F150 v8 vs v6 + import
Discussion
Hi guys,
I am new to this part of PH, although not new to PH.
I am looking to buy / import a 2016 F150 Lariat. I drove a 3.5 v6, and it felt very nippy, but sounds like a four pot. I think (having read hundreds of threads on yank forums about superiority of the v6) I have decided it will be 5.0 v8, mostly for the sound.
Now, does it make any sense to buy direct from the dealer there? Can I do it "over the phone", or would I have to go there? The alternative is to use a reputable US car supplier near London, and get them to do it for me.
I do not want to open a can of worms by asking which engine to choose, so I will refrain from doing that
As for the purchase, I am very specific on the spec I want, so it would have to be made to order. Am I right in thinking that when buying through Canada new, and exporting you would pay the OTR cost - 5% VAT?
Thank you
Bart
I am new to this part of PH, although not new to PH.
I am looking to buy / import a 2016 F150 Lariat. I drove a 3.5 v6, and it felt very nippy, but sounds like a four pot. I think (having read hundreds of threads on yank forums about superiority of the v6) I have decided it will be 5.0 v8, mostly for the sound.
Now, does it make any sense to buy direct from the dealer there? Can I do it "over the phone", or would I have to go there? The alternative is to use a reputable US car supplier near London, and get them to do it for me.
I do not want to open a can of worms by asking which engine to choose, so I will refrain from doing that
As for the purchase, I am very specific on the spec I want, so it would have to be made to order. Am I right in thinking that when buying through Canada new, and exporting you would pay the OTR cost - 5% VAT?
Thank you
Bart
Firstly you'll need to find a dealer prepared to sell you the truck, it's against their franchise agreement to sell for export.
You'll then need to find someone who knows the ins and outs of importing the truck. Get it wrong and it won't comply with IVA regs and you'll also end up paying 22% import duty as it's a commercial vehicle.
You'll then need to find someone who knows the ins and outs of importing the truck. Get it wrong and it won't comply with IVA regs and you'll also end up paying 22% import duty as it's a commercial vehicle.
Thanks chaps.
Sounds like a task. When it comes to IVA prep, I imagine one would have to prove it is a car rather than a truck to qualify foe the lower duty.
Would you happen to know if there is a plce on the net to find all of the info?
So far I got a shipping quote that seemed to be on a high side at £5000. It did, however include the full registration process, including IVA test + prep, first reg fee, all admin, road tax, marine insurance, etc.
I wonder, though, how to ensure you do the right amount, and type of conversion.
Sounds like a task. When it comes to IVA prep, I imagine one would have to prove it is a car rather than a truck to qualify foe the lower duty.
Would you happen to know if there is a plce on the net to find all of the info?
So far I got a shipping quote that seemed to be on a high side at £5000. It did, however include the full registration process, including IVA test + prep, first reg fee, all admin, road tax, marine insurance, etc.
I wonder, though, how to ensure you do the right amount, and type of conversion.
Seems a little steep dependant on how they do the light conversion. Modern systems with LED lights can be a nightmare.
As it's an all in quote I'm guessing it's Ship My Car. Only heard good things about them.
ETA: To get the cheaper import duty it needs to be IVA tested as M1, which is passenger car. There is criteria over bed length for that but as most people bring in crew/supercrew/quad cabs that's not a problem. It does mean it's a car though as far as company car tax and BIK is concerned and can't be used for any kind of work/hire and reward purposes.
As it's an all in quote I'm guessing it's Ship My Car. Only heard good things about them.
ETA: To get the cheaper import duty it needs to be IVA tested as M1, which is passenger car. There is criteria over bed length for that but as most people bring in crew/supercrew/quad cabs that's not a problem. It does mean it's a car though as far as company car tax and BIK is concerned and can't be used for any kind of work/hire and reward purposes.
Edited by Roo on Saturday 26th December 22:39
Hey Roo,
It was indeed shipmycar.
As for the rules, I did read the duty rules, and it seems the SuperCrew fits nearly in. The length of the floor of the box must not exceed 50% of the wheelbase. Ok. The wheelbase is 157inches, but the box is 78.9inch. So it exceeds the limit by 0.4inch. Would that matter? Also, the ruling says about the personal import, and I can openly confirm the vehicle is being imported under the company VAT, and for a sole company use. Would that exclude the availability of the lower duty?
As for the light conversions, etc, I could probably manage that myself. It seems it is only the headlights, and tails that need doing + rear fog.
Yet, with the shipping quote so high, it nearly takes me back to square one making the whole cost of the thing indifferent to what I was quoted by a party selling yanks for a living.
