Fed Up - Considering gettin rid
Discussion
After the fourth time this year I have had new battery, fan belt tightened, four weeks ago garage checked everything, current ok through the car.
this morning after four solid weeks of running the car, no power to ignition or lights, just slight clicking sound. got green flag out to start the new westco battery, current ok no probs, fan belt tight enough, et etc. Nipped to my garage, they said it could be anything with it being electrical fault. I am at a loss what to do, this has happened so many times since dec I am now considering selling my 'S' Ltd.
I have spent an awful lot over £2k on it, new roof, wheels etc and this electrical fault is making me so stressed out that every time it breaks down I cry. I need my car to see my daughter and get to work and as I live alone I really need some professional advice about it from an auto electrician. I don't want to pay over the odds to get the fault found as I am on low income and I think selling it is the only option.
This on top of existing problems I have is making me very unhappy.
Can anyone please refer me to someone who knows electrical faults?
this morning after four solid weeks of running the car, no power to ignition or lights, just slight clicking sound. got green flag out to start the new westco battery, current ok no probs, fan belt tight enough, et etc. Nipped to my garage, they said it could be anything with it being electrical fault. I am at a loss what to do, this has happened so many times since dec I am now considering selling my 'S' Ltd.
I have spent an awful lot over £2k on it, new roof, wheels etc and this electrical fault is making me so stressed out that every time it breaks down I cry. I need my car to see my daughter and get to work and as I live alone I really need some professional advice about it from an auto electrician. I don't want to pay over the odds to get the fault found as I am on low income and I think selling it is the only option.
This on top of existing problems I have is making me very unhappy.
Can anyone please refer me to someone who knows electrical faults?
Could be the alternater. Some alternaters switch off when the battery is fully charged. It only has to switch off a bit to early and bit by bit you lose charge but the alternater looks ok when tested. Please have it checked first dont just change it (unless you can get one free) on this advise.
Mk1 mx5 is to old to have a smart charge ,
have they checked main ignition relay to see if thats sticking ? #Could it be a fualty switch on the back of the ignition barrel ?
idealy you need to have the fault happen again and attack the thing with a multimete and find where the fault is .
Or you could swap it for me green one
have they checked main ignition relay to see if thats sticking ? #Could it be a fualty switch on the back of the ignition barrel ?
idealy you need to have the fault happen again and attack the thing with a multimete and find where the fault is .
Or you could swap it for me green one
I've no idea about a permanent solution but coming from a kit-car background something I had on it was an ignition cutout / battery isolator, and also quick release battery clamps that can be removed by hand in a couple of seconds.
Perhaps you could quickly fit something like this so the battery doesn't discharge every night, as a temporary solution while you get it sorted.
Perhaps you could quickly fit something like this so the battery doesn't discharge every night, as a temporary solution while you get it sorted.
Just found another fault, its been fine since started today by green flag, but today twice when I turned engine off the radiator fan started running for longer than five minutes so have disconnected the plug to it and its now stopped. I reckon it could be this. No the alternator has been checked and its okay. Its going in garage tomorrow.
lets hope it starts tomorrow again. yes dennis the menace I will have yours !
lets hope it starts tomorrow again. yes dennis the menace I will have yours !
What fault codes? My car has no computer its 1993 K reg.
The fan only switches on when I turn the car off and I only noticed this today.
the car had only been running on the road for ten minutes from radcliffe to bury.
a year ago I had a temp sensor fitted on the exhaust, its not that is it cause to be honest I have no idea where to look.
Where should I look? Is it accessible to me on top of the engine, cause if its underneath I have no chance of sorting it myself. I need to know where to look, my manual does not tell me really and need to know what part to get to replace and where from with cash as I cannot purchase online with my card at moment as its blocked.
The fan only switches on when I turn the car off and I only noticed this today.
the car had only been running on the road for ten minutes from radcliffe to bury.
a year ago I had a temp sensor fitted on the exhaust, its not that is it cause to be honest I have no idea where to look.
