Toyo Proxes T1R - always this bad?
Discussion
Had those tyres on my first Mk1 MX-5 during our first PH run to the coast.I doubt there is a better test for a tyre than that route, at that time of the morning, in amongst that company! I would have to say they were fantastic; seeing as a couple of people in much higher powered and far more expensive machines posted here to comment on how the litte MX was flying and was hard to catch and shake off.
We rung that cars neck for over an hour without a single lockup and the only time the back stepped out was due to some high speed lift-off oversteer (my fault).
I think I have had 3 more sets since then and not once had a problem.Mine have all been 195 15's if it matters and all have been on MX-5's.They certainly offer up decent bang for the buck once some heat gets into them imho.I have 16" 205 Yoko ADO8's on the FWD Volvo, so it would be interesting to try some Toyo's on that in the future.
We rung that cars neck for over an hour without a single lockup and the only time the back stepped out was due to some high speed lift-off oversteer (my fault).
I think I have had 3 more sets since then and not once had a problem.Mine have all been 195 15's if it matters and all have been on MX-5's.They certainly offer up decent bang for the buck once some heat gets into them imho.I have 16" 205 Yoko ADO8's on the FWD Volvo, so it would be interesting to try some Toyo's on that in the future.
Oldandslow said:
Can you post a photo? I have no idea how that could happen. I drive like my arse is on fire around twisty country roads and nothing even remotely like that ever happens?
How are you measuring the pressure? Have you tried a different gauge?
I am guessing that is what happen based on a few other accounts of similar that I found after some searching around. I was taking a roundabout and as the rear left loaded up there was suddenly a huge jolt and the rear left of the car felt like it had dropped onto the road, and the entire car then sort of bounced sideways. I know the roundabout well and have driven this car and my old 1.6 that way lots of times, and there are no drains or dips etc, so something physically happened to the tyre to drop the car down enough that I could feel it from the drivers seat. My immediate thought was that the tyre had either come off the rim or deflated very fast, but as I exited the roundabout it all seemed normal again.How are you measuring the pressure? Have you tried a different gauge?
I checked the tyre pressures with a garage pressure machine and then back at home with the footpump that I normally use, and both gave the same values to within 1 PSI.
I didn't notice any visible damage to the tyre but I will check it again.
My main concern is that whatever happened to that tyre happened very suddenly and not under extreme cornering load, and if the sidewall did fold (and I can't come up with any other explanation for such an odd event) then if I was going faster it could have resulted in the rim edge hitting the ground, and the results of that could be very serious.
It could well be that at 30psi they would be fine, but they are on the front of the car at the moment and they seem to have no ability to stop the car quickly, so I have lost all faith in them and will be swapping them.
You didn't answer my previous question. When was your alignment last done?
Honestly,I have T1R on my car, admittedly in 205/40/17 so with smaller sidewalls but have had them on 15s before, and they work very well. With the pressure at 30psi (dropped to 28 in winter for extra grip) and alignment set up properly for my car (240bhp and used regularly on track) I can't fault them. I know there are better tyres but they cost at least double and are only a few degrees better.
P.S. if you had rolled a tyre it would be buckled and pretty much destroyed.
Honestly,I have T1R on my car, admittedly in 205/40/17 so with smaller sidewalls but have had them on 15s before, and they work very well. With the pressure at 30psi (dropped to 28 in winter for extra grip) and alignment set up properly for my car (240bhp and used regularly on track) I can't fault them. I know there are better tyres but they cost at least double and are only a few degrees better.
P.S. if you had rolled a tyre it would be buckled and pretty much destroyed.
i had one set of T1R's - i didn't think they were great (v-grooved tyres always feel a little vague to me) but not a disaster either. lets be honest the main reason they are so popular is that you can get them for £30 a corner. Obviously there are better tyres out there, but for the money, they're ok. They just need some pressure in them.
Its all very odd.
I've had a few sets, and yes, that is mainly because they were £30~35 a corner.
They are not the best tyres. I've had plenty of better tyres. However they are far from terrible, and what they also are is incredibly popular. The 'folding over' sounds a bit far fetched to me, I've worked on tyre failures of a very different type (commercial vehicles) but I'm positive a failure of that type would be permanent.