It was indeed shipmycar.
As for the rules, I did read the duty rules, and it seems the SuperCrew fits nearly in. The length of the floor of the box must not exceed 50% of the wheelbase. Ok. The wheelbase is 157inches, but the box is 78.9inch. So it exceeds the limit by 0.4inch. Would that matter? Also, the ruling says about the personal import, and I can openly confirm the vehicle is being imported under the company VAT, and for a sole company use. Would that exclude the availability of the lower duty?
As for the light conversions, etc, I could probably manage that myself. It seems it is only the headlights, and tails that need doing + rear fog.
Yet, with the shipping quote so high, it nearly takes me back to square one making the whole cost of the thing indifferent to what I was quoted by a party selling yanks for a living.
Bed length can't exceed 50% of the overall length of the vehicle.
Unless you're au fait with CanBUS electrics don't even attempt the light conversion yourself.
You need to pick the turn signal pulse from the stop lights to create separate rear indicators. Rear fog with illuminated switch that only comes on under certain 'lights on' conditions, side repeaters and white front sidelights.
Unless you're au fait with CanBUS electrics don't even attempt the light conversion yourself.
You need to pick the turn signal pulse from the stop lights to create separate rear indicators. Rear fog with illuminated switch that only comes on under certain 'lights on' conditions, side repeaters and white front sidelights.
Hey Roo,
I read it can't exceed 50% of the wheelbase. Still, even if it is as you are saying, would it matter that the vehicle is being registered for the company under my VAT?
As foe the electrics, I don't speak CanBus, so might have to leave it professionals. Last thing I want is for the dash to light up like a Xmas tree.
I read it can't exceed 50% of the wheelbase. Still, even if it is as you are saying, would it matter that the vehicle is being registered for the company under my VAT?
As foe the electrics, I don't speak CanBus, so might have to leave it professionals. Last thing I want is for the dash to light up like a Xmas tree.
BartW said:
Hey Roo,
I read it can't exceed 50% of the wheelbase. Still, even if it is as you are saying, would it matter that the vehicle is being registered for the company under my VAT?
As foe the electrics, I don't speak CanBus, so might have to leave it professionals. Last thing I want is for the dash to light up like a Xmas tree.
Talk to Wayne at Europa SVT https://www.europasvt.com/ and https://www.europasvt.com/FORD_F_SERIES__20.htmlI read it can't exceed 50% of the wheelbase. Still, even if it is as you are saying, would it matter that the vehicle is being registered for the company under my VAT?
As foe the electrics, I don't speak CanBus, so might have to leave it professionals. Last thing I want is for the dash to light up like a Xmas tree.
He brought in a new Mustang to order for my business partner a few years ago; the process was smoother than ordering a UK car through a UK dealer. He also has plenty of experience bringing in trucks built to order.
Europa SVT are very good.
If you want it to be classified as a VAT qualifying commercial vehicle it needs to be N1 tested. Europa can clarify the regs on that but to memory if it's got more than three seats it needs a one tonne payload, which a F150 won't have as it's a 1/2 tonne truck.
They used to do my one tonne payload upgrades on light duty trucks but don't know if they've tested and approved the latest ones.
If you want it to be classified as a VAT qualifying commercial vehicle it needs to be N1 tested. Europa can clarify the regs on that but to memory if it's got more than three seats it needs a one tonne payload, which a F150 won't have as it's a 1/2 tonne truck.
They used to do my one tonne payload upgrades on light duty trucks but don't know if they've tested and approved the latest ones.
I just brought in my 2500 2015 Ram as a personal import. It was free of all that taxman BS as it was my own vehicle Stateside when we lived there. However I still had to get it IVA'd etc etc obviously.
My thoughts on it are as follows.........
Don't attempt the conversion yourself unless you are a highly skilled auto electrician, you can do serious damage to the vehicle body modules if you get it wrong. Splitting the turn/brake is gonna be a proper pain but easy for those that know how. Don't underestimate the value of a company that does this day in day out and presents vehicles to that test station all the time! As a random bloke turning up you really are gonna struggle I reckon.
Not all conversion specialists are familiar with the workaround for registration as a private car. Several companies I approached were unable to offer this service. My understanding is the load area cannot exceed 40% of the total length of the vehicle? Also must have 5 seats min.........It deffo is allowed as mine is sat outside now as a private car despite being 4500KG unladen.