Where should I look? Is it accessible to me on top of the engine, cause if its underneath I have no chance of sorting it myself. I need to know where to look, my manual does not tell me really and need to know what part to get to replace and where from with cash as I cannot purchase online with my card at moment as its blocked.
If you look on the passenger side of your engine bay by the top of teh damper next to your airfilter you will see a little black box with diagnostics written on it .
there is this about it on the oc site
http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/forum/forums/t/204.aspx
here is a book about the diagnostics on the 5 , plus you get the led and bit of wire to check the codes
http://www.mx5parts.co.uk/product_info.php/product...
found this on the oc as well
The early 1.6 models have 3 sensors related to the cooling system
1. On top of the thermostat is a thermoswitch, used to turn on the cooling fan when the coolant temp is high enough.
2. A sensor with a single wire, on the rear of the engine, exhaust side, this is used for the temp gauge.
3. a 2 wire sensor on the rear of the engine, inlet side, this is used by the ECU to control the fuelling variations due to coolant temp, i.e more fuel when the engine is cold.
Later models have only two sensor, with the ECU controlling the coolant fan (no switch on top of t'stat)
Pic of teh sensors at the rear of the engine (this is where they are on the 1.8)
which fan is it that stays running as well , standing facing teh front of the car is it the left hand one (air con fan) or the right which is the cooling fan ?
there is this about it on the oc site
http://www.mx5oc.co.uk/forum/forums/t/204.aspx
here is a book about the diagnostics on the 5 , plus you get the led and bit of wire to check the codes
http://www.mx5parts.co.uk/product_info.php/product...
found this on the oc as well
The early 1.6 models have 3 sensors related to the cooling system
1. On top of the thermostat is a thermoswitch, used to turn on the cooling fan when the coolant temp is high enough.
2. A sensor with a single wire, on the rear of the engine, exhaust side, this is used for the temp gauge.
3. a 2 wire sensor on the rear of the engine, inlet side, this is used by the ECU to control the fuelling variations due to coolant temp, i.e more fuel when the engine is cold.
Later models have only two sensor, with the ECU controlling the coolant fan (no switch on top of t'stat)
Pic of teh sensors at the rear of the engine (this is where they are on the 1.8)
which fan is it that stays running as well , standing facing teh front of the car is it the left hand one (air con fan) or the right which is the cooling fan ?
OK, look for the simple things first.
A lot of batteries are sold and come back after a short time with an unhappy customer blaming the battery.
Every battery we sell has the terminals sanded before leaving the premises, we have the lowest return rate in Europe as a result.
When the terminal is typical lead colour, grey, it has oxidised and this can lead to a bad connection, OK for starting the car but not great for accepting a charge back to the battery, the result can be a flat battery in a matter of days.
Ideally the battery needs to be recharged properly, if it has been charged on the car with the terminals connected you may not have charged it enough, this will result in you being able to start the car and restart later when all is warm but the problem may come back the next day. Disconnect the battery, sand the terminals and charge properly.
One thing a lot of kit car owners encounter is bad earths causing all sorts of weird problems including a flat battery, check yours, clean it, sand it, reconnect and cover with some grease AFTERWARDS.
Sometimes a bad connection on the positive side of the starter motor will give the impression of a flat battery and it will help to flatten the battery, undo it, clean it, sand it and reconnect.
Both batteries on the two MX5s we purchased were short of electrolyte and under performing, both have been topped up and charged, terminals sanded, no problems so far.
Hope this helps, some handy tips if you have not tried already.
Even if it is the fan switch or sensor.
A lot of batteries are sold and come back after a short time with an unhappy customer blaming the battery.
Every battery we sell has the terminals sanded before leaving the premises, we have the lowest return rate in Europe as a result.
When the terminal is typical lead colour, grey, it has oxidised and this can lead to a bad connection, OK for starting the car but not great for accepting a charge back to the battery, the result can be a flat battery in a matter of days.
