Discussion
Sorry, didn't ask about the springs, but there are bound to be some available after market.
I was looking at the brochure again last night, and it did strike me that all the photos show cars that are MUCH lower. So they seem to have accepted that to make the car more attractive, it needs to be lowered. Couldn't see any foot notes anywhere explaining why they might be different...
I was looking at the brochure again last night, and it did strike me that all the photos show cars that are MUCH lower. So they seem to have accepted that to make the car more attractive, it needs to be lowered. Couldn't see any foot notes anywhere explaining why they might be different...
Having spent 3.5 hours in a 1.5 SE-L yesterday and 20 mins in a 2.0 Sport Nav today, the 1.5 is now my clear favourite. The suspension in the 2.0 Sport is horrible and I don't like the engine - it's noticeably faster but seems to take much of the fun away from the drive somehow. I agree with the previous comment about the steering in the 1.5 seeming better than the 2.0 but have no idea why this would be.
I think a 1.5 Sport Nav will be the one I will go for if I can get hold of one without having to wait months for it.
I think a 1.5 Sport Nav will be the one I will go for if I can get hold of one without having to wait months for it.
SFO said:
steering on straight ahead is lifeless, with lock and at speed, you can feel the car lean, but the steering remains uncommunicative and almost silent. accurate, yes, but not pin sharp. for me, the biggest disappointment of the car. however, the steering is OK, just not good or very good like many other aspects of the car.
I second this excellent review. I was there with SFO, and what a great day it was - brilliantly organised, and while they are obviously trying to sell you a car, very generous.I loved the car (especially the 1.5 for the fact the power band was available higher up in the rev range), except for the steering. On centre there is a lot of play and a lack of feel compared to my old MK1.
Apart from the steering, for me this car completely captures the wonderful MK1 feeling. I wonder what the mid cycle update will be like? If they can add weight and feel to the steering this car would be undeniable.
lilwashu said:
I think a 1.5 Sport Nav will be the one I will go for if I can get hold of one without having to wait months for it.
Thanks for your report lilwashu.I notice that some demonstrators are starting to come onto the market now, and I'm sure many will follow in the next 2 months, so it's worth keeping an eye on Autotrader. (Provided that you'd be happy with an ex demo of course
)Cabsi said:
I was at the South Lodge Hotel event today. It was very well run and the lunch hamper was great. They certainly looked after us. Having tried a 2.0 Sport in the Cotswolds, and been disappointed with the suspension, I managed to nab a 2.0 SE-L this time.....
At last, a first hand report on driving a 2l SE-L - thanks Cabsi.
You've confirmed what I was hoping would be the case re. the suspension - it's just a shame about the cloth upholstery - but as you and SFO point out, that can be remedied. The audio doesn't really bother me.
Copying across from the MX5 OC Forum my experience from the weekend:
I too was out at the South Downs event this weekend, and managed to nab a 2.0 SE-L Nav, which the other half and I drove for just under 140 miles over the course of 4 hours. Really grateful that the team there managed to give me one of the two or three 2.0 SE-L Nav's that they had, out of approx. 60 NDs that were there - I have pre-ordered a car in this spec back in April, and was really hoping to try out the exact model I had ordered. Apart from the demonstrator being in Mica Grey instead of the Soul Red that I pre-ordered, I was assured this car was the exact production version that I will receive at the beginning of October.
Driving impressions:
Very willing 2.0 engine, with the red line coming quickly once you are pushing on past 4,000prm. The engine only had 235 miles on it when I picked up the car, but I felt it was very much alive.
Excellent gearbox and very precise-feeling gearchanges, although I did find that very fast down-changes from 3rd to 2nd required a bit of "faith" that you didn't end up in 4th... blame for that one likely to lie with driver skill..
Relatively short gearing means you can have a heap of fun at legal speeds - think we were seeing 2nd approach 6,000rpm around 50mph, with the engine at about 4,500 in 3rd at 60mph.. perfect for the 60mph roads through the South Downs!
We loved the sound of the exhaust with the top down, it had a great growl from about 3.500 rpm onwards.
