E46 Brake upgrade

E46 Brake upgrade

Author
Discussion

youdsy

Original Poster:

48 posts

177 months

Tuesday 21st December 2010
quotequote all
hi all

looking to upgrade my front disks and calipers on my E46 M3 in the new Year. Been looking at the Ap Racing kit and was wondering what to go for? Firstly is there a need for 6-pot calipers as opposed to 4 pots? are they ovekill? The car is mainly used for road use and havent tracked it as of yet but may do in the future. The standard brakes arent the best as im sure you are all aware of. Will i be better off buying 4 pot calipers and disks or shall i go all out and buy the 6 pots?


Also they are lots of different kits offered by AP racing, anyone point me in the right direction as to which kit would be the best for the M3.

any comments/advice would be appreciated

thanks in advance

Edited by youdsy on Tuesday 21st December 11:50

scz4

2,497 posts

240 months

Tuesday 21st December 2010
quotequote all
Thorney Motorsport say this about the E36 M3, it's only about 100kg lighter:

"The E36 M3 has two choices from AP, a four piston kit and a six piston kit. The four piston kit is really all you need (even for racing) but you need to make sure your wheel choice is suitable. To check to see if your wheels are suitable download this AP Racing wheel measuring kit, it will show what kits you can fit without needing spacers etc."


Tango13

8,395 posts

175 months

Tuesday 21st December 2010
quotequote all
I downloaded the PDF from AP when I put the sixpots on the M5. Even though the template was spot on for size it still fouled the wheel rim BUT even AP themselves say the PDF errs on the pessimistic side. Sure enough when it came to fit them there was enough clearance Clarence with only a balance weight needing moving.

Paul_M3

2,356 posts

184 months

Tuesday 21st December 2010
quotequote all
AP only do a 6 pot kit for the e46 M3. The 4 pot kit is for the rear.

Most e46 M3 brake kits are 6 pot on the front.

I have the AP kit on the front of mine, and it's fantastic. It is also designed to fit under OEM 18" wheels as well as the 19" ones.

youdsy

Original Poster:

48 posts

177 months

Wednesday 22nd December 2010
quotequote all
ok thanks for that, 6 pots it is then. I knew that AP did the 4 pots for the rear, just assumed that they did a 4 pot caliper for the fronts.

I have the 19"CSL alloys so clearance shouldnt be an issue. Looking at the kits, there are a few to choose from in terms of size and style of disk. Any recommendations as to which one i should go for?

thanks

Paul_M3

2,356 posts

184 months

Wednesday 22nd December 2010
quotequote all
They do two calipers, one is slightly thinner and designed to fit under 18" OEM wheels as well.

I would suggest getting this one. The performance difference will be minor, and it might be useful at some point.
(I also had CSL wheels when I bought the kit, but a few months later bought some OEM 18" wheels to use on track only. I wouldn't have been able to do this with the thicker caliper)

taffyracer

2,093 posts

242 months

Wednesday 22nd December 2010
quotequote all
I never ever had any issues on track with the standard set up once the pads, hoses and fluid was uprated which a amounts to about a 1/4 of the AP cost, the AP kit is overkill, yes it's better but it's not 4x better, the difference is negligible on road and only slightly better on track

Edited by taffyracer on Wednesday 22 December 08:32

youdsy

Original Poster:

48 posts

177 months

Wednesday 22nd December 2010
quotequote all
thats what i was thinking in terms of the AP Kit being overkill, just thought id pose the question. They do look the bees knees when installed yet its alot of money just to make the brakes look nice.

if the difference isnt worth the upgrade price then ill stick with the standard set up. Although arent the standard calipers dual piston only? what pads, hoses and fluid do you recommend that i upgrade to?

swtmerce

213 posts

206 months

Wednesday 22nd December 2010
quotequote all
youdsy said:
Although arent the standard calipers dual piston only? what pads, hoses and fluid do you recommend that i upgrade to?
I don't think they're even twin piston!

