turbo, supercharged, tuning, please sensible advice

turbo, supercharged, tuning, please sensible advice

Author
Discussion

NitrousRuss

Original Poster:

96 posts

256 months

Thursday 30th April 2015
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Hi all
Advice needed, I have mx5 2.0 2007 and looking to get some tuning work. I've had the car remapped by skuzzel motorsport, (great guy nows his stuff) free flowing exhaust from the main cat back, with a k&n filter, dyno reads 184hp but the main thing car drives aand feels great. Looking to get some more work done, looked in to turbo and supercharging, remember mine is the mk3 engine not the 3.5 engine, different people are saying weak bottom ends, so jumping from 180hp to 250/260 hp will blow the bottom end, look at the trouble mx5 parts had with there mk3. So instead looking at heads, cams, throttle bodies, and racing beat manifold, with remapping, or perhaps last option, 2.5l engine swap
What I'm asking has anyone out the had any of these mods or parts of these mods, what they really had gained in the real world in terms of hp, or any real problems with rereliability, the head and cams would be from ric wood racing, so has anyone had these fitted, the turbo will be from bbr so again reliability, the car is used every day, also track days here and Europe, I also do touring in Europe like the alps and passes in Italy,
I hope this makes sense
At the moment I'm sitting here getting a full gaz suspension fitted and setup by the guy's at bubble and kick racing in Essex,so will let you how all that goes later
Russell

MX-5 Lazza

7,952 posts

218 months

Thursday 30th April 2015
quotequote all
I thought the problems with the original supercharger on the Mk3 engine were caused by the tuning/ignition mapping rather than any inherent weakness in the Mk3 engine and that they fixed all those problems. Yes I know the Mk3.5 engine has introduced a forged crank but I don't think that has anything to do with it, they wouldn't do that to help the aftermarket supercharger/turbo suppliers.

NitrousRuss

Original Poster:

96 posts

256 months

Thursday 30th April 2015
quotequote all
Thanks for the reply lazza

I don't think they changed the engine internal for the aftermarket tuning, but another of mx5 tuners have turned round and said that alot of engines of the mk3 have a bottom end weakness, so it would be interesting to find out if there Many mk3s out there with big power hikes to see if they have had any issues

Russell

roddo

569 posts

194 months

Thursday 30th April 2015
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Hi Russ
As per our phone conversation, we have had issues with BBR turbo kits where BBR would not replace warped manifolds
After being used on track, even though every evo pic you see of a Bbr car is 'on track'

My advise is to go for a 2.5 engine conversion......
You won't regret it!!

My demo is available anytime for you to try.

Paul

NitrousRuss

Original Poster:

96 posts

256 months

Thursday 30th April 2015
quotequote all
Hi Paul
Thanks for the reply I was trying to be subtle about bbr and there turbo kits Lol..... After speaking with you yesterday it looks the 2.5l is the way to go. But it's interesting that you're the only mx5 tuner / expert to actually come forward with a recommendation...

Russell

g40steve

922 posts

161 months

Thursday 30th April 2015
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Paul was dabbling with mk3's while the rest were playing with mk1's.
Was originally going to buy his mk1 turbo till I had a drive of his mk3 race car cool
That was six years & 40 track days ago.
I bought my latest car from him with many track modifications knowing his warranty is valid for trackdays driving

Blue One

463 posts

178 months

Saturday 2nd May 2015
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Just to add some balance to this thread - 'Roddo' is Roddisons Motor Sport, a Sheffield based MX5 aftermarket sports tuner. They sell the 2.5 modded engine so clearly have an agenda promoting it on forums like this - so far so good.

What isn't so good, however, is the somewhat sinister way that Roddisons and various 'chums' have tried to systematically discredit BBR's turbo for the MX5 mk3/3.5 - this slick social media program appears on most UK and US forums where people are discussing the turbo.

