Discussion
feef said:
sjg said:
Found this via that carthrottle video - looks great.
For comparison, if you called Flyin Miata and bought all the parts for a LS conversion (minus engine/box) it would be about $15k. I imagine a LS is rather more expensive to get your hands on than a Jaguar 3.0 too, it's not like we have scrapyards full of GM V8 cars to get them from.
You don't 'need' to go down the LS route tho.For comparison, if you called Flyin Miata and bought all the parts for a LS conversion (minus engine/box) it would be about $15k. I imagine a LS is rather more expensive to get your hands on than a Jaguar 3.0 too, it's not like we have scrapyards full of GM V8 cars to get them from.
So far I've spent:
1UZ engine (4.0 quad cam V8): £350
Toyota W58 gearbox : £300
gearbox conversion kit : £700
Subframe : £300
Exhaust system : £TBA
I already have a standaone ECU and 1UZ loom so the bulk of the components are there for under £2k.
The more valuable component of that £6k price tag is the time spent and experience gained in making it all fit and work together. Something I'm happy doing, and will fabricate brackets and whatnot, but not everyone has the ability or tooling to make such parts so a plug-and-play solution is worth looking at.
If you were to buy a machine-shop worth of tools to fabricate the parts you need, you'd need more than £6k, and that's before you factor in the time spent dropping the engine in, out, in out, and waving it all about while you work out what goes where.
VladD said:
feef said:
sjg said:
Found this via that carthrottle video - looks great.
For comparison, if you called Flyin Miata and bought all the parts for a LS conversion (minus engine/box) it would be about $15k. I imagine a LS is rather more expensive to get your hands on than a Jaguar 3.0 too, it's not like we have scrapyards full of GM V8 cars to get them from.
You don't 'need' to go down the LS route tho.For comparison, if you called Flyin Miata and bought all the parts for a LS conversion (minus engine/box) it would be about $15k. I imagine a LS is rather more expensive to get your hands on than a Jaguar 3.0 too, it's not like we have scrapyards full of GM V8 cars to get them from.
So far I've spent:
1UZ engine (4.0 quad cam V8): £350
Toyota W58 gearbox : £300
gearbox conversion kit : £700
Subframe : £300
Exhaust system : £TBA
I already have a standaone ECU and 1UZ loom so the bulk of the components are there for under £2k.
The more valuable component of that £6k price tag is the time spent and experience gained in making it all fit and work together. Something I'm happy doing, and will fabricate brackets and whatnot, but not everyone has the ability or tooling to make such parts so a plug-and-play solution is worth looking at.
If you were to buy a machine-shop worth of tools to fabricate the parts you need, you'd need more than £6k, and that's before you factor in the time spent dropping the engine in, out, in out, and waving it all about while you work out what goes where.
Once you get beyond that, then you're also into the realms of breaking half-shafts and also considering wider wheels to try and retain some traction. In my case, at least, I want to keep the car looking 'stock' on the outside so massive mods to accommodate larger wheels and whatnot aren't on my list
I've been following this kit since the prototype build, and am currently in regular contact with Bruce (Rocketeer) about getting hold of one...
One thing that's worth being in mind is that the kit cost covers everything except the engine and fitting. Full exhaust, mapped ecu, clutch, electric water pump, etc.
So much more predictable costs for a proper installation, buy the kit and a cheap engine, couple of days labour if not fitting yourself, alignment and probably some wishbones bolts. Done.
Compare to the TDR rotrex kit, not much difference in price for the kit, but you're getting a piggyback ecu, will need a clutch, etc. Not much in it for the same power, but one has a v6 soundtrack and fewer reliability worries using a stock engine in a far lighter application.
Just my two pennies worth.
One thing that's worth being in mind is that the kit cost covers everything except the engine and fitting. Full exhaust, mapped ecu, clutch, electric water pump, etc.
So much more predictable costs for a proper installation, buy the kit and a cheap engine, couple of days labour if not fitting yourself, alignment and probably some wishbones bolts. Done.
