Turbo/SC track car - advice sought

[OnlyMX5ives]

I have had a few S1 and S2 TVR's and whilst they sound lovely my SC'd MX5 beats them in every other way.

Admittedly not much on my car is std and my TVR's were but there is a Coldside SC'd car in the classifieds for £3995 - which is excellent value IMO and would be better than a TVR of similar cost.

[OnlyMX5ives]

tybo said:

My 240 BHP FM2 does need delicate use of the throttle in wet conditions

I wouldn't say it's too fast for the road though...

It depends how you are wired... for example there's no way I could get a sportsbike on the road, I'd be in jail or dead.

The most restraint I can muster is not to buy one.

Its the reason I bought a Jet ski - no speed limits !

Edited by OnlyMX5ives on Monday 9th March 21:34

[MattjK]

chris7676 said:

Thanks, seen that advert, surely that price is NOT good at all. There is the MK2 turbo that is cheaper.

I know that specialist well as I have my own Eunos serviced there. I've been up close and personal with that SC'd Merlot, and believe me it's worth the cash. Every part has been upgraded, and every single thing is the best that money could buy at the time. The best suspension, the best engine components, you name it. Its current 224bhp is in a detuned state to try and widen its appeal. The previous owner had it at 260bhp and there was room left to increase that reliably.

In short, it's an absolutely lovely, lovely car, worth far more than its price tag. It'd be an ASTONISHING track car once tuned back up a little. I bet the Mk2 turbo you mention hasn't had the amount of money spent on it that this one has, and in fairness I bet it won't feel anything like as good.

[OnlyMX5ives]

My FM2 is later and faster and cheaper.

[Chris71]

OnlyMX5ives said:

I have had a few S1 and S2 TVR's and whilst they sound lovely my SC'd MX5 beats them in every other way.

Admittedly not much on my car is std and my TVR's were but there is a Coldside SC'd car in the classifieds for £3995 - which is excellent value IMO and would be better than a TVR of similar cost.

On the whole I'd agree. The only improvement I've noticed personally (apart from the 'go' but that'd be solved by forced induction like you say) is steering feel. That's not to say it's particularly precise and it's certainly not what you'd call direct at 4+ turns, but for pure indication of feedback the unassisted rack on the S takes some beating. They seem to be hugely sensitive to setup and my S3 has been revolutionised by a few minor modifications. It now handles better than my RS-LTD ever did. I don't doubt someone like WIM could have changed that (the TVR is after all nose heavy and not as torsionally rigid as it should be), but it shows the two cars aren't as far off as you might imagine.

The reason I'm lurking here with a very real intention of swapping back to an MX5 at some point isn't a dynamic improvement though, it's cost. I mentioned on another thread that the tyres for my current car are almost twice as much per corner as I payed for Eagle F1s on the Mazda a few years ago. Although basic servicing parts are quite cheap on the TVR, the moment you start being lazy and paying someone else to do it the cost goes up astronomically. Then there's tuning parts - anything from some harder brake pads to a full 300bhp turbo system is only a phone call away with an MX5 and all from the same place. I'd like to start doing more track days and if I put a mass produced steel bodied car into the crash barriers I'd just go to the scrapyard and get another door. With the TVR it's a big bill for fiberglass work.

Basically I'd like to be able to head off and do track days and possibly some club-level sprints or hillclimbs without the cost of making a mistake lurking in the back of my mind. An MX5 is more fun that a hot hatch, cheaper than most other sports cars and more convenient (with mass support on every high street and one stop shops like P5) than a kit car.

Anway, back on topic, I'd be inclined to keep it n/a from a cost point of view. Surely servicing and maintanence costs have got to go up (compared to a naturally aspirated '5) with more stress on the system and a forced induction system to go wrong?

And another random question whilst I'm hijacing the thread does anyone know of any affordable, low-level speed events you could enter a road legal MX5 into? Is there an MX5OC sprint championship or anything?

[Munter]

Do the MazdaonTrack guys have a little sprint competition going? Or is it just for fun?

There was talk of a hill climb series just for MX5s as they are not particularly competative in the class they fall into. No idea if that took off though. I was 1/2 tempted to enter and be uncompetative anyway! Then I remembered i'm too damned lazy to bother.

[OnlyMX5ives]

Re FI costs...