BBR on the other hand tends to stay out of the fray (probably to its credit but also disadvantage)

The reason for this ongoing campaign against BBR seems to hinge on two things:

- Roddison claiming the use of the BBR turbo it has fitted to customers' cars has shown problems with the exhaust manifold warping under extreme heat on track use
- BBR saying Roddisons does not install kit in a professional way and it's customers have complained about this

(I suspect there is also a lot of jealously in the MX5 tuning world that BBR has enjoyed so much success in the media with its turbo products)

There may be legitimate debate about whether BBR managed its guidance on using the turbo on track properly, and whether existing customers should be offered a free cast manifold upgrade. However, the reality is that the BBR Turbo kit is fantastic for road use and only a few minor cases of manifold failure have come up around track day use. There is also a huge row now between the two tuners about this that does neither of them credit.

I just wanted it post this to try and put some balance on the debate as I personally find the orchestrated smear campaign against BBR by Roddisons not only makes them look unprofessional and unethical, it also damages BBR and MORE IMPORTANTLY does not present a balanced debate on MX 5 3/3.5 tuning options out there.

Having said that Roddisons tuning solutions and engine upgrades are a great option, but, by the same token so are those from BBR.

Hope this puts some context for PHers looking at this thread for guidance on what to consider.

Edited by Blue One on Saturday 2nd May 13:48

Gilhooligan

2,211 posts

143 months

Saturday 2nd May 2015
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BBR aren't completely innocent either on the media front. Does anyone remember seeing their post on facebook page where they had a customer's car in and changed the Meister R coilovers with their own springs and some other dampers?

They claimed that the Meisters were 'cheap Chinese coilovers'. They ended up having to edit the post as everyone was slating them, saying they wouldn't use them again etc.

NitrousRuss

Original Poster:

96 posts

256 months

Sunday 3rd May 2015
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Hi guy's this is great for a debate, but it doesn't answer my initial thoughts or worries, if I'm looking to spend more than £6000. On a turbo or supercharger is the mk3 upto the nearly 80hp more with out letting go. There must be people out there who have known of others who run these turbos, if so are they reliable with the engine or any other tuning like I asked heads,cams,throttle bodies.
Many thanks
Russell

Blue One

463 posts

178 months

Monday 4th May 2015
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NitrousRuss said:
Hi guy's this is great for a debate, but it doesn't answer my initial thoughts or worries, if I'm looking to spend more than £6000. On a turbo or supercharger is the mk3 upto the nearly 80hp more with out letting go. There must be people out there who have known of others who run these turbos, if so are they reliable with the engine or any other tuning like I asked heads,cams,throttle bodies.
Many thanks
Russell
For a mk3/3.5 and with a GBP6k budget I think a BBR turbo stage one conversion (300bhp) is a no-brainier as I have first hand experience of this. However, if you are a regular 'track dayer' you may want to tread more cautiously but hopefully BBRs new cast iron exhaust manifold addresses any issues that existed. Others may agree or disagree with this view....

Gandahar

9,600 posts

127 months

Tuesday 5th May 2015
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Blue One said:
NitrousRuss said:
Hi guy's this is great for a debate, but it doesn't answer my initial thoughts or worries, if I'm looking to spend more than £6000. On a turbo or supercharger is the mk3 upto the nearly 80hp more with out letting go. There must be people out there who have known of others who run these turbos, if so are they reliable with the engine or any other tuning like I asked heads,cams,throttle bodies.
Many thanks
Russell
For a mk3/3.5 and with a GBP6k budget I think a BBR turbo stage one conversion (300bhp) is a no-brainier as I have first hand experience of this. However, if you are a regular 'track dayer' you may want to tread more cautiously but hopefully BBRs new cast iron exhaust manifold addresses any issues that existed. Others may agree or disagree with this view....
Their 300bhp is the stage 2 which has uprated clutch, the stage 1 is about 260bhp. The stage 1 should be pretty reliable, it's only 130bhp per litre. Not sure if the track cars which had the blowing manifolds was stage 1 or 2. I suspect stage 2. Has the cast iron manifold sorted it then? (I'm staying well clear of commenting on who was right or wrong on the matter but it was ugly to watch and might have put some people off both sides sadly ).

