E61 Clutch Judder repair result (at last)
Discussion
Hi Eddie
I remember you from the RS246 forum, as I had an RS6 Avant before I swapped to my current 2006 M6.
I love the car to bits (apart from the fuel thirst) but I am getting issues with my clutch I think. When I do a short trip in the car, there is no problem. However if the trip is over say 30 miles, I get juddering from the clutch when pulling away in 1st. It is also virtually impossible to make a smooth start from 1st ie the power comes on immediately like a light switch!
Are these the sort of symptoms you were having?
Must say, we need the equivalent of a Grizz for these V10's !!
I remember you from the RS246 forum, as I had an RS6 Avant before I swapped to my current 2006 M6.
I love the car to bits (apart from the fuel thirst) but I am getting issues with my clutch I think. When I do a short trip in the car, there is no problem. However if the trip is over say 30 miles, I get juddering from the clutch when pulling away in 1st. It is also virtually impossible to make a smooth start from 1st ie the power comes on immediately like a light switch!
Are these the sort of symptoms you were having?
Must say, we need the equivalent of a Grizz for these V10's !!
T7mbo1 said:
Hi Eddie
I remember you from the RS246 forum, as I had an RS6 Avant before I swapped to my current 2006 M6.
I love the car to bits (apart from the fuel thirst) but I am getting issues with my clutch I think. When I do a short trip in the car, there is no problem. However if the trip is over say 30 miles, I get juddering from the clutch when pulling away in 1st. It is also virtually impossible to make a smooth start from 1st ie the power comes on immediately like a light switch!
Are these the sort of symptoms you were having?
Must say, we need the equivalent of a Grizz for these V10's !!
Hi mate, good to see you are still around. I think it was a good time to move from the C5's, have you seen the resale values lately? Ouch!!!I remember you from the RS246 forum, as I had an RS6 Avant before I swapped to my current 2006 M6.
I love the car to bits (apart from the fuel thirst) but I am getting issues with my clutch I think. When I do a short trip in the car, there is no problem. However if the trip is over say 30 miles, I get juddering from the clutch when pulling away in 1st. It is also virtually impossible to make a smooth start from 1st ie the power comes on immediately like a light switch!
Are these the sort of symptoms you were having?
Must say, we need the equivalent of a Grizz for these V10's !!
As for your judder issue. In a word, YES! What you are experiencing in my opinion is the bearing catching / dragging on the guide bush. Once it warms up (ie after the 30 miles) the bush expands, making it difficult for the bearing to move along the bush - this is the judder! It'll only get worse.
What is the mileage on the car? If the mileage is high, ie above 50/60k then they might not entertain it, blaming it on normal wear and tear, unless of course its a clear cut issue like mine was. If its sub 50k then you need to print off the pics on my first couple of threads and head down to your dealer. See what they say, but dont take any crap.
Eddie
ecain63 said:
Got the car back this afternoon and all is well. The handover was seemless and the staff were very helpfull and attentive. They ran me through the sequence of events and the obvious issue with the bearing and bush. Everything made sense and they were only too pleased to have had the photos and research info for reference during the job. I repaid their hospitality with some lager as promised and off i went.
To compare the gear shifts before and after the new clutch and fly is very easy. Asside from the loss of the judder the actual shifts between gear are now absolutely flawless. No jerking, clunking, clicking or any feeling of mechanical engagment. The 30 mile drive home was very pleasant and i made full use of every setting to compare the old and new. In a nutshell its a job well done and i'm happy!
I did have a chat with the tech before i left about other owners and the similar issues they were having. His response was, 'not a problem, we like having the work, and at the end of the day BMW are paying for it'! So take it from that comment that they will be working in your faviur rather than just ticking the boxes. He acknowledged that this was now an issue they will recognise in the future and said that if more similar cases appear then they will press BMWUK for a resolution / recall. Result all round there i think.
So, all in i think we got a very good result there. Not just for me, but for anyone else who reads this and has the judder issue. Obviously Scotthall BMW will not just process all these cases as 'warranty jobs' as there are some cars our there that are simply worn out and at the end of the day they have to be honest about their work, but as ive said already they
will look for a warranty / goodwill solution before pressing the customer for payment from their own pocket. In my opinion thats a massive weight off any M5/M6 owners shoulders.
On that happy note im off. Thanks for your time and your support
Eddie
To compare the gear shifts before and after the new clutch and fly is very easy. Asside from the loss of the judder the actual shifts between gear are now absolutely flawless. No jerking, clunking, clicking or any feeling of mechanical engagment. The 30 mile drive home was very pleasant and i made full use of every setting to compare the old and new. In a nutshell its a job well done and i'm happy!