Ideally the battery needs to be recharged properly, if it has been charged on the car with the terminals connected you may not have charged it enough, this will result in you being able to start the car and restart later when all is warm but the problem may come back the next day. Disconnect the battery, sand the terminals and charge properly.
One thing a lot of kit car owners encounter is bad earths causing all sorts of weird problems including a flat battery, check yours, clean it, sand it, reconnect and cover with some grease AFTERWARDS.
Sometimes a bad connection on the positive side of the starter motor will give the impression of a flat battery and it will help to flatten the battery, undo it, clean it, sand it and reconnect.
Both batteries on the two MX5s we purchased were short of electrolyte and under performing, both have been topped up and charged, terminals sanded, no problems so far.
Hope this helps, some handy tips if you have not tried already.
Even if it is the fan switch or sensor.
Edited by freerange7 on Friday 17th April 22:10
freerange7 said:
OK, look for the simple things first.
A lot of batteries are sold and come back after a short time with an unhappy customer blaming the battery.
Every battery we sell has the terminals sanded before leaving the premises, we have the lowest return rate in Europe as a result.
When the terminal is typical lead colour, grey, it has oxidised and this can lead to a bad connection, OK for starting the car but not great for accepting a charge back to the battery, the result can be a flat battery in a matter of days.
Ideally the battery needs to be recharged properly, if it has been charged on the car with the terminals connected you may not have charged it enough, this will result in you being able to start the car and restart later when all is warm but the problem may come back the next day. Disconnect the battery, sand the terminals and charge properly.
One thing a lot of kit car owners encounter is bad earths causing all sorts of weird problems including a flat battery, check yours, clean it, sand it, reconnect and cover with some grease AFTERWARDS.
Sometimes a bad connection on the positive side of the starter motor will give the impression of a flat battery and it will help to flatten the battery, undo it, clean it, sand it and reconnect.
Both batteries on the two MX5s we purchased were short of electrolyte and under performing, both have been topped up and charged, terminals sanded, no problems so far.
Hope this helps, some handy tips if you have not tried already.
thanks but the battery is a westco and is brand new, terminals have new clamps and are greased as I did that myself. The terminals were checked to be ok many times. I have asked many people to check the terminals and they said were ok. they do not look corroded or fuzzed they are totally covered in grease.A lot of batteries are sold and come back after a short time with an unhappy customer blaming the battery.
Every battery we sell has the terminals sanded before leaving the premises, we have the lowest return rate in Europe as a result.
When the terminal is typical lead colour, grey, it has oxidised and this can lead to a bad connection, OK for starting the car but not great for accepting a charge back to the battery, the result can be a flat battery in a matter of days.
Ideally the battery needs to be recharged properly, if it has been charged on the car with the terminals connected you may not have charged it enough, this will result in you being able to start the car and restart later when all is warm but the problem may come back the next day. Disconnect the battery, sand the terminals and charge properly.
One thing a lot of kit car owners encounter is bad earths causing all sorts of weird problems including a flat battery, check yours, clean it, sand it, reconnect and cover with some grease AFTERWARDS.
Sometimes a bad connection on the positive side of the starter motor will give the impression of a flat battery and it will help to flatten the battery, undo it, clean it, sand it and reconnect.
Both batteries on the two MX5s we purchased were short of electrolyte and under performing, both have been topped up and charged, terminals sanded, no problems so far.
Hope this helps, some handy tips if you have not tried already.
To check for Dark current (ie a source draining the battery follow this...
Check for current drains on the battery in excess of 50 milliamps with all the electrical accessories off and the vehicle at rest. Current drains can be tested with the following procedure.
WARNING: DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS TEST ON A LEAD-ACID BATTERY THAT HAS RECENTLY BEEN RECHARGED. EXPLOSIVE GASES CAN CAUSE PERSONAL INJURY.
CAUTION: To prevent damage to the meter, do not crank the engine or operate accessories that draw more than 1O A.
NOTE:
Many computers draw 10 mA or more continuously.
Use an in-line ammeter between the battery positive or negative post and its respective cable.
