Z4M 2007 Problems at high speed
Discussion
As for the power output they got two attempts at the rolling road so they are correct, and they have dynos to prove it at there office at the moment, it maybe up on power due to the underlying issue so we shall have to see, they did not think it caused any concern so I assume this is what they was expecting to see.
The problem unfortunately is still there during the rolling road test we simulated so the air filter is not an option which is rather anoying if it was, the engine has been stripped so many times now its starting to seem as though ill never find out, here comes a upgrade i think M5 V10 
)))
Seriously im not one to back out of a challenge and fortunatley nor is the company I am working closely with, one of the best motor companys I have had the privelege to work with!
The car will hopefully be back into BMW today and maybe with some god help they may speak to PUMA and get a clue whats going wrong the only saving at the moment is the fuel im not burning just the insurance lol.
The car on a seperate note seems to be worse when hot so we at least have another direction to go in, but it is still uncertain whether it is mechanical or electrical, im still betting electrical but we are all running out of ideas now.
)))Seriously im not one to back out of a challenge and fortunatley nor is the company I am working closely with, one of the best motor companys I have had the privelege to work with!
The car will hopefully be back into BMW today and maybe with some god help they may speak to PUMA and get a clue whats going wrong the only saving at the moment is the fuel im not burning just the insurance lol.
The car on a seperate note seems to be worse when hot so we at least have another direction to go in, but it is still uncertain whether it is mechanical or electrical, im still betting electrical but we are all running out of ideas now.
Update 3000 lol
Anyway back in BMW since wednesday last week, and guess what they took it straight out with out even asking the company which brought it in what they had tested, following this and what they thought was wrong they spoke to the company and ruled out everything they thought, surprise surprise!!!
Anyway today they have found the problem 100% guaranteed ha YA RIGHT guess what they say it is MAF, fantastic right eeerrr no, kinda a basic thing that the fact that MAD has told them that they have bypassed the unit and changed for a new one they still say this is the problem, laying in the car which I brought is the brand new OEM MAF eeeerrr thought they might have seen that ay guess not.
well here we go again what is it with BMW engineers recently are they all that dumb??
They have been clearly told what they have checked and they are just not listening.
Update soon.
Nick
Anyway back in BMW since wednesday last week, and guess what they took it straight out with out even asking the company which brought it in what they had tested, following this and what they thought was wrong they spoke to the company and ruled out everything they thought, surprise surprise!!!
Anyway today they have found the problem 100% guaranteed ha YA RIGHT guess what they say it is MAF, fantastic right eeerrr no, kinda a basic thing that the fact that MAD has told them that they have bypassed the unit and changed for a new one they still say this is the problem, laying in the car which I brought is the brand new OEM MAF eeeerrr thought they might have seen that ay guess not.
well here we go again what is it with BMW engineers recently are they all that dumb??
They have been clearly told what they have checked and they are just not listening.
Update soon.
Nick
nickboyessex said:
well here we go again what is it with BMW engineers recently are they all that dumb??
From my experience, they're not engineers or technicians at all, they are simply fitters who will replace part after part, as instructed by their computer system, until the problem is fixed, or you run out of cash/patience.mmm-five said:
From my experience, they're not engineers or technicians at all, they are simply fitters who will replace part after part, as instructed by their computer system, until the problem is fixed, or you run out of cash/patience.
Disagree! The one at the dealer I use is a Master Tech and really knows his stuff but more importantly is a real petrolhead - he builds, fettles and races cars in his spare time.As for the computer system, TIS, its not really a diagnosis tool other than fault code information and settings. It holds the dissassembly / reassembly data; a more comprehensive Haynes Manual.
With the complicated systems on the car and sometimes a lack of sensor codes and component test equipment to indicate a hard fault the method is to swop stuff out of the sub-system. That can be helped by the knowledge based system the dealers have access to (faults, issues, resolution blog) and hindered by BMW dictating the cheapest part replace first.
In the case above it would need a rolling road as a main dealer to sort. Not many of those. I would consider using one of the BMW racing tuners. Simpson or Thorney.