Regardless, I think theres some important questions to be answered - number 1 is Lazzas - do you KNOW your alignment is correct?
And then, do this :
I've had a few sets, and yes, that is mainly because they were £30~35 a corner.
They are not the best tyres. I've had plenty of better tyres. However they are far from terrible, and what they also are is incredibly popular. The 'folding over' sounds a bit far fetched to me, I've worked on tyre failures of a very different type (commercial vehicles) but I'm positive a failure of that type would be permanent.
Regardless, I think theres some important questions to be answered - number 1 is Lazzas - do you KNOW your alignment is correct?
And then, do this :
Richyvrlimited said:
a) they're all a matching set of tyres and
b) they're the correct size.
I will run different tyres F to R on other cars, and do, but from experience I now always run 4 matched tyres. It helps that with a bit of rotation, they do tend to wear pretty evenly too with the drive wear being matched by braking wear. b) they're the correct size.
te.Yes clearly having 5% less sidewall or whatever it works out as is highly likely give it way more grip and make it razor sharp...
Your definition of s***e is apparently a tyre that grips better, turns instantly with no vagueness, and stops quicker in the rain than the better tyre can manage in the dry. OK, but I'll take the s***e one then.
Your definition of s***e is apparently a tyre that grips better, turns instantly with no vagueness, and stops quicker in the rain than the better tyre can manage in the dry. OK, but I'll take the s***e one then.
JimSuperSix said:
Yes clearly having 5% less sidewall or whatever it works out as is highly likely give it way more grip and make it razor sharp...
Your definition of s***e is apparently a tyre that grips better, turns instantly with no vagueness, and stops quicker in the rain than the better tyre can manage in the dry. OK, but I'll take the s***e one then.
Indeed yes having the correct sized tyres without an overly baggy profile makes a huge difference as does the correct pressure for the size of tyres and the car. This is why you are having issues with yours where most people are not.Your definition of s***e is apparently a tyre that grips better, turns instantly with no vagueness, and stops quicker in the rain than the better tyre can manage in the dry. OK, but I'll take the s***e one then.
And perhaps in your head the champiro grips better and is better in the rain but in reality they are a worse tyre, they may feel better currently to you for the following reason.
The toyo T1R is tyre with a very soft sidewall so if you are running the wrong, higher profile it will have more drastically poor effects on your car than a tyre with a stiffer sidewall. The low pressure is exacerbating this.
Pump them up for starters and next time whatever tyre you buy get them in the correct size for the car.
JimSuperSix said:
They are at the correct pressures, and they still feel terrible and lack stopping ability.
Regardless of whether the standard tyre size is 50 or 55, it doesn't change the fact that the tyre has no grip.
They are not the correct pressures. They may be the correct pressures for a 195/50/15 but that is not the tyre you are running.Regardless of whether the standard tyre size is 50 or 55, it doesn't change the fact that the tyre has no grip.
And yes that will change the fact the tyres have no grip as they are under inflated.
JimSuperSix said:
Checked at a garage and found the usual 25 to 26 PSI in all 4 tyres.
If you have upped it to 30psi and it is not much better then I am very surprised. Try adding another 2psi and see how that feels, perhaps even go as high as 33 or 34 psi if 32 psi does not make it better.I`m not here to argue with you which is what you seem to want to do now, I`m just trying to answer your original question and point out why they might not feel right and perhaps help you out.
Toyo Proxes T1R - always this bad? - NO.
Will leave it at that.
Running 55 profile won't be the problem. As you say, the difference in tyre wall in small. I used to run my Focus which should have had 195/55/15 on 195/50/15 to make use of cheaper tyres and it made no difference to how it felt. Also, tyre size makes no difference to pressure, that is decided more by car weight.
The T1R are v-groove directional tyres so will highlight the alignment being out. The Champiros would have hidden the problem. You might think this is a good thing but they would also have been hiding the great handling that is hidden away in your car. Get the alignment sorted out, leave the Toyos on and your car will be transformed.
The T1R are v-groove directional tyres so will highlight the alignment being out. The Champiros would have hidden the problem. You might think this is a good thing but they would also have been hiding the great handling that is hidden away in your car. Get the alignment sorted out, leave the Toyos on and your car will be transformed.
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