I did have a chat with the tech before i left about other owners and the similar issues they were having. His response was, 'not a problem, we like having the work, and at the end of the day BMW are paying for it'! So take it from that comment that they will be working in your faviur rather than just ticking the boxes. He acknowledged that this was now an issue they will recognise in the future and said that if more similar cases appear then they will press BMWUK for a resolution / recall. Result all round there i think.
So, all in i think we got a very good result there. Not just for me, but for anyone else who reads this and has the judder issue. Obviously Scotthall BMW will not just process all these cases as 'warranty jobs' as there are some cars our there that are simply worn out and at the end of the day they have to be honest about their work, but as ive said already they
will look for a warranty / goodwill solution before pressing the customer for payment from their own pocket. In my opinion thats a massive weight off any M5/M6 owners shoulders.
On that happy note im off. Thanks for your time and your support
Eddie
Interesting to see what you think in 3k miles, Ill put money on it you will find more clunky! The reset of clutch adaptations hides the true flaw in these cars!
Eddie,
Congrats on getting this finally sorted out, I agreed with your theory all along as mine had exactly the same fault. I am having difficulty getting any response from warranty direct as they just refuse to cover clutch components (even though the flywheel is not listed as not covered by the warranty or the guide bush etc etc) but I think I will write to them again with your story. I think anyone buying one of these cars needs to allow 2.5k off the price for clutch re-fit as eventually it will need to be replaced. Great news that you got it covered by the warranty from BMW too.
Congrats on getting this finally sorted out, I agreed with your theory all along as mine had exactly the same fault. I am having difficulty getting any response from warranty direct as they just refuse to cover clutch components (even though the flywheel is not listed as not covered by the warranty or the guide bush etc etc) but I think I will write to them again with your story. I think anyone buying one of these cars needs to allow 2.5k off the price for clutch re-fit as eventually it will need to be replaced. Great news that you got it covered by the warranty from BMW too.
Just an update for those interested.. Finally got my car booked in for the clutch judder. Spoke to the master tech who knew exactly what I was on about. Just got the call to say that it was as I had suspected, and described thoroughly in this thread thanks to Eddie, and all work is being done on the warranty, with the clutch & flywheel replaced due to consequential damage. I hope that this would have been the case even if I had not prepped them with the diagnosis, but who knows... Thanks for all the info sharing!
Advice needed!
I have come to this thread and its predecessor a little late I fear...as I have a very similar issue.
Car is a 5yr old M6, 36k miles, always serviced by official BMW and under warranty.
Car seemed to be juddering a lot at very low speed (only really sub 10mph) and then stalling (regardless of in SMG or fully automatic mode), which basically made it undirvable, especially as reverse parallel parking was impossible. Booked it in for BMW the enxt day and the day after ot in it to drive it to them, at which point the problem was still there but seemed much more managebale and didnt really impact driving, but i took it in anyway.
BMW (Battersea) then rang to say they suspected it was the clutch and that they wanted me to authorise gearbox removal, which I did (mistakenly it seems) and now have come back to say the clutch is worn out and needs replacing, with total cost including the fly wheel at £3.3k, with nothing covered by the warranty.
The problem is of course that as I have already authorised the gearbox removal, I am in for at least £1k they argue, even if i walk away now (and get the car towed, as it is still dissasembled, awaiting parts).
I am not car savvy like others on this thread (especially ecain63 and well done for being so vigorous in your pursuit of this!), but did seem surprised by it wearing out at such a early stage and also was suspicious in general, as they claimed I needed four new tires, with the thread "worn out completely" on some and others with punctures. This concerned me, as the car had only just been MOT'd 2 DAYS BEFORE I dropped it off for this issue, AT THE VERY SAME GARAGE! Being NEw to BMW, I was somewhat concerned that this was very trying to rack up extra peripheral expenditure...I guess I am a cynic! That sais, I havnt seent he tires yet and of course the puntures could be there (but they seemed to have missed the fact they did the MOT when I flagged this to them) and the car is driven mostly in central London, so the start/stop cycle clearly isnt good for the clutch's life expectancy.
I have authorised the repairs unfortunately, but now I want to see if i have any right to redress this, claiming the above issue, even if it just gets some of the cost down as a goodwill gesture..my fear being I have authorised things too far and am at least £1k in for what I authorised as part of the diagnosis (but this itself seems a large amount of money just in an "attempt" to locate the problem by an official service agent)...
Any tips or thoughts on my next steps would be much appreciated!
My question is what would be your advice on how best to pursue any retrospective warranty claim now...
Lesson learnt has been to do your research on PH first it would seem! Especially for those such as myself which are not so savvy!
I have come to this thread and its predecessor a little late I fear...as I have a very similar issue.
Car is a 5yr old M6, 36k miles, always serviced by official BMW and under warranty.