Iain,
It has been on a rolling road with read outs, however you limited time before the fault occurs and as you are aware i am sure they can only go on 4 wheel rolling road as the wheel revolution sensors through pretty much all BMW cars into lock down.
The issue with BMW is they WILL NOT REPLACE any parts unless the customer PAYS for it even if it is the wrong part??? WHY complete rip off all BMW dealers have to abide to this methode as far as I know.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Nick
It has been on a rolling road with read outs, however you limited time before the fault occurs and as you are aware i am sure they can only go on 4 wheel rolling road as the wheel revolution sensors through pretty much all BMW cars into lock down.
The issue with BMW is they WILL NOT REPLACE any parts unless the customer PAYS for it even if it is the wrong part??? WHY complete rip off all BMW dealers have to abide to this methode as far as I know.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Nick
ian in lancs said:
Disagree! The one at the dealer I use is a Master Tech and really knows his stuff but more importantly is a real petrolhead - he builds, fettles and races cars in his spare time.
The dealership might have a master tech, and he might have the skills to do the job, but it doesn't mean they're working on your car or that they've been given enough time to do a thorough check. They may 'supervise' an apprentice or more junior member of the team but you just don't know.I supposedly had a master tech working on my e34 M5 when they managed to forget to put any coolant back in after replacing the water pump. The excuse I got was that it was the fault of an apprentice - "as we all have to start somewhere, sir!" - even though I pointed out the jobsheet was countersigned by the Master Tech to say he'd double-checked everything. You can read about my history of issues with some BMW dealers on the M5Board under the same user name.
ian in lancs said:
As for the computer system, TIS, its not really a diagnosis tool other than fault code information and settings. It holds the dissassembly / reassembly data; a more comprehensive Haynes Manual.
I wasn't referring to the basic TIS software, but the full fault diagnosis system they have access to.afternoon, lads
the car has now been with ,BMW for 3 weeks this wednesday and they cannot diagnose the issue, they have tried to tell me that 4 MAF sensors could be faulty and the most recent that a earth both has caused the issue eer NO!!
Less use our brains for once earth bolts from the engine cause irratic starting and will arc across the bolt or lights will do strange things not flat spots and engine dying with no fault codes!!!
Well what they have said now is that because the car may have been in a accident in its life like most cars they will not uphold the warranty and they now want 23hrs of labour before they will go any further with fault finding on the vehicle. They cannot tell me if th reapir has caused the issue they say there may be a screw through a wiring loom or someone may have plugged the wrong plug into th wrong sensor, correct me if im wrong but all plugs are different and chassis earth with a screw would through fault codes!!!
The problem is I cannot afford to take there opinion any more they still do not know where it is warranty or not and want cash up front even though they have no idea.
Correct me if I seem off but whats stopping them from saying its down to a possible accident that they car may have had in its past even though I have driven the car for 4 months after purchasing and car drove fine they will not listen to reason and are just after money, I do not plan on paying them anything!!
If anyone is up for stripping the car with me or can give me any ideas then by all means, otherwise I can see me selling the car what a f****ing shame!
Regards
Nick
the car has now been with ,BMW for 3 weeks this wednesday and they cannot diagnose the issue, they have tried to tell me that 4 MAF sensors could be faulty and the most recent that a earth both has caused the issue eer NO!!
Less use our brains for once earth bolts from the engine cause irratic starting and will arc across the bolt or lights will do strange things not flat spots and engine dying with no fault codes!!!
Well what they have said now is that because the car may have been in a accident in its life like most cars they will not uphold the warranty and they now want 23hrs of labour before they will go any further with fault finding on the vehicle. They cannot tell me if th reapir has caused the issue they say there may be a screw through a wiring loom or someone may have plugged the wrong plug into th wrong sensor, correct me if im wrong but all plugs are different and chassis earth with a screw would through fault codes!!!
The problem is I cannot afford to take there opinion any more they still do not know where it is warranty or not and want cash up front even though they have no idea.
