Does the MX-5 feel underpowered?

[TheJimi]

MX-5 Lazza said:

I've been on a few PH Hoons with a variety of other cars. As mine is supercharged with 245bhp it keeps up with everything easily enough. On one join however I was half way through changing the ECU so was running without the sc. I still found that a lot of bigger "faster" cars were holding me up and I had to overtake a DB9 and an M3. While they were obviously quicker on straight roads they couldn't get near me on the bends.

I don't believe that is a reflection of the cars per-se, and more a reflection of the drivers.

A good driver in an M3 or DB9 shouldn't be holding up a MX5.

[MX-5 Lazza]

TheJimi said:

MX-5 Lazza said:

I've been on a few PH Hoons with a variety of other cars. As mine is supercharged with 245bhp it keeps up with everything easily enough. On one join however I was half way through changing the ECU so was running without the sc. I still found that a lot of bigger "faster" cars were holding me up and I had to overtake a DB9 and an M3. While they were obviously quicker on straight roads they couldn't get near me on the bends.

I don't believe that is a reflection of the cars per-se, and more a reflection of the drivers.

A good driver in an M3 or DB9 shouldn't be holding up a MX5.

Thanks for the compliment but I'm nowhere near being that great a driver. An MX5 is easy to keep on the go, pushing the limits all the time. Try that on a DB9/M3 and you'll soon find yourself in the bushes. If there were any straight roads/open bends they obviously pulled away easy enough but not for long as there is only so fast you can go on the road and if there are more bends than straights they find themselves backing off a lot more than in an MX5. That's why Scoobies are so good on hoons, they can be pushed a lot harder than most cars with less risk of the car meeting the foliage.

[dragonheart]

IIRC Whatcar achieved a 0-60 time of 7.1 seconds in the NC 2.0ltr which is not exactly slow and with a top speed approaching 140mph I would have thought that was enough performance for anyone. But as others have said combine the performance with the cars other capabilities and you have something that puts a smile on your face every time you drive it.

If this performance should still prove to be inadequate for your needs you could always sc or turbo charge it.

BBR do the GT270 package, this offers a 0-60 time of 5.1s and a top speed of 150mph. They also offer slightly tamer packages and they are or maybe already have developed a 300+ bhp package. All the BBR packages should offer all the performance you would ever need from an MX5.

[sandys]

Just picked up a 2.0 NC recently, I’ve been surprised by its pace as have others who have come out in it, you have to work for it though and use all the revs, none of this lazy turbo torque to rely on.

It feels a lot quicker than a 7.9 0-60 would suggest and seems quite enjoyable at low speeds (<70), I only find its lack of torque an issue on hills but then my other car has double the torque and I don’t have to stir the box so much.

Consequence of all this revving is pants fuel economy, its doing sub 30, my heavier more powerful hatchback is almost 50% better in this regard.

I haven't regretted it lack of power, in fact I am enjoying it more than I thought I would for something that is supposed to be slow.

Its suspension is fairly compliant so offers decent comfort on that side of things, the seats are a bit flat but I have had no problem on my 100 mile commute, wind noise at legal speeds is fine.

Edited by sandys on Friday 13th February 16:10

[TheJimi]

MX-5 Lazza said:

TheJimi said:

MX-5 Lazza said:

I've been on a few PH Hoons with a variety of other cars. As mine is supercharged with 245bhp it keeps up with everything easily enough. On one join however I was half way through changing the ECU so was running without the sc. I still found that a lot of bigger "faster" cars were holding me up and I had to overtake a DB9 and an M3. While they were obviously quicker on straight roads they couldn't get near me on the bends.

I don't believe that is a reflection of the cars per-se, and more a reflection of the drivers.

A good driver in an M3 or DB9 shouldn't be holding up a MX5.

Thanks for the compliment but I'm nowhere near being that great a driver. An MX5 is easy to keep on the go, pushing the limits all the time. Try that on a DB9/M3 and you'll soon find yourself in the bushes. If there were any straight roads/open bends they obviously pulled away easy enough but not for long as there is only so fast you can go on the road and if there are more bends than straights they find themselves backing off a lot more than in an MX5. That's why Scoobies are so good on hoons, they can be pushed a lot harder than most cars with less risk of the car meeting the foliage.