Compare to the TDR rotrex kit, not much difference in price for the kit, but you're getting a piggyback ecu, will need a clutch, etc. Not much in it for the same power, but one has a v6 soundtrack and fewer reliability worries using a stock engine in a far lighter application.
Just my two pennies worth.
Sway said:
Should be www.rocketeerltd.com
Cool, thanks 
Looks like a nicely executed idea.
Interesting choice the Jag V6 - wonder if the Ford V6 could be used instead?
AIUI, the mounting points on the block are the same...
However, I'd imagine the ecu will need remapping, and I've found that the jag v6 is bloody cheap, easily available and typically originally hooked up to a wafty auto so not sure why it would be appealing other than if you've already got one lying around?
However, I'd imagine the ecu will need remapping, and I've found that the jag v6 is bloody cheap, easily available and typically originally hooked up to a wafty auto so not sure why it would be appealing other than if you've already got one lying around?
Sway said:
AIUI, the mounting points on the block are the same...
However, I'd imagine the ecu will need remapping, and I've found that the jag v6 is bloody cheap, easily available and typically originally hooked up to a wafty auto so not sure why it would be appealing other than if you've already got one lying around?
The Jag engine is quite different to the Ford engine inside. It's got more torque than the Ford unit though.However, I'd imagine the ecu will need remapping, and I've found that the jag v6 is bloody cheap, easily available and typically originally hooked up to a wafty auto so not sure why it would be appealing other than if you've already got one lying around?
Podie said:
Sway said:
AIUI, the mounting points on the block are the same...
However, I'd imagine the ecu will need remapping, and I've found that the jag v6 is bloody cheap, easily available and typically originally hooked up to a wafty auto so not sure why it would be appealing other than if you've already got one lying around?
The Jag engine is quite different to the Ford engine inside. It's got more torque than the Ford unit though.However, I'd imagine the ecu will need remapping, and I've found that the jag v6 is bloody cheap, easily available and typically originally hooked up to a wafty auto so not sure why it would be appealing other than if you've already got one lying around?
feef said:
Podie said:
Sway said:
AIUI, the mounting points on the block are the same...
However, I'd imagine the ecu will need remapping, and I've found that the jag v6 is bloody cheap, easily available and typically originally hooked up to a wafty auto so not sure why it would be appealing other than if you've already got one lying around?
The Jag engine is quite different to the Ford engine inside. It's got more torque than the Ford unit though.However, I'd imagine the ecu will need remapping, and I've found that the jag v6 is bloody cheap, easily available and typically originally hooked up to a wafty auto so not sure why it would be appealing other than if you've already got one lying around?
As for the Mazda, the 6 MPS was a 2.3 litre, 4-pot.
Podie said:
feef said:
Podie said:
Sway said:
AIUI, the mounting points on the block are the same...
However, I'd imagine the ecu will need remapping, and I've found that the jag v6 is bloody cheap, easily available and typically originally hooked up to a wafty auto so not sure why it would be appealing other than if you've already got one lying around?
The Jag engine is quite different to the Ford engine inside. It's got more torque than the Ford unit though.However, I'd imagine the ecu will need remapping, and I've found that the jag v6 is bloody cheap, easily available and typically originally hooked up to a wafty auto so not sure why it would be appealing other than if you've already got one lying around?
As for the Mazda, the 6 MPS was a 2.3 litre, 4-pot.
I don't doubt you know a lot about them, doesn't mean others can't add their own little bits of info, and I welcome learning more and having my knowledge corrected
feef said:
Podie said:
feef said:
Podie said:
Sway said:
AIUI, the mounting points on the block are the same...
However, I'd imagine the ecu will need remapping, and I've found that the jag v6 is bloody cheap, easily available and typically originally hooked up to a wafty auto so not sure why it would be appealing other than if you've already got one lying around?