Correct me if I seem off but whats stopping them from saying its down to a possible accident that they car may have had in its past even though I have driven the car for 4 months after purchasing and car drove fine they will not listen to reason and are just after money, I do not plan on paying them anything!!
If anyone is up for stripping the car with me or can give me any ideas then by all means, otherwise I can see me selling the car what a f****ing shame!
Regards
Nick
Sorry to hear about all your troubles mate, its the sort of thing I have nightmares about!! my S54 Z3M has had a hesitation at WOT since I bought it but it doesnt jump into limp mode. I wouldn't bother taking it to BMW any further, you'll just hemerage money for nothing!
Has noone had any similar issue over on the z4/e46 m3 forums?
Has noone had any similar issue over on the z4/e46 m3 forums?
Unfortunately not it seems to be a very unheard of issue which is like non existent lol, I am seriously considering taking the engine out and stripping it but just a bit of a mission for little gain as far as i can see.
I am going to try and get the car out tomorrow as they have not got a clue!!! I think I know more to be completely honest.
It has got to be electrical but something thats not recorded as a fault but can kill the engine into limp mode>
Sounds easy right lol.
I wish.
Nick
I am going to try and get the car out tomorrow as they have not got a clue!!! I think I know more to be completely honest.
It has got to be electrical but something thats not recorded as a fault but can kill the engine into limp mode>
Sounds easy right lol.
I wish.
Nick
I came across this on another site, car in question is 130i but bear with me;
"I had an issue with my 2008 where I'd get Reduced Power and occasional SES lights after extended highway driving...turned out that BMW made some defective bearing ledges - removable pieces on the intake manifold that have your camshaft bearings in them. The defective bearing ledges were actuallly wearing at the o-ring seal between them and the camshaft, allowing oil pressure to bleed off of the VANOS actuator and causing unexpected (i.e. different than the ECU had ordered) timing. There is a service bulletin on it somewhere."
This was then followed by;
"Reduced Power Complaints On Some BMW Engines Equipped with VANOS
Power Reduction, FC 2A82 Intake VANOS and/or FC 2A87 Exhaust VANOS Camshaft Faults are Stored in DME
AFFECTED MODELS/ENGINES
E82 and E88 (1 Series) with N51, N52K and N54 engines produced from 1/2008
E90 and E91 (3 Series) with N52 engine produced from 3/2005 through 6/ 2006
E90, E91, E92 and E93 (3 Series) with N51, N52K and N54 engines produced from 7/2006
E85 and E86 (Z4) with N52 engine produced from 1/2006
E83 (X3) with N52K engine produced from 9/2006
E60 and E61 (5 Series) with N52, N52K and N54 engines produced from 3/2005
E70 (X5) with N52K engine produced from 10/2006
E71 (X6) with N54 engine produced from 1/2008
The “Service Engine Soon” (MIL) lamp is illuminated and a power reduction is clearly perceptible. This situation can occur after driving for some time with the engine already at full operating temperature. If the ignition is cycled, the engine then usually performs normally.
The following faults are stored in the DME:
2A82 VANOS intake - stiff; jammed mechanically
2A87 VANOS exhaust - stiff; jammed mechanically
3100 Boost-pressure control, deactivation - boost-pressure buildup prohibited (N54 only)
The VANOS faults are caused by an insufficient oil pressure supply to the inlet VANOS adjustment unit. To effectively move the camshafts to the target positions in the specified time and under all engine conditions, sufficient oil pressure supply to the VANOS control pistons must always be available. When the engine operation requires that the VANOS quickly advance or retard the intake or exhaust camshaft, fault 2A82 or 2A87 may be set if the camshaft is “late,” or does not reach the target position. In this situation, engine power may be reduced and a check control message is displayed. The consequential fault 3100 can also be set in the DME fault memory as well."
Dont know if it helps
S
"I had an issue with my 2008 where I'd get Reduced Power and occasional SES lights after extended highway driving...turned out that BMW made some defective bearing ledges - removable pieces on the intake manifold that have your camshaft bearings in them. The defective bearing ledges were actuallly wearing at the o-ring seal between them and the camshaft, allowing oil pressure to bleed off of the VANOS actuator and causing unexpected (i.e. different than the ECU had ordered) timing. There is a service bulletin on it somewhere."