I hear you, but again, it's down to the driver. Stick an equally capable, competant and committed driver in DB9 or an M3 and there shouldn't be any issues.

I do know where you're coming from though, having owned a 1.8 Mk2 for 6 years (incidentally, the longest I've kept any car!)

[Flip Martian]

Do you want handling fun, or power based fun? To truly answer that you might need to blag a ride in both types. I had, until recently, a 5.7 litre V8 Camaro. Sub 6 secs 0-60, up to 150mph, absolutely mental acceleration for overtaking - lots of fun to be had.

After 7 years I replaced it with a 2.0 MX5 NC recently. Whole different type of fun and I enjoy it hugely! In a different way. I suppose I've done the big power thing, although I wouldn't say no to a V8 in the future. To be honest my Mazda 3 (2.2 diesel turbo) is more powerful than than the MX5 - but obviously not as much fun to drive. I do love it.

[Rogue86]

I think people often (unfairly) brand the MX5 as slow because they're not happy dropping into third at motorway speeds. It's such an engaging and rewarding car to drive quickly that it's never bothered me and it's much less 'work' to drive than my FD.

[otolith]

I liked the wife's MK2 1.8. I preferred driving it to the Civic Type-R I had at the time, despite the Civic having a much nicer engine, marginally the better gearbox, much more go and much more grip. Was just a fun car to drive. Thought it could have done with a nicer engine, not so much from a more power point of view but from it needing to be revved (which is fine) but not sounding or feeling as if it was enjoying the experience.

[Flip Martian]

otolith said:

I liked the wife's MK2 1.8. I preferred driving it to the Civic Type-R I had at the time, despite the Civic having a much nicer engine, marginally the better gearbox, much more go and much more grip. Was just a fun car to drive. Thought it could have done with a nicer engine, not so much from a more power point of view but from it needing to be revved (which is fine) but not sounding or feeling as if it was enjoying the experience.

Pretty accurate, to be fair.

[GibsonSG]

I've got a Mk1 Eunos import and even with its piddly 116bhp 1.6 I had a epiphany when I eventually realised that it was more fun than my WRX or my turgid workday Golf GTD. I've generally gone for turbocharged cars for the mid-range grunt but the tiddler is just so much fun to row along. Had to go to Manchester (from Malvern) the other day and took the Eunos, roof down all the way and back. It was bloody ace.

[Flip Martian]

GibsonSG said:

I've got a Mk1 Eunos import and even with its piddly 116bhp 1.6 I had a epiphany when I eventually realised that it was more fun than my WRX or my turgid workday Golf GTD. I've generally gone for turbocharged cars for the mid-range grunt but the tiddler is just so much fun to row along. Had to go to Manchester (from Malvern) the other day and took the Eunos, roof down all the way and back. It was bloody ace.

I get this. I go everywhere with the roof down now, even in the middle of winter (much to my wife's frustration sometimes - but she ends up enjoying it too).

[GibsonSG]

Flip, as well as "normal" clothing I ended up wearing a jacket with a greatcoat over it, thermal socks, one of these snood things with a hood, plus a hat over that, and a pair of gloves. I don't tend to spare the horses, so it does get a bit cold on long distances. I looked like a right tt, especially when I had to remove various articles at a stop at the services on the M6, but it was such a great experience. The only time the roof is up is when it's parked.

[T0MMY]

otolith said:

I liked the wife's MK2 1.8. I preferred driving it to the Civic Type-R I had at the time, despite the Civic having a much nicer engine, marginally the better gearbox, much more go and much more grip. Was just a fun car to drive. Thought it could have done with a nicer engine, not so much from a more power point of view but from it needing to be revved (which is fine) but not sounding or feeling as if it was enjoying the experience.

That's a good point...the power of the old MX5 1.8 engine bothered me a lot less than the not-especially-sporty character of it. You need to rev it but it doesn't feel or sound very happy about it. Would have benefited from something more like the old free-revving Honda 1.6 VTi engines. The 1.6 MX5s are meant to be a bit more zingy though.

[Flip Martian]

GibsonSG said:

Flip, as well as "normal" clothing I ended up wearing a jacket with a greatcoat over it, thermal socks, one of these snood things with a hood, plus a hat over that, and a pair of gloves. I don't tend to spare the horses, so it does get a bit cold on long distances. I looked like a right tt, especially when I had to remove various articles at a stop at the services on the M6, but it was such a great experience. The only time the roof is up is when it's parked.