The Jag engine is quite different to the Ford engine inside. It's got more torque than the Ford unit though.However, I'd imagine the ecu will need remapping, and I've found that the jag v6 is bloody cheap, easily available and typically originally hooked up to a wafty auto so not sure why it would be appealing other than if you've already got one lying around?
As for the Mazda, the 6 MPS was a 2.3 litre, 4-pot.
I don't doubt you know a lot about them, doesn't mean others can't add their own little bits of info, and I welcome learning more and having my knowledge corrected
The Ford engine has finger followers, and a different cylinder head design as a result (different port angles as well). Pistons are different, even the sump is different between the Jag and Ford engines. The Jag has variable inlet VCT and produces quite a wide torque curve as a result. I also recall that the 3.0 Jag had a forged crank.
Just to bring this back up - review/drive by John Simister in this week's autocar... Suffice to say he's very impressed.
I don't think the value of the kit is being explained well enough. Yes, £6k plus VAT is a lot to spend on a '5, yet when you look at it including a full exhaust system, electric water pump, uprated clutch, mapped ecu and loom, and a bunch of other bits not included in most 'kits' then it's cheaper than installing a tdr rotrex kit to the same standard, and includes a lot more.
Personally think there's an argument to do a 'base' kit, with a similar level of provision as the typical turbo/supercharger kits, then a 'full fat' kit with absolutely everything in the box. Would overtly call out to the average target consumer where the value iis?
I don't think the value of the kit is being explained well enough. Yes, £6k plus VAT is a lot to spend on a '5, yet when you look at it including a full exhaust system, electric water pump, uprated clutch, mapped ecu and loom, and a bunch of other bits not included in most 'kits' then it's cheaper than installing a tdr rotrex kit to the same standard, and includes a lot more.
Personally think there's an argument to do a 'base' kit, with a similar level of provision as the typical turbo/supercharger kits, then a 'full fat' kit with absolutely everything in the box. Would overtly call out to the average target consumer where the value iis?
feef said:
Which Mazda used the V6? I'm sure one of them did?
I don't doubt you know a lot about them, doesn't mean others can't add their own little bits of info, and I welcome learning more and having my knowledge corrected
MX6 was the same platform and engine as the Probe V6 and I think the Xedos used a similar engine.I don't doubt you know a lot about them, doesn't mean others can't add their own little bits of info, and I welcome learning more and having my knowledge corrected
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
I think the other factor to consider over an above the 6k, is that you really need to start with a minter (body / chassis / running gear) , to validate the cause of dropping such money in to the car to make it a long termer.
That I think is the difficult part. IF it is to take and older one and make it a minter, add at least 3k to the bill.
So - in essence : is a £10k V6 MX5 Sportscar VFM and desirable.
I would venture - 'possibly'
I do see where you're coming from. For me, I ignore the perceived low value attributed to the mx5 badge.That I think is the difficult part. IF it is to take and older one and make it a minter, add at least 3k to the bill.
So - in essence : is a £10k V6 MX5 Sportscar VFM and desirable.
I would venture - 'possibly'
Put in terms of:
250bhp/ton
Under 1000kg
Superb handling and driver experience
Truly daily driveable
FR drivetrain
Lovely multicylinder soundtrack
Reliable, with pretty low running costs
Then what else is there? At any price...
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
But I still say, the hard part isn't the cash, nor the kit to apply - but finding a Donor Car sufficiently superb to warrant such a worthy future...
Now that is a fair shout. I know I ended up getting a good base at a price that let me get any rust issues dealt with and still be happy - spent a little less than expected getting it properly sorted, then a fortnight later the head gasket blew!I'd love to see a Singer/Eagle or even Frontline MGB style MX5 at a reasonable price (for me, I think I'd be willing to pay say current model price plus a couple of £k) with this kit as part of the overall package...
I've even figured out my personal 'wishlist' but quite a few of the items are only really feasible if the pattern making etc. is used at least a couple of times.
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