This was then followed by;
"Reduced Power Complaints On Some BMW Engines Equipped with VANOS
Power Reduction, FC 2A82 Intake VANOS and/or FC 2A87 Exhaust VANOS Camshaft Faults are Stored in DME
AFFECTED MODELS/ENGINES
E82 and E88 (1 Series) with N51, N52K and N54 engines produced from 1/2008
E90 and E91 (3 Series) with N52 engine produced from 3/2005 through 6/ 2006
E90, E91, E92 and E93 (3 Series) with N51, N52K and N54 engines produced from 7/2006
E85 and E86 (Z4) with N52 engine produced from 1/2006
E83 (X3) with N52K engine produced from 9/2006
E60 and E61 (5 Series) with N52, N52K and N54 engines produced from 3/2005
E70 (X5) with N52K engine produced from 10/2006
E71 (X6) with N54 engine produced from 1/2008
The “Service Engine Soon” (MIL) lamp is illuminated and a power reduction is clearly perceptible. This situation can occur after driving for some time with the engine already at full operating temperature. If the ignition is cycled, the engine then usually performs normally.
The following faults are stored in the DME:
2A82 VANOS intake - stiff; jammed mechanically
2A87 VANOS exhaust - stiff; jammed mechanically
3100 Boost-pressure control, deactivation - boost-pressure buildup prohibited (N54 only)
The VANOS faults are caused by an insufficient oil pressure supply to the inlet VANOS adjustment unit. To effectively move the camshafts to the target positions in the specified time and under all engine conditions, sufficient oil pressure supply to the VANOS control pistons must always be available. When the engine operation requires that the VANOS quickly advance or retard the intake or exhaust camshaft, fault 2A82 or 2A87 may be set if the camshaft is “late,” or does not reach the target position. In this situation, engine power may be reduced and a check control message is displayed. The consequential fault 3100 can also be set in the DME fault memory as well."
Dont know if it helps
S
All,
Thanks for looking around if your anything like me you are just as interested in finding the fault, being as its such a unusual issue that no one including BMW have ever heard of it.
The Vanos issue does seem a plausible issue the only thing is the faults being displayed are internal DME fault mas air flow sensor, which as we all know now has been replaced x times, they have also as stated before tried linking between the DME and MAF to rule out wiring but no change.
The car when cold is awsome no issues, when reaching a heated / normal operating temp is gives me issues and is dangerous to drive "stated by BMW themselves".
I have a possibility but cannot prove it yet as only have limited information, I have been told the car performs two stages of startup.
1: pre heat startup
2: normal running change over
If this is true I would assume there would be a difference in sensors used and possible ranges, if some one including BMW could work out which sensors are not looked at during the primary cycle then we may be one step closer!!!
If it was me I would have brought another engine by now and changed it or purchased at the least a full set of sensors and replaced one at a time to prove its not sensor related then you have engine internals but this is BMW.
Thanks
Nick
Thanks for looking around if your anything like me you are just as interested in finding the fault, being as its such a unusual issue that no one including BMW have ever heard of it.
The Vanos issue does seem a plausible issue the only thing is the faults being displayed are internal DME fault mas air flow sensor, which as we all know now has been replaced x times, they have also as stated before tried linking between the DME and MAF to rule out wiring but no change.
The car when cold is awsome no issues, when reaching a heated / normal operating temp is gives me issues and is dangerous to drive "stated by BMW themselves".
I have a possibility but cannot prove it yet as only have limited information, I have been told the car performs two stages of startup.
1: pre heat startup
2: normal running change over
If this is true I would assume there would be a difference in sensors used and possible ranges, if some one including BMW could work out which sensors are not looked at during the primary cycle then we may be one step closer!!!
If it was me I would have brought another engine by now and changed it or purchased at the least a full set of sensors and replaced one at a time to prove its not sensor related then you have engine internals but this is BMW.
Thanks
Nick
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