P5 Puredrive vs Gaz
Discussion
MX-5 Lazza said:
Cheers for the honest input Derek.
With regards to what you said about the P5 PD rear suspension, that tallys with my own findings. I had to put the rear shocks up a notch at the rear to as I found it was a little bit bouncy at the rear on the recommended settings but I'm very happy with how it feels now.
I think several of us have found this straight away, the suggested settings too bouncy on the rear. I took mine to a trackday and turned them up a click at a time until I was happy, i've not adjusted them since. I think i'm still well away from the limits of the available settings, its been a while since I set them up but if there are 16 positions and 8 was suggested i'm on something like 11 or 12.With regards to what you said about the P5 PD rear suspension, that tallys with my own findings. I had to put the rear shocks up a notch at the rear to as I found it was a little bit bouncy at the rear on the recommended settings but I'm very happy with how it feels now.
....still undecided....
Given my cars used every day by the Mrs. It's on (1996)standard shocks and springs and FM ARBs and we were (I was) happy with that but things are very soggy round the back now. I'm tempted to replace the shocks with standard. But am also tempted to upgrade so on the odd occasion I take it on track I can stiffen it up a bit. So the KYB AGX look like good option as they are not much more than the standard shocks from mx5parts. But how well do they go with standard springs....and why do the standard shocks have a ABS/non-ABS option....
Given my cars used every day by the Mrs. It's on (1996)standard shocks and springs and FM ARBs and we were (I was) happy with that but things are very soggy round the back now. I'm tempted to replace the shocks with standard. But am also tempted to upgrade so on the odd occasion I take it on track I can stiffen it up a bit. So the KYB AGX look like good option as they are not much more than the standard shocks from mx5parts. But how well do they go with standard springs....and why do the standard shocks have a ABS/non-ABS option....
by all means get the agx's (on a fairly soft setting) and use stock springs but you're car won't handle all that well if you just whack the damping up to max on track. with teh FM arb's it shouldn't be bad at all like that, just a little more dive and squat than you really need. you could maybe go one or two clicks stiffer than the road setting for track but any more than that and you'll just be way overdamped for your springs.
Howard- said:
Gah, I keep coming back to these http://www.mx5parts.co.uk/product_info.php/product... and having the alignment properly done at WIM and maybe the fitting or maybe fitting it myself.
Decisions, decisions...
If you do fit them yourself, at least get Tony to set up the car Decisions, decisions...
Edited by Howard- on Monday 22 December 15:38
skinny said:
maz8062 said:
Fair enough guys, I'm convinced.
Actually, the AGX/FM combo on my car is crap! Ok, I'm riding on 195/45 R14 tyres, a bigger sway bar and lots of braces, but it really is uncomfortable on any time of road surface that is not billiard smooth. I'd kind of learned to put up with it then this thread got me thinking after a jaunt across london yesterday evening. I've set them up on the softest setting yet it is still too hard and control is very difficult at town speeds.
New shocks are now on my list
if you have turned your dampers soft then you are under-damped for your springs! if you don't have soft foam and/or progressive bumpstops then you will exacerbate the problem. the FM's are looow, especially at the back, where there is precious little suspension travel.Actually, the AGX/FM combo on my car is crap! Ok, I'm riding on 195/45 R14 tyres, a bigger sway bar and lots of braces, but it really is uncomfortable on any time of road surface that is not billiard smooth. I'd kind of learned to put up with it then this thread got me thinking after a jaunt across london yesterday evening. I've set them up on the softest setting yet it is still too hard and control is very difficult at town speeds.
New shocks are now on my list
i have kyb agx with eibach springs, powerflex soft foam bumpstops (long, so that they are constant contact and there is no take-up - these add to teh relatively low spring stiffness of the eibach springs) and FM ARB's (with the rear adjusted stiffer to recude the understeer from teh soft rear eibach compared to the FM spring). i'm pretty happy with it, loses a bit of composure round a poorly surfaced corner but generally the ride and handling is good.
if i were to upgrade, having read this thread now, those gold's are probably the items i'd go for, as using the 2.5" springs just opens up a massive range of options to you (you can choose exactly your own spring rate and length), tho i don't know if the dampers are adjustable for different springs. laz, i would suggest that these would be fairly highly track focussed. i was talking to paul sheard when i had a go in his max5 racer, and he was saying that pretty much every car in that series would have been running the 2.5" springs, and he was very suprised at just how soft my eibachs were.
