Toyo Proxes T1R - always this bad?
Discussion
Maybe a link to the original post I made makes more sense too.
http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/forum/yaf_postst82863_A-tyr...
http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/forum/yaf_postst82863_A-tyr...
Nickjd said:
I thought about if to reply or not. I didn't post and I didn't make the video to convince people to buy Kumho, I made it to make the point the Toyo T1R are not the great tyre that the internet tells you it is.
I don't expect to convert people people who think the Toyo is great, I thought Nokia was great until I got an Android phone. If you are happy with what you have that is not for me to tell you otherwise and what makes a great tyre is down to what you want from it. I made it to give a counter point for the people who are continually told that the T1R is great. I read it all the time, "I am told I should fit T1R," this thread is almost a text book example of how it goes.
Again, it is not about which is easier to get the back out with, Marangoni and Parada are hardly shining examples of competent tyres either, but about not getting the back end out. For the average driver, their first experience of a skid or slide is about 2 seconds before they hit something hard. For most, if the rear lets go like in the video then they will spin and the consequences of that will depend on what is around them. Of course you can spin a car on any tyre in any conditions if you try hard enough, the point is, you really don't have to try with the T1R.
By the way, ask Rodders what he thinks of them.
I'm not sure if my ramblings came across that well, I certainly wasn't stating that the Toyos were a great tyre, merely my personal reasons for buying them, (the same reason I also ended up with Marangoni and Yoko).I don't expect to convert people people who think the Toyo is great, I thought Nokia was great until I got an Android phone. If you are happy with what you have that is not for me to tell you otherwise and what makes a great tyre is down to what you want from it. I made it to give a counter point for the people who are continually told that the T1R is great. I read it all the time, "I am told I should fit T1R," this thread is almost a text book example of how it goes.
Again, it is not about which is easier to get the back out with, Marangoni and Parada are hardly shining examples of competent tyres either, but about not getting the back end out. For the average driver, their first experience of a skid or slide is about 2 seconds before they hit something hard. For most, if the rear lets go like in the video then they will spin and the consequences of that will depend on what is around them. Of course you can spin a car on any tyre in any conditions if you try hard enough, the point is, you really don't have to try with the T1R.
By the way, ask Rodders what he thinks of them.
I only ever recommended them when they were cheap, they're not anymore, much better tyres are available for less money than they cost.
The comment about the Toyos looking more entertaining was me being a bit facetious.
MX-5 Lazza said:
With regards to the OP... He did come on saying that the tyres must be rubbish but wouldn't accept that there might be another issue at work such as poor alignment.
Sorry this is not right, what I said before was that the car handled perfectly well before it had the toyos on it and that the problem moved around dep upon which end the toyos were on, and that I did not believe the behavior differences were down to there being an alignment issue.I also said that if the new tyres did not solve the issue then I would look into an alignment check.
As it turns out the new tyres seem to have solved the problem, so it appears that it was indeed not an alignment issue.
Its obvious some people like them and some do not.
Everyone that has had them will have also had several other sets of tyres of which to base their experiences so its nothing like Apple fanboi-ism.
They are good or they are bad, it seems opinions differ as with opinions on most brands and products so thats pretty much all there is to say.
Love them or hate them they have been a great seller for years and are far from being the only tyre suggested on forums.
Everyone that has had them will have also had several other sets of tyres of which to base their experiences so its nothing like Apple fanboi-ism.
They are good or they are bad, it seems opinions differ as with opinions on most brands and products so thats pretty much all there is to say.
Love them or hate them they have been a great seller for years and are far from being the only tyre suggested on forums.
Nickjd said:
Maybe a link to the original post I made makes more sense too.
http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/forum/yaf_postst82863_A-tyr...
Hi Nick,http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/forum/yaf_postst82863_A-tyr...
Can you tell me what tyre pressures you were running during the test and what the max load and max pressure figures from the side wall of each make of tyre was? I have no experience or opinion of either tyre, but I test software for a living and get a bit ocd about having all the facts when I read/watch tests.
Thanks.
p.s. I really must get my mk1 on track with you guys at some point.
From memory it would have been 1.8bar so 27psi.
I think your calculation is out though. What you have is a calculation giving a percentage of the maximum load and pressure, so for an 82 load rated tyre at max load 1045lb (475kg) and max 51psi then if you have 50% of the max load on the tyre you are giving 50% of the maximum air pressure.
To achieve the 26psi recommended my Mazda across all the NA and NB cars from 14" to 16" you would have to use the curb weight of around 1,000kg to get 26psi not the maximum gross axle weight or max gross weight, which by the way is not on the chassis plates.