I thought the suspension was spot-on - very compliant on all but the worst surfaces, while providing lots of feedback in terms of what is happening under the car. The only downside was that the rear-view mirror seemed to be in a constant violent shake whenever we drove on anything but the smoothest surfaces - didn't bother me too much though.
Even though I had read numerous comments/reviews about the "lean" under brisk cornering, it was still disconcerting the first time it happened - however, we found it very easy to be confident about the car's handling when you realise how composed the car is once it is "leaning".
Steering: the fact that I didn't really think about the steering at all for the first 30min or so, while we chatted about the engine/exhaust/suspension/interior/screen on dash/etc, probably says it all. It does the job, it's hatchback-light under 30mph, it weights up once you are making some progress, and I thought it was accurate. Definitely agree with SFO's review above that it is "Okay". Just don't expect it to be a Caterham though!
Interior:
I like the layout and simplicity of the interior very much - the infotainment system is very intuitive; I like the screen on the dash; the bluetooth connection to the phone was seamless; the main buttons/switches/stalks have the "right" feel about them. I liked the cloth seats very much, finding that the most comfortable position was to have the seat frame one click away from all the way back, and then to lean the seat back as far as it can go. I am 6'3, and had just over 1" headroom left with the roof up - a cosy fit but a comfortale fit nevertheless. I stayed very comfortable throughout our 4hr drive.
Unfortunately my companion found the passenger seat uncomfortable (but she was happy with the driver's seat!). Apparently the small bulge in the passenger footwell was causing her to sit slightly skew to the left, which was not ideal for longer periods of time. Interestingly, neither of us had any issues with the much bigger bulge in the driver footwell, as the left leg goes well above this bulge when on the clutch or on the footrest.
I sat in a 2.0 Sport later in the day, and found the leather seats to be a bit softer than the cloth seats - though I wonder if that is because the SE-L car was basically brand new, while the Sport had a few thousand miles in it.
Interestingly I thought the visibility through the windshield was a bit better in the SE-L - the Sport model has a larger rear view mirror (due to the auto-dimming tech), and it also has the lane departure warning system installed behind and above the rear view mirror, blocking off a bit more windshield from view. As my line of sight is relatively high at 6'3, I immediately noticed this "dead-zone" upon sitting the the Sport model.
My only gripe with the SE-L spec is with the interior finishes in general. Simply put, there is just too much going on, relative to the Sport model:
Air vents: piano black look plastic
Climate control knobs: aluminium look plastic
Lower dash: black hard plastic
Door inserts, gear and handbrake cover: leather with red stitching
Door trim around electric window switches: carbon fibre look plastic
Seats: Cloth with red stitching
By comparison, the Sport model interior was much more cohesive - leather with stitching trim throughout the cabin, including lower dash, with aluminium look plastic on air vents and controls.
Overall, I was very happy with the ND test drive. I loved driving the car, and am really looking forward to taking delivery of my pre-order in a few weeks. One thing I will make sure to do though is to standardise the interior once some accessories become available. I have seen that alcantara trim is being offered throughout the cabin on some continental European models, so hopefully that will work its way around to a dealer-fit option list in the UK sooner or later!
I too was out at the South Downs event this weekend, and managed to nab a 2.0 SE-L Nav, which the other half and I drove for just under 140 miles over the course of 4 hours. Really grateful that the team there managed to give me one of the two or three 2.0 SE-L Nav's that they had, out of approx. 60 NDs that were there - I have pre-ordered a car in this spec back in April, and was really hoping to try out the exact model I had ordered. Apart from the demonstrator being in Mica Grey instead of the Soul Red that I pre-ordered, I was assured this car was the exact production version that I will receive at the beginning of October.
Driving impressions:
Very willing 2.0 engine, with the red line coming quickly once you are pushing on past 4,000prm. The engine only had 235 miles on it when I picked up the car, but I felt it was very much alive.
Excellent gearbox and very precise-feeling gearchanges, although I did find that very fast down-changes from 3rd to 2nd required a bit of "faith" that you didn't end up in 4th... blame for that one likely to lie with driver skill..
Relatively short gearing means you can have a heap of fun at legal speeds - think we were seeing 2nd approach 6,000rpm around 50mph, with the engine at about 4,500 in 3rd at 60mph.. perfect for the 60mph roads through the South Downs!