Car seemed to be juddering a lot at very low speed (only really sub 10mph) and then stalling (regardless of in SMG or fully automatic mode), which basically made it undirvable, especially as reverse parallel parking was impossible. Booked it in for BMW the enxt day and the day after ot in it to drive it to them, at which point the problem was still there but seemed much more managebale and didnt really impact driving, but i took it in anyway.
BMW (Battersea) then rang to say they suspected it was the clutch and that they wanted me to authorise gearbox removal, which I did (mistakenly it seems) and now have come back to say the clutch is worn out and needs replacing, with total cost including the fly wheel at £3.3k, with nothing covered by the warranty.
The problem is of course that as I have already authorised the gearbox removal, I am in for at least £1k they argue, even if i walk away now (and get the car towed, as it is still dissasembled, awaiting parts).
I am not car savvy like others on this thread (especially ecain63 and well done for being so vigorous in your pursuit of this!), but did seem surprised by it wearing out at such a early stage and also was suspicious in general, as they claimed I needed four new tires, with the thread "worn out completely" on some and others with punctures. This concerned me, as the car had only just been MOT'd 2 DAYS BEFORE I dropped it off for this issue, AT THE VERY SAME GARAGE! Being NEw to BMW, I was somewhat concerned that this was very trying to rack up extra peripheral expenditure...I guess I am a cynic! That sais, I havnt seent he tires yet and of course the puntures could be there (but they seemed to have missed the fact they did the MOT when I flagged this to them) and the car is driven mostly in central London, so the start/stop cycle clearly isnt good for the clutch's life expectancy.
I have authorised the repairs unfortunately, but now I want to see if i have any right to redress this, claiming the above issue, even if it just gets some of the cost down as a goodwill gesture..my fear being I have authorised things too far and am at least £1k in for what I authorised as part of the diagnosis (but this itself seems a large amount of money just in an "attempt" to locate the problem by an official service agent)...
Any tips or thoughts on my next steps would be much appreciated!
My question is what would be your advice on how best to pursue any retrospective warranty claim now...
Lesson learnt has been to do your research on PH first it would seem! Especially for those such as myself which are not so savvy!
ecain63 said:
just remember never to use Auto mode ever again and always pull away in 1st (S3 or higher).
EddieI've followed this thread with interest as I have a 55 plate with 47,000 miles on with some occasional judder round town.
As I don't like doing massive revs or speeds in town when pulling away, I've adopted a pull away in 2nd in S5 mode. I thought this might be OK as the automode does do 2nd gear starts. Do you think my driving mode might be causing damage?
I'd appreciate your thought please.
Andrew
Air Support said:
Eddie
I've followed this thread with interest as I have a 55 plate with 47,000 miles on with some occasional judder round town.
As I don't like doing massive revs or speeds in town when pulling away, I've adopted a pull away in 2nd in S5 mode. I thought this might be OK as the automode does do 2nd gear starts. Do you think my driving mode might be causing damage?
I'd appreciate your thought please.
Andrew
Hi mate.I've followed this thread with interest as I have a 55 plate with 47,000 miles on with some occasional judder round town.
As I don't like doing massive revs or speeds in town when pulling away, I've adopted a pull away in 2nd in S5 mode. I thought this might be OK as the automode does do 2nd gear starts. Do you think my driving mode might be causing damage?
I'd appreciate your thought please.
Andrew
Is this the cars original clutch? If so that's bloody low mileage for the age.
On topic, yes I'd say your driving methods won't be helping your clutch economy. Pulling away in 2nd is probably the worst thing you can do in these beasts. In 2nd you have to rev higher, the clutch will take longer to engage fully and in turn wear will be accelerated. Although its jerky, the best method of pulling away in the V10 SMG is in S5/6, 1st gear and not too soft on the throttle. It will feel harsh but this is in fact the way they are meant to be driven. With this method the clutch is forced to engage very quickly thus reducing any slippage or riding and much reducing wear on the friction surfaces.
Eddie
ecain63 said:
....useful advice....
EddieThanks - I'll give it a try but not sure I can live with that around town - perhaps a low relatively low set of revs in 1st and then a quick change to second might work... but likely to be slower away overall I guess.
Problem is around town I just want to have a nice comfortable Exec type cruiser drive -not realy what these cars were designed for.
As to mileage then yes - original clutch AFAIK. Picked it up from an independent dealer last Auguast with about 37000 miles on the clock (E60 M5 BTW). Thankfully I put the full Mondial cover in place (rather than 3rd party) following advice on here.
No probs mate. Either way, I think getting out of auto mode and into paddle mode is gonna help you big time. It might be odd for a few weeks but your clutch and wallet will thank you for it in the long run.
With regards to the judder, could you describe exactly what you are experiencing and under what conditions? The component failure vs actual wear argument needs a few more details before we can start choosing sides.
Eddie
With regards to the judder, could you describe exactly what you are experiencing and under what conditions? The component failure vs actual wear argument needs a few more details before we can start choosing sides.
Eddie
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