Also you have significant variables. A 82 rated 15" tyre has a max pressure of 51psi as does a 14" 86 rated tyre however there is 121lb maximum load rating difference in those tyres which would result in, using curb weight, a 4psi variance for using those tyre on the same car. Since load rating is a measure, ultimately, of the internal pressure the tyre can withstand to support the load being applied by the vehicle, not a measure of stiffness of the tyre, you would not expect to drop 4psi just because the load rating of the tyre has gone from 82 to 86.
Finally, in addition, while your calculation seeks to know the axle load, it is rare for cars to give this, rather than just a gross vehicle load. This you would also get significant differenced between a front heavy Audi where up to 70 of weight can be on the front and an equivalent weight BMW.
I think your calculation is out though. What you have is a calculation giving a percentage of the maximum load and pressure, so for an 82 load rated tyre at max load 1045lb (475kg) and max 51psi then if you have 50% of the max load on the tyre you are giving 50% of the maximum air pressure.
To achieve the 26psi recommended my Mazda across all the NA and NB cars from 14" to 16" you would have to use the curb weight of around 1,000kg to get 26psi not the maximum gross axle weight or max gross weight, which by the way is not on the chassis plates.
Also you have significant variables. A 82 rated 15" tyre has a max pressure of 51psi as does a 14" 86 rated tyre however there is 121lb maximum load rating difference in those tyres which would result in, using curb weight, a 4psi variance for using those tyre on the same car. Since load rating is a measure, ultimately, of the internal pressure the tyre can withstand to support the load being applied by the vehicle, not a measure of stiffness of the tyre, you would not expect to drop 4psi just because the load rating of the tyre has gone from 82 to 86.
Finally, in addition, while your calculation seeks to know the axle load, it is rare for cars to give this, rather than just a gross vehicle load. This you would also get significant differenced between a front heavy Audi where up to 70 of weight can be on the front and an equivalent weight BMW.
Nickjd said:
From memory it would have been 1.8bar so 27psi.
I think your calculation is out though. What you have is a calculation giving a percentage of the maximum load and pressure, so for an 82 load rated tyre at max load 1045lb (475kg) and max 51psi then if you have 50% of the max load on the tyre you are giving 50% of the maximum air pressure.
To achieve the 26psi recommended my Mazda across all the NA and NB cars from 14" to 16" you would have to use the curb weight of around 1,000kg to get 26psi not the maximum gross axle weight or max gross weight, which by the way is not on the chassis plates.
Also you have significant variables. A 82 rated 15" tyre has a max pressure of 51psi as does a 14" 86 rated tyre however there is 121lb maximum load rating difference in those tyres which would result in, using curb weight, a 4psi variance for using those tyre on the same car. Since load rating is a measure, ultimately, of the internal pressure the tyre can withstand to support the load being applied by the vehicle, not a measure of stiffness of the tyre, you would not expect to drop 4psi just because the load rating of the tyre has gone from 82 to 86.
Finally, in addition, while your calculation seeks to know the axle load, it is rare for cars to give this, rather than just a gross vehicle load. This you would also get significant differenced between a front heavy Audi where up to 70 of weight can be on the front and an equivalent weight BMW.
Thanks for that Nick. I think you're right in that the formula should be using actual axle weight rather than max gross weight. I found the formula last year when I was trying to work out what tyre pressure to put into my winter tyres, when the rear tyres were not the recommended size for the car. I'll do some more research.I think your calculation is out though. What you have is a calculation giving a percentage of the maximum load and pressure, so for an 82 load rated tyre at max load 1045lb (475kg) and max 51psi then if you have 50% of the max load on the tyre you are giving 50% of the maximum air pressure.
To achieve the 26psi recommended my Mazda across all the NA and NB cars from 14" to 16" you would have to use the curb weight of around 1,000kg to get 26psi not the maximum gross axle weight or max gross weight, which by the way is not on the chassis plates.
Also you have significant variables. A 82 rated 15" tyre has a max pressure of 51psi as does a 14" 86 rated tyre however there is 121lb maximum load rating difference in those tyres which would result in, using curb weight, a 4psi variance for using those tyre on the same car. Since load rating is a measure, ultimately, of the internal pressure the tyre can withstand to support the load being applied by the vehicle, not a measure of stiffness of the tyre, you would not expect to drop 4psi just because the load rating of the tyre has gone from 82 to 86.
Finally, in addition, while your calculation seeks to know the axle load, it is rare for cars to give this, rather than just a gross vehicle load. This you would also get significant differenced between a front heavy Audi where up to 70 of weight can be on the front and an equivalent weight BMW.
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