This allows the vehicle to then retain it's design tow capacity (7772KG on my Ram) which usually means most people will then be limited by license rather than vehicle. I'm not 100% but I believe if registered as a commercial it has to be downplated and limits towing capacity to gross vehicle weight of 7500KG? Maybe not as important on the light duty F150 but on the big trucks becomes a bit counter productive as you only have 3000KG left!
I am not sure on the tax implications as a company, I know there are benefits as a LCV etc
I think if you do not benefit from a tax free import (as I was lucky enough to) then doing this yourself is just not worth it. Let somebody else do the legwork and take the risk why not? A friend of mine brought a car back and sadly it was damaged in transit. He had booked everything a la carte and guess what - nobody was willing to put their hands up and compensate, well not initially anyway! He had weeks of arguing before getting the result he wanted. I did the same and got lucky but if I did it again (and I might) then I would be happy to pay the small premium to just hassle free collect from a UK supplier.
(ignore all this if bringing in an older than 10 year car/truck as then I'd deffo do it all myself!)
I'd be happy to pass on who did my IVA work if you would like? I was extremely happy with the service they provided.
As for the other bit of the question - the V8 will be a much nicer truck but those that actually work their trucks in the states are all buying the V6 in my experience. Whatever you do - don't drive the HD diesel truck before ordering as 800 lbs ft of torque is completely infectious and the man maths does actually work!! Honest!!
My thoughts on it are as follows.........
Don't attempt the conversion yourself unless you are a highly skilled auto electrician, you can do serious damage to the vehicle body modules if you get it wrong. Splitting the turn/brake is gonna be a proper pain but easy for those that know how. Don't underestimate the value of a company that does this day in day out and presents vehicles to that test station all the time! As a random bloke turning up you really are gonna struggle I reckon.
Not all conversion specialists are familiar with the workaround for registration as a private car. Several companies I approached were unable to offer this service. My understanding is the load area cannot exceed 40% of the total length of the vehicle? Also must have 5 seats min.........It deffo is allowed as mine is sat outside now as a private car despite being 4500KG unladen.
This allows the vehicle to then retain it's design tow capacity (7772KG on my Ram) which usually means most people will then be limited by license rather than vehicle. I'm not 100% but I believe if registered as a commercial it has to be downplated and limits towing capacity to gross vehicle weight of 7500KG? Maybe not as important on the light duty F150 but on the big trucks becomes a bit counter productive as you only have 3000KG left!
I am not sure on the tax implications as a company, I know there are benefits as a LCV etc
I think if you do not benefit from a tax free import (as I was lucky enough to) then doing this yourself is just not worth it. Let somebody else do the legwork and take the risk why not? A friend of mine brought a car back and sadly it was damaged in transit. He had booked everything a la carte and guess what - nobody was willing to put their hands up and compensate, well not initially anyway! He had weeks of arguing before getting the result he wanted. I did the same and got lucky but if I did it again (and I might
) then I would be happy to pay the small premium to just hassle free collect from a UK supplier.(ignore all this if bringing in an older than 10 year car/truck as then I'd deffo do it all myself!)
I'd be happy to pass on who did my IVA work if you would like? I was extremely happy with the service they provided.
As for the other bit of the question - the V8 will be a much nicer truck but those that actually work their trucks in the states are all buying the V6 in my experience. Whatever you do - don't drive the HD diesel truck before ordering as 800 lbs ft of torque is completely infectious and the man maths does actually work!! Honest!!
If the GVW is below 3500kg it can be registered as a class N1. Pretty pointless on a quad cab though as it can't be classed as a commercial vehicle as far as company car tax and VAT are concerned as it has more than three seats.
If the GVW is between 3500kg and 6500kg it has to be registered class M1 as a private car. This cannot be used for any form of hire or reward and it's BIK is worked out on its total value, not as if it's a commercial vehicle.
In ALL cases your towing capacity, if it's listed on the V5c (many/most aren't), is limited to 3500kg as that is the legal limit in the UK.
If its towing capacity isn't listed on the V5c you can't legally tow anything.
If the GVW is between 3500kg and 6500kg it has to be registered class M1 as a private car. This cannot be used for any form of hire or reward and it's BIK is worked out on its total value, not as if it's a commercial vehicle.
In ALL cases your towing capacity, if it's listed on the V5c (many/most aren't), is limited to 3500kg as that is the legal limit in the UK.
