turn), 1 was reading 4 Ohms, the other was reading infinity......Bingo!
I popped the exhaust solenoids out, and..... Hey Presto...... There was a wire off! I soldered it on, sorted!
While I had the solenoids out, I noticed that the o-rings were hard and brittle, (There's 2 on each solenoid). So, as a precaution, I changed all 8 (for all 4 solenoids). This is a fairly simple procedure, see http://mukerji.co.uk/category/vanos/ and :- http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/xforums/topic.asp?h=0... I've contributed near the bottom.
I've now bought a diagnostic unit of my own (Autel Maxidiag EU702) and cleared the trouble codes.
So, in summary, I'd say, get a diagnostic and take it from there. And for anyone else reading this post, if your vanos is not too noisy (there's always some growl), do some preventive maintenance:-
Replace the vanos solenoid cover bolts immediately, and replace them every inspection II
Replace the vanos filter
If you feel like it, and it's really not that difficult, replace all the o-rings on the vanos solenoids.
Finally, I noticed my vanos solenoids had been moving around a bit, there was evidence of wear on the end of them, so, I put shims (made out of disks cut from a coke can) between them and the solenoid covers. This should not only reduce vibration behind the solenoid covers (A possible cause of bolt failure!), but should also reduce wear of the o-rings.
Total cost of 'overhaul' of the vanos, (parts obtained from BMW) £31!
Hope this helps.
I have photos of the shims that I added if anyone wants to see them. I'm not sure how to upload photos though.
regards,
Dan.
Edited by DanB99 on Friday 2nd January 23:28
As a little addendum to my previous post.
What do I think would have happened if I'd taken my car to the dealer with the lumpy idle problem? (and it was a very annoying problem making it virtually undriveable in slow traffic!)
At best? They probably would have replaced the solenoids, at a cost of £250 a pair!
At worst? back in the early days of the E36 M3 Evo, under warranty, with a 'Slightly noisy' Vanos, they may have replaced 'The entire Vanos!'
My point? Many of the early reported Vanos 'problems' may have been fixable for very little money.
What do I think would have happened if I'd taken my car to the dealer with the lumpy idle problem? (and it was a very annoying problem making it virtually undriveable in slow traffic!)
At best? They probably would have replaced the solenoids, at a cost of £250 a pair!
At worst? back in the early days of the E36 M3 Evo, under warranty, with a 'Slightly noisy' Vanos, they may have replaced 'The entire Vanos!'
My point? Many of the early reported Vanos 'problems' may have been fixable for very little money.
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