We loved the sound of the exhaust with the top down, it had a great growl from about 3.500 rpm onwards.
I thought the suspension was spot-on - very compliant on all but the worst surfaces, while providing lots of feedback in terms of what is happening under the car. The only downside was that the rear-view mirror seemed to be in a constant violent shake whenever we drove on anything but the smoothest surfaces - didn't bother me too much though.
Even though I had read numerous comments/reviews about the "lean" under brisk cornering, it was still disconcerting the first time it happened - however, we found it very easy to be confident about the car's handling when you realise how composed the car is once it is "leaning".
Steering: the fact that I didn't really think about the steering at all for the first 30min or so, while we chatted about the engine/exhaust/suspension/interior/screen on dash/etc, probably says it all. It does the job, it's hatchback-light under 30mph, it weights up once you are making some progress, and I thought it was accurate. Definitely agree with SFO's review above that it is "Okay". Just don't expect it to be a Caterham though!
Interior:
I like the layout and simplicity of the interior very much - the infotainment system is very intuitive; I like the screen on the dash; the bluetooth connection to the phone was seamless; the main buttons/switches/stalks have the "right" feel about them. I liked the cloth seats very much, finding that the most comfortable position was to have the seat frame one click away from all the way back, and then to lean the seat back as far as it can go. I am 6'3, and had just over 1" headroom left with the roof up - a cosy fit but a comfortale fit nevertheless. I stayed very comfortable throughout our 4hr drive.
Unfortunately my companion found the passenger seat uncomfortable (but she was happy with the driver's seat!). Apparently the small bulge in the passenger footwell was causing her to sit slightly skew to the left, which was not ideal for longer periods of time. Interestingly, neither of us had any issues with the much bigger bulge in the driver footwell, as the left leg goes well above this bulge when on the clutch or on the footrest.
I sat in a 2.0 Sport later in the day, and found the leather seats to be a bit softer than the cloth seats - though I wonder if that is because the SE-L car was basically brand new, while the Sport had a few thousand miles in it.
Interestingly I thought the visibility through the windshield was a bit better in the SE-L - the Sport model has a larger rear view mirror (due to the auto-dimming tech), and it also has the lane departure warning system installed behind and above the rear view mirror, blocking off a bit more windshield from view. As my line of sight is relatively high at 6'3, I immediately noticed this "dead-zone" upon sitting the the Sport model.
My only gripe with the SE-L spec is with the interior finishes in general. Simply put, there is just too much going on, relative to the Sport model:
Air vents: piano black look plastic
Climate control knobs: aluminium look plastic
Lower dash: black hard plastic
Door inserts, gear and handbrake cover: leather with red stitching
Door trim around electric window switches: carbon fibre look plastic
Seats: Cloth with red stitching
By comparison, the Sport model interior was much more cohesive - leather with stitching trim throughout the cabin, including lower dash, with aluminium look plastic on air vents and controls.
Overall, I was very happy with the ND test drive. I loved driving the car, and am really looking forward to taking delivery of my pre-order in a few weeks. One thing I will make sure to do though is to standardise the interior once some accessories become available. I have seen that alcantara trim is being offered throughout the cabin on some continental European models, so hopefully that will work its way around to a dealer-fit option list in the UK sooner or later!
MX-5 2L SE-L wins Autocar's under £30k handling test
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/anything-goes/ev...
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/anything-goes/ev...
Thanks for the comprehensive review dpop. I think you'll have a cracking car.
Sounds like you're happy with the seat cloth, which just goes to show we're all different. Interestingly my wife mentioned some lower back ache from the passenger seat which I'd completely forgotten about!
And I agree, I think the steering is fine.
Sounds like you're happy with the seat cloth, which just goes to show we're all different. Interestingly my wife mentioned some lower back ache from the passenger seat which I'd completely forgotten about!
And I agree, I think the steering is fine.
I drove the 2.0 Sport this weekend at the same event and thought it was fantastic. For those complaining about the suspension, are you all used to driving barges about or something? Compared with my Mk1 on decent coilovers the ride was barely any different, in fact better! Only once or twice did I feel it get overwhelmed by a bump - in 6 hours driving that's good in my book.