If its towing capacity isn't listed on the V5c you can't legally tow anything.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
page 1 of 12 in the forward shows - "At the request of the applicant a vehicle with at least 4 seats and a load area not exceeding 40% of the length of the vehicle and a weight limit of 6500kg max mass may be classed as an M1 vehicle for the purpose of this manual"
I knew i'd read 40% somewhere! Kind of forgot about the exact details when I paid the experts to deal with this.
page 1 of 12 in the forward shows - "At the request of the applicant a vehicle with at least 4 seats and a load area not exceeding 40% of the length of the vehicle and a weight limit of 6500kg max mass may be classed as an M1 vehicle for the purpose of this manual"
I knew i'd read 40% somewhere! Kind of forgot about the exact details when I paid the experts to deal with this.
The EcoBoost is in another league to the V8 in the current F150s.
I'm on my second 3.5 EB powered F150 now and patiently waiting for the new Raptor, and the chances of me going back to a V8 in an F150 are absolutely zero. It flies for a standard common-or-garden truck, and with some work they're a laugh riot.
Sound is so-so, from the inside they're 'augmented' I believe, but they have a nice grumble however it's achieved. Mine sounds pretty fruity on the outside, certainly not like a 4-cylinder! It has an aftermarket exhaust, however.
Power delivery is nice, it's not too dissimilar to the power delivery in diesel HD trucks when you're just plodding along at lower RPMs, but when you decide to wring it's neck a little bit it revs nicely for a turbocharged motor.
The V8 just feels a bit flat in comparison, even my wife remarked it felt like an older truck when we test drove them back to back.
I'm on my second 3.5 EB powered F150 now and patiently waiting for the new Raptor, and the chances of me going back to a V8 in an F150 are absolutely zero. It flies for a standard common-or-garden truck, and with some work they're a laugh riot.
Sound is so-so, from the inside they're 'augmented' I believe, but they have a nice grumble however it's achieved. Mine sounds pretty fruity on the outside, certainly not like a 4-cylinder! It has an aftermarket exhaust, however.
Power delivery is nice, it's not too dissimilar to the power delivery in diesel HD trucks when you're just plodding along at lower RPMs, but when you decide to wring it's neck a little bit it revs nicely for a turbocharged motor.
The V8 just feels a bit flat in comparison, even my wife remarked it felt like an older truck when we test drove them back to back.
Thanks for the replies chaps.
So, I actually decided to pay a dealer to take the hassle off my shoulders. I could see things likely going wrong, things getting damaged, etc and with a daily job that is demanding of my time they way it is, I did not allow any room for error, or hickups.
Perhaps I should not be advertising the company, so I will just mention it is a dealership located in Waltham Abbey. From what I could tell so far, pleasant person to deal with, and good knowledege, and transparency. I was not even going to buy one for another year, as I have still got leasing running on the current Hilux Invincible. Only went to see what they are like, and all that... I drove the v6, and... Yes, I was surprised how well it went, I mean wow, my expectations where totally different. However, on the outside it sounded, ekhm, it did not sound at all. I watched reviews, and all, and even with likes of Borla exhaust on it, it sounded like an angry Focus ST. I know the v8 is behind technology-wise. But then, having always wanted the Raptor V8, it just had to be the v8. Especially that all my cars have been a v8 for the last 8 years.
Anyway, I ordered a 5.0v8 Lariat SuperCrew with 6.5ft bed. Added a couple of minor options like Led spot lights, spray in bed liner, and blind spot alert. Oh, I went for the 4x2. I realise some might say it will be unpopular second hand, and it should be a 4x4, but reality is that it will sit in Central London a lot, it will never tow, it will sometimes carry some weight, and will generally serve as my mobile office. As for the tuneability of the v8, yes I know the EB is so much better from start, but I hope the mpg should be very similar, as well as the power, too. Especially that it does not have any turbos. I will not work it, I just want the sound
And for the fast driving experience, I have got my VXR8 GTS with nearly 600bhp on tap, so I hope I should be ok.
As for the Payload, the setup I went for, gives me 2280lbs standard, which makes it qualify for the commercial use with no need to be adding the heavy duty payload package.
Once again, thanks for the valuable advice
Regards
Bart
So, I actually decided to pay a dealer to take the hassle off my shoulders. I could see things likely going wrong, things getting damaged, etc and with a daily job that is demanding of my time they way it is, I did not allow any room for error, or hickups.
Perhaps I should not be advertising the company, so I will just mention it is a dealership located in Waltham Abbey. From what I could tell so far, pleasant person to deal with, and good knowledege, and transparency. I was not even going to buy one for another year, as I have still got leasing running on the current Hilux Invincible. Only went to see what they are like, and all that... I drove the v6, and... Yes, I was surprised how well it went, I mean wow, my expectations where totally different. However, on the outside it sounded, ekhm, it did not sound at all. I watched reviews, and all, and even with likes of Borla exhaust on it, it sounded like an angry Focus ST. I know the v8 is behind technology-wise. But then, having always wanted the Raptor V8, it just had to be the v8. Especially that all my cars have been a v8 for the last 8 years.