1. Turn the switch to mA/A dc.
2. Disconnect the battery terminal and touch the probes.
3. Isolate the circuit causing the current drain by pulling out one fuse after another from the fuse junction panel while reading the display. The current reading will drop when the fuse on the bad circuit is pulled.
4. Reinstall the fuse and test the components (including connectors) of that circuit to find the defective component(s). Test Conclusion The current reading (current drain) should be less than 0.05 amp. If current drain exceeds 0.05 amp, a constant current drain is present. (Underhood, glove compartment and luggage compartment lamps that do not shut off properly are all possible sources of current drain.)
Check for current drains on the battery in excess of 50 milliamps with all the electrical accessories off and the vehicle at rest. Current drains can be tested with the following procedure.
WARNING: DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS TEST ON A LEAD-ACID BATTERY THAT HAS RECENTLY BEEN RECHARGED. EXPLOSIVE GASES CAN CAUSE PERSONAL INJURY.
CAUTION: To prevent damage to the meter, do not crank the engine or operate accessories that draw more than 1O A.
NOTE:
Many computers draw 10 mA or more continuously.
Use an in-line ammeter between the battery positive or negative post and its respective cable.
1. Turn the switch to mA/A dc.
2. Disconnect the battery terminal and touch the probes.
3. Isolate the circuit causing the current drain by pulling out one fuse after another from the fuse junction panel while reading the display. The current reading will drop when the fuse on the bad circuit is pulled.
4. Reinstall the fuse and test the components (including connectors) of that circuit to find the defective component(s). Test Conclusion The current reading (current drain) should be less than 0.05 amp. If current drain exceeds 0.05 amp, a constant current drain is present. (Underhood, glove compartment and luggage compartment lamps that do not shut off properly are all possible sources of current drain.)
- If the drain is not caused by a vehicle lamp, remove the fuses from the interior fuse junction panel one at a time, until the cause of the drain is located.
- If the drain is still undetermined, remove the fuses one at a time at the power distribution box to find the problem circuit.
trace1967 said:
its the right hand one, the other is disconnected permanently because i have no air conditioning in the car, the whole system was removed before I bought it. I will print this off tomorrow and take it to the garage.
Righto , i think there is a relay for the cooling fan so i would get that checked as well , it could be sticking there fore holding it on and running the fan untill it either unsticks or your battery is flat . another thing to do is get a optimate trickle charger for the westco , as they are a matt type battery they have to be slow charged (think of it as an onion , its built up in layers)
DennisTheMenace said:
trace1967 said:
its the right hand one, the other is disconnected permanently because i have no air conditioning in the car, the whole system was removed before I bought it. I will print this off tomorrow and take it to the garage.
Righto , i think there is a relay for the cooling fan so i would get that checked as well , it could be sticking there fore holding it on and running the fan untill it either unsticks or your battery is flat . another thing to do is get a optimate trickle charger for the westco , as they are a matt type battery they have to be slow charged (think of it as an onion , its built up in layers)
Edited by trace1967 on Friday 17th April 22:30
[thanks but the battery is a westco and is brand new, terminals have new clamps and are greased as I did that myself. The terminals were checked to be ok many times. I have asked many people to check the terminals and they said were ok. they do not look corroded or fuzzed they are totally covered in grease.]
Please do not assume that as the battery is new that is not the problem, as I suggested it maybe worth sanding for a decent connection anyway as it sounds like you may be disconnecting it again anyway to do the test suggested.
You say that they are well greased, hopefully this has been done after the terminals are connected as grease can insulate causing a bad connection.
Ask an electrician about a dry joint when soldering, if the solder is moved when cooling it can become a poor conductor even though it is a strong joint, the reason why circuit boards are machine made these days.
Some will advise that your battery terminals have a good connection assuming because it is on tight, this does not always make a decent electrical connection.
Only suggestions, good luck
Please do not assume that as the battery is new that is not the problem, as I suggested it maybe worth sanding for a decent connection anyway as it sounds like you may be disconnecting it again anyway to do the test suggested.