Isn't this engine in Ford flavour the same engine Caterham supercharge up to 300+bhp in their 620? It seems really robust, so 260 should be a doddle.

BBR no longer do the supercharger, if it is still on their site then they need to remove the pages. Interestingly this also had issues at the start as Cosworth did good hardware but the software needed a lot of fine tuning.

It's hard for smaller tuners to so as much stress testing as the major manufacturers of course, and even they can go wrong, Porsche 991 GT3 engine for instance !

It's been going at least a year now the turbo BBR and they seem to have got on top of the one weak spot, so should be a confident buy.

NitrousRuss

Original Poster:

96 posts

256 months

Tuesday 5th May 2015
quotequote all
This is great getting some good feedback back on turbo kits and it seems the manifolds have seemed to be sorted, and yes there are lots of different car running this base engine with more power, but have the intinternals been upgraded, do the last two who have commented know of any mk3 running turbos or is it only mk3.5 running turbo's

nikpro

127 posts

225 months

Wednesday 6th May 2015
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Russ,

you could also give Blink Motorsport a call - They will give you a very balanced view on tuning the MX5 NC and also have a very exciting performance upgrade for the NC in the 'pipeline'.

They have dynoed some of BBR products (camshafts & re-maps) and found they produce exactly what it says on the tin!

R8FUN

266 posts

202 months

Wednesday 6th May 2015
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My Corten-Miller Rotrex supercharger conversion has been faultless, there is another option!

NitrousRuss

Original Poster:

96 posts

256 months

Wednesday 6th May 2015
quotequote all
Hi nikpro
Rang blink motorsport they are under the same thought mk3 might not be up it (turbo) it would be better to go for a mk3.5 engine, cams would be OK and another remap with a racing beat manifold. Apparently the mk3 engines don't like to be revd and that's there weak point, even the bbr cam and manifold will only make 200hp at high revs
So it seems there is not much option out there apart from 2.5 conversion with plenty of torque but no high reving unless you start charging cams or a good 3.5 engine then a turbo, they are looking at there turbo own turbo conversion with adjustable boost which sounds great. So if anyone out there know of a really good mk3.5 engine at a good price please get in touch

Russell

g40steve

922 posts

161 months

Saturday 9th May 2015
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nikpro said:
Russ,

you could also give Blink Motorsport a call - They will give you a very balanced view on tuning the MX5 NC and also have a very exciting performance upgrade for the NC in the 'pipeline'.

They have dynoed some of BBR products (camshafts & re-maps) and found they produce exactly what it says on the tin!
Are you not Blink anyway??? confused

Blue One

463 posts

178 months

Saturday 9th May 2015
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g40steve said:
Are you not Blink anyway??? confused
confused

furious

nikpro

127 posts

225 months

Tuesday 12th May 2015
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g40steve said:
Are you not Blink anyway??? confused
Steve - I am a director at BLiNK Motorsport but whenever I explain products on Pistonheads the posts are removed as someone complains to the Moderators; unlike other posters on this forum who seem to be able to promote their products freely?? - hence the request to make a phone call to the original OP.

Russ,
I beleive you spoke to Richard and I hope you found his advice useful & balanced - I did speak to Richard about the conversation and we have had a couple of ideas that may assist if you wish to drop us an email.

HTH clears matters up.

GC8

19,910 posts

189 months

Wednesday 17th June 2015
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Blue One said:
What isn't so good, however, is the somewhat sinister way that Roddisons and various 'chums' have tried to systematically discredit BBR's turbo for the MX5 mk3/3.5 - this slick social media program appears on most UK and US forums where people are discussing the turbo.
Absolute rubbish. You are welcome to your opinion, but when such a disingenuous posts deserves derision.

ScorpKing

109 posts

200 months

Thursday 18th June 2015
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To try and bring this back on topic again - I have a 2007 NC roadster and looked into the supercharger / turbo upgrade as they were going through some notable failures circa 2008/9 and I was advised by an number of aftermarket suppliers that certain engine components were strengthened and are in models from 2010 onwards. There have been less failures since these engine changes where made and super or turbo chargers have been fitted is my understanding ?