Edited by skinny on Monday 22 December 16:36
Ab Shocks said:
Howard- said:
Gah, I keep coming back to these http://www.mx5parts.co.uk/product_info.php/product... and having the alignment properly done at WIM and maybe the fitting or maybe fitting it myself.
Decisions, decisions...
If you do fit them yourself, at least get Tony to set up the car Decisions, decisions...
Edited by Howard- on Monday 22 December 15:38
Ab Shocks said:
Hand on heart, Gaz have not always covered themselves with glory but I have got the MD's ear and batter him regularly (as I do with all my manufacturers). All the initial teething problems on the 5's are now sorted and any old kits playing up have mostly been replaced or sorted.
The Gaz Gold Pro series are being sold to the public by Tony at WIM on an exclusive deal because I dont want bespoke kits being fitted by muppets and they will cover a range of springs for road or track without a revalve.
I must say I like the look of the spec on the Gold Pros although I'm not so sure about your selling policy!The Gaz Gold Pro series are being sold to the public by Tony at WIM on an exclusive deal because I dont want bespoke kits being fitted by muppets and they will cover a range of springs for road or track without a revalve.
Would you sell them to sprint/hillclimb competitors (ie me?). I don't necessarily want to travel 500miles just to have my suspension fitted when I can fit it myself and get someone I trust (who may well also be one of your recommended fitting centres
) to do the geometry (which I won't change whilst fitting the shocks and I get done regularly during the season anyway!)Edited by kevham on Monday 22 December 19:44
kevham said:
Ab Shocks said:
Hand on heart, Gaz have not always covered themselves with glory but I have got the MD's ear and batter him regularly (as I do with all my manufacturers). All the initial teething problems on the 5's are now sorted and any old kits playing up have mostly been replaced or sorted.
The Gaz Gold Pro series are being sold to the public by Tony at WIM on an exclusive deal because I dont want bespoke kits being fitted by muppets and they will cover a range of springs for road or track without a revalve.
I must say I like the look of the spec on the Gold Pros although I'm not so sure about your selling policy!The Gaz Gold Pro series are being sold to the public by Tony at WIM on an exclusive deal because I dont want bespoke kits being fitted by muppets and they will cover a range of springs for road or track without a revalve.
Would you sell them to sprint/hillclimb competitors (ie me?). I don't necessarily want to travel 500miles just to have my suspension fitted when I can fit it myself and get someone I trust (who may well also be one of your recommended fitting centres
) to do the geometry (which I won't change whilst fitting the shocks and I get done regularly during the season anyway!)Edited by kevham on Monday 22 December 19:44
Edited by Ab Shocks on Monday 22 December 21:26
MX-5 Lazza said:
I have 3 brand new unused FM springs sitting around gathering dust (not really, they are in a box ) in my garage. All you'd need is to buy the missing spring from P5.
If anyone wants them make me an offer.
I've got to ask. Sex game gone wrong? Bad plan to create your own pogo stick?) in my garage. All you'd need is to buy the missing spring from P5.If anyone wants them make me an offer.
What happened to that 4th spring?
skinny said:
maz8062 said:
Fair enough guys, I'm convinced.
Actually, the AGX/FM combo on my car is crap! Ok, I'm riding on 195/45 R14 tyres, a bigger sway bar and lots of braces, but it really is uncomfortable on any time of road surface that is not billiard smooth. I'd kind of learned to put up with it then this thread got me thinking after a jaunt across london yesterday evening. I've set them up on the softest setting yet it is still too hard and control is very difficult at town speeds.
New shocks are now on my list
if you have turned your dampers soft then you are under-damped for your springs! if you don't have soft foam and/or progressive bumpstops then you will exacerbate the problem. the FM's are looow, especially at the back, where there is precious little suspension travel.Actually, the AGX/FM combo on my car is crap! Ok, I'm riding on 195/45 R14 tyres, a bigger sway bar and lots of braces, but it really is uncomfortable on any time of road surface that is not billiard smooth. I'd kind of learned to put up with it then this thread got me thinking after a jaunt across london yesterday evening. I've set them up on the softest setting yet it is still too hard and control is very difficult at town speeds.