I don't get the whole "1.5 engine is better" nonsense either - the 2.0 has the perfect amount of grunt available, any less and I'd feel cheated in a modern car. It revs nicely and the gearing means you can have fun at legal speeds.
Interior wise, the handbrake being on the wrong side was annoying and the cupholders are pants. The floor bulges are a complete non-issue - neither myself of my gf (6"5 and 5"6) touched them so I'm not sure what you're all doing - got bandy legs maybe? My legs were well past the bulge when driving, I genuinely can't see how it would affect anyone? Quality was superb I found, though I did have the leather seats and all the toys - can't speak for the lesser models sadly.
Anyway, it's a cracking car and I just wish I could afford one.
Oh and obligatory pic:
I don't get the whole "1.5 engine is better" nonsense either - the 2.0 has the perfect amount of grunt available, any less and I'd feel cheated in a modern car. It revs nicely and the gearing means you can have fun at legal speeds.
Interior wise, the handbrake being on the wrong side was annoying and the cupholders are pants. The floor bulges are a complete non-issue - neither myself of my gf (6"5 and 5"6) touched them so I'm not sure what you're all doing - got bandy legs maybe? My legs were well past the bulge when driving, I genuinely can't see how it would affect anyone? Quality was superb I found, though I did have the leather seats and all the toys - can't speak for the lesser models sadly.
Anyway, it's a cracking car and I just wish I could afford one.
Oh and obligatory pic:
For reference I would also consider a Mk1 on coilovers horrible in terms of suspension so tastes will clearly differ there! I drive an RX-8 on stiffer springs but standard shocks as a daily and the MX-5 was very much like that.
I just didn't like the 2.0 engine at all and don't think it suits the car. The 1.5 felt like a "modern 1.6 Mk1" which is the holy grail as far as I'm concerned.
I just didn't like the 2.0 engine at all and don't think it suits the car. The 1.5 felt like a "modern 1.6 Mk1" which is the holy grail as far as I'm concerned.
thecremeegg said:
I drove the 2.0 Sport this weekend at the same event and thought it was fantastic. For those complaining about the suspension, are you all used to driving barges about or something?
Nope. I currently drive a 987.2 Cayman S. My previous NC2 Sport Tech's suspension (also Billies) used to drive me nuts because someone at Mazda clearly decided that hard = sporty. If a cars tyres aren't in contact with the road they can't put the power down... But each to their own.
BTW in 12 months time my next car will be an MX5 2.0 SE-L (with a few select mods).
lilwashu said:
For reference I would also consider a Mk1 on coilovers horrible in terms of suspension so tastes will clearly differ there! I drive an RX-8 on stiffer springs but standard shocks as a daily and the MX-5 was very much like that.
I just didn't like the 2.0 engine at all and don't think it suits the car. The 1.5 felt like a "modern 1.6 Mk1" which is the holy grail as far as I'm concerned.
What was wrong with the 2.0 engine can I ask? Is it the fact you need to rev the 1.5 that makes it preferable? For me it's a chore and part of the reason IO don't want something like an S2000 that needs revving constantly to make progress. The low down grunt is great for powering out of corners or up a hill. I just didn't like the 2.0 engine at all and don't think it suits the car. The 1.5 felt like a "modern 1.6 Mk1" which is the holy grail as far as I'm concerned.
But horses for courses I guess.
Cabsi said:
Nope. I currently drive a 987.2 Cayman S. My previous NC2 Sport Tech's suspension (also Billies) used to drive me nuts because someone at Mazda clearly decided that hard = sporty. If a cars tyres aren't in contact with the road they can't put the power down...
But each to their own.
BTW in 12 months time my next car will be an MX5 2.0 SE-L (with a few select mods).
But like I said, I only had an issue a couple of times in 6 hours of driving so I don't know what people are doing for them to be a problem? Maybe it's because I'm used to firm suspension? If it means anything, my missus said the ride was good and she isn't a fan of bumps!But each to their own.
BTW in 12 months time my next car will be an MX5 2.0 SE-L (with a few select mods).