Answers for pads will come from Pagid e.g. RS29, Performance Friction e.g. 06 compound or budget EBC yellow or blue NDX.

HEL or Goodridge braided lines and fluid such as Motul RBF600/660, ATE Super Blue (cheap), Castrol SRF (expensive)

Paul_M3

2,356 posts

184 months

Wednesday 22nd December 2010
quotequote all
I tried the standard brakes with better pad, fluid and hoses.

It did work well, but I was getting fade towards the end of 15-20 minute sessions at Snetterton.

No way would they have coped with somewhere like Bedford Autodrome. (for me, anyway)

If you think you will only do one or two trackdays, then it probably isn't worth it.
If you intend to do more, than they are definitely worth considering.

They are expensive, but the confidence they inspire is much greater than the standard set-up. It is virtually impossible to get them to fade.

(The standard calipers are single piston incidentally. Although it is a bloody great piston!)

thehos

923 posts

183 months

Wednesday 22nd December 2010
quotequote all
taffyracer said:
I never ever had any issues on track with the standard set up once the pads, hoses and fluid was uprated which a amounts to about a 1/4 of the AP cost, the AP kit is overkill, yes it's better but it's not 4x better, the difference is negligible on road and only slightly better on track

Edited by taffyracer on Wednesday 22 December 08:32
from experiance i wouldnt say the difference between ap and oem is negligible, standard m3 brakes are shocking, I know ap is expensive, but you do get what you pay for

Edited by thehos on Wednesday 22 December 20:03


Edited by thehos on Wednesday 22 December 20:14

taffyracer

2,093 posts

242 months

Wednesday 22nd December 2010
quotequote all
thehos said:
taffyracer said:
I never ever had any issues on track with the standard set up once the pads, hoses and fluid was uprated which a amounts to about a 1/4 of the AP cost, the AP kit is overkill, yes it's better but it's not 4x better, the difference is negligible on road and only slightly better on track

Edited by taffyracer on Wednesday 22 December 08:32
from experiance i wouldnt say the difference between ap and oem is negligible, standard m3 brakes are shocking, I know ap is expensive, but you do get what you pay for
I said the "differennce is negligible on the road", i agree the AP's are better and yes they look good and yes they will perform better, i've used both extensively, but we're talking small amounts here, as mentioned if you plan to track the car a fair bit then that extra performance might be justified, but don't be fooled by the standard forum AP old chestnut, OEM's with the right pad/fluid/hoses can be very good indeed, big brakes don't make a braking god

youdsy

Original Poster:

48 posts

177 months

Wednesday 22nd December 2010
quotequote all
brembo or AP Racing? which one would you suggest is the better of the 2?

Paul_M3

2,356 posts

184 months

Wednesday 22nd December 2010
quotequote all
youdsy said:
brembo or AP Racing? which one would you suggest is the better of the 2?
Not sure which is better, but AP racing is by far the most commonly used on e46 M3's / CSL's.

This may mean replacement pads etc are more easily available.

Unless the Brembo kit is cheaper, I'd go for the AP racing one.

thehos

923 posts

183 months

Wednesday 22nd December 2010
quotequote all
taffyracer said:
thehos said:
taffyracer said:
I never ever had any issues on track with the standard set up once the pads, hoses and fluid was uprated which a amounts to about a 1/4 of the AP cost, the AP kit is overkill, yes it's better but it's not 4x better, the difference is negligible on road and only slightly better on track

Edited by taffyracer on Wednesday 22 December 08:32
from experiance i wouldnt say the difference between ap and oem is negligible, standard m3 brakes are shocking, I know ap is expensive, but you do get what you pay for
I said the "differennce is negligible on the road", i agree the AP's are better and yes they look good and yes they will perform better, i've used both extensively, but we're talking small amounts here, as mentioned if you plan to track the car a fair bit then that extra performance might be justified, but don't be fooled by the standard forum AP old chestnut, OEM's with the right pad/fluid/hoses can be very good indeed, big brakes don't make a braking god
I know, but as i said ive had both and the standard brakes were causing so many problems, road use i might add, re-built the calipers, still no difference, i had orange brake dics on 1 particular drive, perhaps it was a one off, all i can say to the op is do your research before you spend you hard earned!