I've run FI'd 5's for around 10 yrs.

The only extra costs that I can remember are extra fuel and an uprated clutch.

I have upgraded brakes and pads etc but you don't have to.

[Chris71]

OnlyMX5ives said:

Re FI costs...

I've run FI'd 5's for around 10 yrs.

The only extra costs that I can remember are extra fuel and an uprated clutch.

I have upgraded brakes and pads etc but you don't have to.

So you don't reckon they get through consumables any quicker than a n/a car?

(Not questioning it, just curious - I would quite like a few more bhp if I went back, but paranoid I'm going to be changing the oil every 5 minutes or something )

Interesting you mentioned increased fuel costs. A couple of people actually suggested their cars were more efficient after switching to forced induction.

[OnlyMX5ives]

I put decent oil in regardless and change it yearly.

What other consumables are you thinking of ?

As I've said previously I use all the power I have available hence the more powerful car the more fuel I use. Some guys tune their cars to run lean on a run but I try to avoid 'runs' I choose A and B roads hence it wouldn't be of any real benefit to me.

Pre FI I got around 27mpg after 20 - 25 depending on car and useage (but I am at the extreme end of fuel consumption.)

[Chris71]

OnlyMX5ives said:

I put decent oil in regardless and change it yearly.

What other consumables are you thinking of ?

As I've said previously I use all the power I have available hence the more powerful car the more fuel I use. Some guys tune their cars to run lean on a run but I try to avoid 'runs' I choose A and B roads hence it wouldn't be of any real benefit to me.

Pre FI I got around 27mpg after 20 - 25 depending on car and useage (but I am at the extreme end of fuel consumption.)

Principally oil, filters etc. I was just thinking that increased cylinder pressures, greater temperatures, more torque and so on might cause things to wear a bit quicker really.

If it's something for nothing you wonder why more people don't supercharge them to a mild degree.

Fuel consumption-wise I always seemed to get better results than most when I had mine - I don't know if the lighter flywheel etc. on the RS helped but driven enthusiastically when the conditions allowed it still returned comfortably over 30mpg on a semi-rural commute. The thing is I have a hellish urban commute now. The solution: Buy a bicycle and use that in the summer months.

[maz8062]

Chris71 said:

OnlyMX5ives said:

I put decent oil in regardless and change it yearly.

What other consumables are you thinking of ?

As I've said previously I use all the power I have available hence the more powerful car the more fuel I use. Some guys tune their cars to run lean on a run but I try to avoid 'runs' I choose A and B roads hence it wouldn't be of any real benefit to me.

Pre FI I got around 27mpg after 20 - 25 depending on car and useage (but I am at the extreme end of fuel consumption.)

If it's something for nothing you wonder why more people don't supercharge them to a mild degree.

Cost

[OnlyMX5ives]

Exactly.

Used SC's average £1000 plus fitting, plus timing / fuelling controls.

Turbos can be less for the basic set ups (Greddy etc)

Plus insurance increases can be a problem for under 25's.

[vx220]

on the insurance front, are there any FI-friendly companies?

i'm nearly 40

[Munter]

vx220 said:

on the insurance front, are there any FI-friendly companies?

i'm nearly 40

AON should cover you if you are having trouble getting cover. They do (or at least used to), the owners club insurance scheme. Lots of FI cars in there.

Who have you tried?

[OnlyMX5ives]

The last guy I fitted an SC kit for was around 55 and his insurance went up £30 !

[maz8062]

vx220 said:

on the insurance front, are there any FI-friendly companies?

i'm nearly 40

My turbo'd 5 costs me £225 pa with AON and that's in London. Their threshold is 200bhp, so more than this would probably cost more.

[Chris71]

vx220 said:

on the insurance front, are there any FI-friendly companies?

i'm nearly 40

You could try Hagerty. They are unbelievably cheap for classic stuff and very open to minor mods, but not sure what their position is on forced induction.

[skinny]

flux

[hogfisch]

Blatant plug aside, there is always my friend's MX5 / Eunos V-Spec Supercharged to consider:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&am...

[tybo]

hogfisch said:

Blatant plug aside, there is always my friend's MX5 / Eunos V-Spec Supercharged to consider:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&am...

That's a very good ad, and seems a good car...

But, come on...800kg...that'some serious weight saving