Edited by thecremeegg on Monday 14th September 21:54
I can't really put my finger on my preference of the 1.5 (I was certain that the 2.0 was for me until I drove them) - I think it's probably the smoother power delivery that kept building towards the redline in the 1.5 vs the peaky low down power of the 2. 0 which seemed to run out of puff fairly quickly.
thecremeegg said:
But like I said, I only had an issue a couple of times in 6 hours of driving so I don't know what people are doing for them to be a problem? Maybe it's because I'm used to firm suspension? If it means anything, my missus said the ride was good and she isn't a fan of bumps!
My wife didn't complain about the ride on the Sport either. I don't mind firm suspension if the dampers can react quick enough to the inevitable broken surfaces we have to live with in the UK. The softer set up on the SE-L absorbed the bumps instead of skipping across them. When cornering hard in the Sport, the front and back could be felt skipping (only slightly) across the road from bump to bump. On smooth roads it wasn't a problem.Edited by thecremeegg on Monday 14th September 21:54
I was seriously considering an Ohlins set up on my NC2 (stupidly didn't consider the SE spec dampers!) as I know they react much quicker because of their sophisticated valving. But at £1500 fitted, I decided the time was right to get the Porker. There's a good explanation of the effect in Figs 3 and 4 of this link:
http://www.roadandtrackbyohlins.com/
But as I said, everyone is different, so having a choice is good. I just suspect most will default to the Sport without even trying the SE-L, as its supposed to be the best one. For me the difference in suspension sophistication was night and day.
lilwashu said:
I can't really put my finger on my preference of the 1.5 (I was certain that the 2.0 was for me until I drove them) - I think it's probably the smoother power delivery that kept building towards the redline in the 1.5 vs the peaky low down power of the 2. 0 which seemed to run out of puff fairly quickly.
I found the lack of noise in the 1.5 a disappointment. The 1.5 drove a lot like my mk1 1.8, in that you had to work it to get anywhere.
Meanwhile, the 2 litre felt almost too powerful, as in the fun only started at high speeds and the low speed stuff could just be dealt with by the greater torque available. It made a far better noise, however.
I'm more or less settled on the 2 litre now, with standard suspension.
Interesting to see how different things are appealing to different people - I had a very brief drive in the 1.5 after my day out in the 2.0 and felt the 1.5 did not have enough to justify the extra 800-ish rpm at your disposal.
In fact I thought it was the 1.5 that needed some more revs rather than the 2.0! I thought if only the 1.5 could rev to 8,500 - 9,000 rpm ... then it would have been a true N/A hero, with the favourable comparisons to the S2000 etc.
As it stands, to me it seemed that I had to drive at about 1,500 rpm higher than the 2.0L to make a similar kind of progress in each gear..except the car didn't feel "right" at that sort of rev range unless it was accelarating.
I guess what I am saying is that driving at a constant 4,500 rpm when the limiter is at 7,500 feels and sounds like you need to change gear - whereas driving at 3,000 rpm with the limiter at 6,700 feels "right"...so while the extra revs of the 1.5 allow for a (little)bit more in-gear fun, the downside is that any time spent driving without accelerating served to remind me that I had to change gears in order to make any sort of progress.
Edited to include pic of the 2.0 SE-L from the South Downs event..
In fact I thought it was the 1.5 that needed some more revs rather than the 2.0! I thought if only the 1.5 could rev to 8,500 - 9,000 rpm ... then it would have been a true N/A hero, with the favourable comparisons to the S2000 etc.
As it stands, to me it seemed that I had to drive at about 1,500 rpm higher than the 2.0L to make a similar kind of progress in each gear..except the car didn't feel "right" at that sort of rev range unless it was accelarating.
I guess what I am saying is that driving at a constant 4,500 rpm when the limiter is at 7,500 feels and sounds like you need to change gear - whereas driving at 3,000 rpm with the limiter at 6,700 feels "right"...so while the extra revs of the 1.5 allow for a (little)bit more in-gear fun, the downside is that any time spent driving without accelerating served to remind me that I had to change gears in order to make any sort of progress.
Edited to include pic of the 2.0 SE-L from the South Downs event..
Edited by dpop on Tuesday 15th September 15:03
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