New shocks are now on my list
i have kyb agx with eibach springs, powerflex soft foam bumpstops (long, so that they are constant contact and there is no take-up - these add to teh relatively low spring stiffness of the eibach springs) and FM ARB's (with the rear adjusted stiffer to recude the understeer from teh soft rear eibach compared to the FM spring). i'm pretty happy with it, loses a bit of composure round a poorly surfaced corner but generally the ride and handling is good.
Edited by skinny on Monday 22 December 16:36
Any advice/suggestions appreciated
Howard- said:
This thread is confusing me! 
Come on ladies, what should I do? Gaz, or wait for P5?
The way I see it you can go either way;Come on ladies, what should I do? Gaz, or wait for P5?
- P5, 60 units or so sold with excellent reviews so far. Only downside, IMHO, is that there is a lack of long term data, so a purchase now is a gamble and you are placing faith in the excellent record of P5.
- Gaz, more data (some good, some not so) as the Gaz man has stated, all known issues have been ironed out and the new Gaz gold is comparable (in price) and the reviews, on this site, are favourable.
Given that you're unsure, your best bet is to sample a ride in cars running both set ups and make your choice from there.
God luck
Munter said:
MX-5 Lazza said:
I have 3 brand new unused FM springs sitting around gathering dust (not really, they are in a box ) in my garage. All you'd need is to buy the missing spring from P5.
If anyone wants them make me an offer.
I've got to ask. Sex game gone wrong? Bad plan to create your own pogo stick?) in my garage. All you'd need is to buy the missing spring from P5.If anyone wants them make me an offer.
What happened to that 4th spring?
Anyway...
The springs are from a set that were sent as warranty replacements for a broken spring. FM won't send a single spring as they say that fitting a new spring to an old set would unbalance the car - probably true. As the existing springs were very new anyway it was decided to swap only the broken spring so these are surplus to requirements.
This wasn't my car, it was a mate. While he was waiting for the warranty springs to turn up he borrowed a spring off me (I'd just swapped to PD so had my springs sitting in the garage). As a thank-you he gave me the unused springs so they don't owe me anything.
So like I said, make me an offer!
Sex games using a car spring? I'm not sure how that would work but it certainly sounds interesting!
maz8062 said:
Good points there skinny, so I'm under damped you think. I have the NB AGX/FM combo with NB top mounts. I thought the NB top mounts gave added travel especially for an NA. The NB AGX have 4 settings with 4 being the softest, 1 the hardest - I've tried the various settings and initially my current setting was very good, but I think the ride has got progressively worse over the 4 months or so that It's been at the current setting.
Any advice/suggestions appreciated
When I had my car on AGX/FM I had them set on 3 for the road and 2 on track. Any softer on the road and it got very bouncy (they are softer than stock on 4 so they can't handle the uprated springs). Any stiffer than 1 on the track was bad too, especially in the wet. Might as well have welded the suspension! I ran 2 on the road for a while as it did improve steering response but on rough roads it would skip & jump too much so I went back to 3. Any advice/suggestions appreciated
So in short I think the AGX/FM combo needs 2 or 3 on the road. 2 will be too stiff for most but some will enjoy it.
Howard- said:
Lazza, Wokingham's not far, perhaps we should go for a hoon sometime and you can demonstrate the abilities of the PD setup (and that supercharger )!
Come along to a Cobham Commoners meet ( PlanetMX5) and I'll be happy to take you for a spin. In fact there would be a variety of set-ups there - P5 PD, AGX/FM, GAZ, Koni (why has nobody mentioned Koni?)... )!maz8062 said:
Good points there skinny, so I'm under damped you think. I have the NB AGX/FM combo with NB top mounts. I thought the NB top mounts gave added travel especially for an NA. The NB AGX have 4 settings with 4 being the softest, 1 the hardest - I've tried the various settings and initially my current setting was very good, but I think the ride has got progressively worse over the 4 months or so that It's been at the current setting.
Any advice/suggestions appreciated
OK, the NB topmounts will definitely help the bottoming, especially at the rear - but i would think that on the softest setting you'll still be hitting the bumpstops over speed bumps, very poor roads / potholes, and on hard cornering, and the stock items are fairly non-progressive so as you squash them, you get a massive rise in spring rate which will feel like a very bouncy and unsettled rearAny advice/suggestions appreciated
springs also settle to their steady state height so maybe it's slightly lower than when they were first fitted. i would probably go for 3 all round or maybe even 2. it will feel firmer but you'll have more suitable damping for your set-up and the composure should improve even if the ride over small road imperfections gets a bit worse.
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