Yep, I went to see friends after xmas on a freezing day. Boots, thermal socks, thermal top (plus a shirt and jumper), thick warm jacket, trapper hat, gloves...and a bloody big grin the whole way. Drove back in the dark on a clear night and seeing the stars above my head while driving along was just a great experience. First convertible I've ever had - total convert now.

[The Turbonator]

Thanks for all the replies everyone, I think you've pretty much convinced me to give it a go.

[GibsonSG]

Let us know how you get on if you do take the plunge. I re-read your original post and while an MX probably won't scratch the itch of the 200+ BHP type of cars that you mention, I've found mine more fun, more of the time than my previous quick-ish cars

[snotrag]

Rogue86 said:

I think people often (unfairly) brand the MX5 as slow because they're not happy dropping into third at motorway speeds. It's such an engaging and rewarding car to drive quickly that it's never bothered me and it's much less 'work' to drive than my FD.

This, all over. I've been out in my MX-5 with a mate, who is used to driving diesel hatchbacks.

He came out of a 50mph zone, commenting "its a bit flat isnt it".

Yes, thats because your 3 gears too high.

This took a bit of getting used to, that a downshift to 2nd was acceptable sub 50mph, but once grasped, then you realise that actually there not THAT slow.

The vast majority of comments about how slow they are come from people used to driving diesels which will pull from 30mph in top. If you dont want to work for it, then an MX-5 is not for you.

[Flip Martian]

snotrag said:

This, all over. I've been out in my MX-5 with a mate, who is used to driving diesel hatchbacks.

He came out of a 50mph zone, commenting "its a bit flat isnt it".

Yes, thats because your 3 gears too high.

This took a bit of getting used to, that a downshift to 2nd was acceptable sub 50mph, but once grasped, then you realise that actually there not THAT slow.

The vast majority of comments about how slow they are come from people used to driving diesels which will pull from 30mph in top. If you dont want to work for it, then an MX-5 is not for you.

True - once I got used to revving the damn thing it makes far more sense. The test drive I had didn't do it any favours - I wasn't used to working the engine. Doesn't take long to get used to it though.

[M3 Convert]

I've got both a lightly modified E46 M3 and a MX-5 Mk 2.5 Sport with modified suspension and a (recently fitted) supercharger conversion. They make an interesting comparison.

The M3 makes a fast and comfy A road and motorway cruiser, however the MX-5 is little slower and vastly more agile. The reason is simple: the M3 may have lots more grunt, however this is lugging around c. 1650 kg of German lorry. The MX-5 is around 140 bhp less powerful, however this is propelling nearly 600 kg less mass. And this lowish mass also shows in how it handles.

Of course, an Elise, Exige, VX220 etc. would be even faster and agile than even a lightly tweaked MX-5. However, at 62, it's nice to have creature comforts like heated seats, electric windows, aircon etc. And not to have to enter the car via an opening the size of a large letterbox when the hood is up.

[Gandahar]

M3 Convert said:

Of course, an Elise, Exige, VX220 etc. would be even faster and agile than even a lightly tweaked MX-5. However, at 62, it's nice to have creature comforts like heated seats, electric windows, aircon etc. And not to have to enter the car via an opening the size of a large letterbox when the hood is up.

That's a very good point. You do have to contort yourself when getting into one of those as I do when I go with my friends one. Also it takes him an age to make it a convertible, not the 2 seconds in the MX5.

And the MX5 never has a flat battery after leaving it a week in winter

My mate from the USA came over last weekend. San Diego 70F, Kent 32F. He put all his jumpers on as I said we would be going topless along my favourite B road. He was warm and happy and we did one high speed "wriggle" and one low speed full stops oversteer with the car getting very sideways to show him how friendly the MX5 is even for duffers trying to impress.

I think the question is not whether the MX5 is underpowered but what road you want to drive it on?

The MX5 is a lovely B road car. It has a very small footprint on the road. Hopefully the new version will be even better with less weight, as long as the electronic steering does not rob the car of feedback. What makes a great drive? Neck snapping acceleration or 5 miles of winding B roads? Well both of course, but one lasts longer than the other.

Edited by Gandahar on Saturday 14th February 13:24