shim

2,050 posts

207 months

Wednesday 22nd December 2010
quotequote all
As Paul says above AP racing Cp5575 front kit is a tried and tested upgrade suitabkle for trackdays at any circuit with the right pads and fluid.

Any other callipers wont give you any btter performance as the APs already are at the limit if the tyre grip.

My APs have done 60k miles inc 50 trackdays and this year i changed the piston seals purely as preventative maintenace.

DONT use the supplied pads on track but buy Pagid RS29 or PF01 at the front of pad deposit with the high temps can make your discs feel like they have been warped.

foz01

764 posts

262 months

Thursday 23rd December 2010
quotequote all
Also consider k sport, can get a front and rear kit for less than fronts alone.. We have them on our lancer evo track car and they can sure handle some serious abuse, the ap which I have had in the past are simply impossible to justify the extra price unless you are a badge snob, with good pads and fluid they are fantastic in my experience smile

mat205125

17,790 posts

212 months

Thursday 23rd December 2010
quotequote all
Don't ignore the "used" route.

I sourced my AP calipers from my local dealer (through a friend working in another one of their franchises) for a bargain £500 for all four, including all of the hoses and mounts to fit them. I then sourced the front rotors, bells and fixings from BG, and a set of pads elsewhere. Factor in the few hundred quid that I got from selling the standard calipers and front part worn discs on ebay, and my entire AP conversion didn't cost much more than a grand all in.

Once fitted, you then have the added bonus (on top of the obvious performance gains) that the availability of pad compounds and manufacturers is extensive to the point of being bewildering, and the cost for a replacement set of pads and rotors (when required) are actually cheaper than the main dealer cost of OEM parts.

youdsy

Original Poster:

48 posts

177 months

Friday 24th December 2010
quotequote all
shim said:
As Paul says above AP racing Cp5575 front kit is a tried and tested upgrade suitabkle for trackdays at any circuit with the right pads and fluid.

Any other callipers wont give you any btter performance as the APs already are at the limit if the tyre grip.

My APs have done 60k miles inc 50 trackdays and this year i changed the piston seals purely as preventative maintenace.

DONT use the supplied pads on track but buy Pagid RS29 or PF01 at the front of pad deposit with the high temps can make your discs feel like they have been warped.
how do the Pagid RS29 pads cope with street driving? are they ok for driving at such low speeds without getting any real heat into like you do when u use them on the track? Read a few reviews and for racing them seem very good but for everyday use on the road im not so sure, do they squeak at all on the road?

shim

2,050 posts

207 months

Friday 24th December 2010
quotequote all
they are ok, no real problem with lack of peal when cold, BUT they do/can squeal and send you potty!

RS14 dont squeal and work better whne cold but a little more abrasive-my choice however for road /track

shimmy

youdsy said:
shim said:
As Paul says above AP racing Cp5575 front kit is a tried and tested upgrade suitabkle for trackdays at any circuit with the right pads and fluid.

Any other callipers wont give you any btter performance as the APs already are at the limit if the tyre grip.

My APs have done 60k miles inc 50 trackdays and this year i changed the piston seals purely as preventative maintenace.

DONT use the supplied pads on track but buy Pagid RS29 or PF01 at the front of pad deposit with the high temps can make your discs feel like they have been warped.
how do the Pagid RS29 pads cope with street driving? are they ok for driving at such low speeds without getting any real heat into like you do when u use them on the track? Read a few reviews and for racing them seem very good but for everyday use on the road im not so sure, do they squeak at all on the road?