You say that they are well greased, hopefully this has been done after the terminals are connected as grease can insulate causing a bad connection.
Ask an electrician about a dry joint when soldering, if the solder is moved when cooling it can become a poor conductor even though it is a strong joint, the reason why circuit boards are machine made these days.
Some will advise that your battery terminals have a good connection assuming because it is on tight, this does not always make a decent electrical connection.
Only suggestions, good luck
Optimates are around the £40 mark , one here
http://www.gear4bikes.com/acatalog/Battery_Charger...
but you shouldnt be needing it , i would do the dark current test and see how much is being drawn off the battery , then looking at anything thats been fitted aftermarket , something aint right . has it only just started doing this or has it done it ever since you bought the car ?
it will get sorted and summer is coming so keep smiling
http://www.gear4bikes.com/acatalog/Battery_Charger...
but you shouldnt be needing it , i would do the dark current test and see how much is being drawn off the battery , then looking at anything thats been fitted aftermarket , something aint right . has it only just started doing this or has it done it ever since you bought the car ?
it will get sorted and summer is coming so keep smiling
freerange7 said:
[thanks but the battery is a westco and is brand new, terminals have new clamps and are greased as I did that myself. The terminals were checked to be ok many times. I have asked many people to check the terminals and they said were ok. they do not look corroded or fuzzed they are totally covered in grease.]
Please do not assume that as the battery is new that is not the problem, as I suggested it maybe worth sanding for a decent connection anyway as it sounds like you may be disconnecting it again anyway to do the test suggested.
You say that they are well greased, hopefully this has been done after the terminals are connected as grease can insulate causing a bad connection.
Ask an electrician about a dry joint when soldering, if the solder is moved when cooling it can become a poor conductor even though it is a strong joint, the reason why circuit boards are machine made these days.
Some will advise that your battery terminals have a good connection assuming because it is on tight, this does not always make a decent electrical connection.
Only suggestions, good luck
yes they were greased after the batter fitted, I will ask the garage to resand them and fit them again. Can I get plastic caps to cover them as I feel because they are bare they invite problems.Please do not assume that as the battery is new that is not the problem, as I suggested it maybe worth sanding for a decent connection anyway as it sounds like you may be disconnecting it again anyway to do the test suggested.
You say that they are well greased, hopefully this has been done after the terminals are connected as grease can insulate causing a bad connection.
Ask an electrician about a dry joint when soldering, if the solder is moved when cooling it can become a poor conductor even though it is a strong joint, the reason why circuit boards are machine made these days.
Some will advise that your battery terminals have a good connection assuming because it is on tight, this does not always make a decent electrical connection.
Only suggestions, good luck
It could be something and nothing. One of my old ones regularly refused to start, even with a new Westco battery. Eventually I spotted that an air con relay under the bonnet had become unclipped and water had got into it. I think a new one was £10 or so and everything was back to normal after that.
DennisTheMenace said:
Optimates are around the £40 mark , one here
http://www.gear4bikes.com/acatalog/Battery_Charger...
but you shouldnt be needing it , i would do the dark current test and see how much is being drawn off the battery , then looking at anything thats been fitted aftermarket , something aint right . has it only just started doing this or has it done it ever since you bought the car ?
it will get sorted and summer is coming so keep smiling
yes you're right I do not want to spend money if the garage really checked my car out properly I am sure they would find the fault. The owner has an mx5 so he should know. I bought the car May 2007 and its only started doing this in december. Before that the fan belt was fitted in sept 08 and its needed tightening twice since. Nothing electrical been fitted since I bought it. Only new bulbs etc and general maintenance. I have a mini steering wheel and the horn on that is playing up too. Not connecting properly. http://www.gear4bikes.com/acatalog/Battery_Charger...
but you shouldnt be needing it , i would do the dark current test and see how much is being drawn off the battery , then looking at anything thats been fitted aftermarket , something aint right . has it only just started doing this or has it done it ever since you bought the car ?
it will get sorted and summer is coming so keep smiling
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