Anyway, I ordered a 5.0v8 Lariat SuperCrew with 6.5ft bed. Added a couple of minor options like Led spot lights, spray in bed liner, and blind spot alert. Oh, I went for the 4x2. I realise some might say it will be unpopular second hand, and it should be a 4x4, but reality is that it will sit in Central London a lot, it will never tow, it will sometimes carry some weight, and will generally serve as my mobile office. As for the tuneability of the v8, yes I know the EB is so much better from start, but I hope the mpg should be very similar, as well as the power, too. Especially that it does not have any turbos. I will not work it, I just want the sound
And for the fast driving experience, I have got my VXR8 GTS with nearly 600bhp on tap, so I hope I should be ok.
As for the Payload, the setup I went for, gives me 2280lbs standard, which makes it qualify for the commercial use with no need to be adding the heavy duty payload package.
Once again, thanks for the valuable advice
Regards
Bart
Bart,
Congrats man and fwiw I think you have deffo done the right thing. The point with all of this is that there is no simple solution! The IVA process and regulations are a minefield and contradict themselves at times! The turnkey solution is a good one especially if like yourself your time is your money. Again, the 4x2 thing makes perfect sense if that's what you need/require! A lot of folks don't seem to realise everyone has different reasons for things.
I really apologise for being off topic but when I searched and researched this over a year ago I came across so much confusing info and ambiguous statements it made working out what to do nigh on impossible. I just want to clarify here that with an american pick up classified as an M1 passenger car you CAN tow up to the design limitations of the vehicle assuming you have the correct license class to do so and comply with the constructions and use regulations.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/driving-licence...
http://www.drivex.co.uk/driving-licence-info/
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/pdfs/...
I think I know who you are dealing with as I have looked through their website quite a bit, seems like a really reputable place that has a lot of turnover! Must be a good sign. Good luck dude and enjoy that F150, they are amazingly awesome trucks.
MN
Congrats man and fwiw I think you have deffo done the right thing. The point with all of this is that there is no simple solution! The IVA process and regulations are a minefield and contradict themselves at times! The turnkey solution is a good one especially if like yourself your time is your money. Again, the 4x2 thing makes perfect sense if that's what you need/require! A lot of folks don't seem to realise everyone has different reasons for things.
I really apologise for being off topic but when I searched and researched this over a year ago I came across so much confusing info and ambiguous statements it made working out what to do nigh on impossible. I just want to clarify here that with an american pick up classified as an M1 passenger car you CAN tow up to the design limitations of the vehicle assuming you have the correct license class to do so and comply with the constructions and use regulations.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/driving-licence...
http://www.drivex.co.uk/driving-licence-info/
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/pdfs/...
I think I know who you are dealing with as I have looked through their website quite a bit, seems like a really reputable place that has a lot of turnover! Must be a good sign. Good luck dude and enjoy that F150, they are amazingly awesome trucks.
MN
Thanks Mr
It took me a few sleepless nights to settle on both spec, and the route to take. I guess time was essential, so leaving room to costly mistakes would have probably proven more than the turn key solution, especially that the company was very open about the fees they attracted.
As for the towing regs, I would be very surprised if it were any different to what you posted.
As for the choice of the truck, well I spend good number of hours per day / week in the Hilux, and although it comes with a 200bhp motor, it feels really sluggish. And it's diesel
I get about 25mpg in town on that being manual and weighing pretty much the same that the F150 does.
American EPA figures suggest 15mpg town and 22mpg motorway. Bearing in mind these are US mpg figures, and apparently reflect real life economy better than uk published figures, I would be very happy (and probably lucky) if I get 18mpg town and 25mpg UK figures. I might want to put gas conversion in, but not sure if I will be able to justify it with the mileage I do.
Thanks
Bart
It took me a few sleepless nights to settle on both spec, and the route to take. I guess time was essential, so leaving room to costly mistakes would have probably proven more than the turn key solution, especially that the company was very open about the fees they attracted.
As for the towing regs, I would be very surprised if it were any different to what you posted.
As for the choice of the truck, well I spend good number of hours per day / week in the Hilux, and although it comes with a 200bhp motor, it feels really sluggish. And it's diesel
I get about 25mpg in town on that being manual and weighing pretty much the same that the F150 does. American EPA figures suggest 15mpg town and 22mpg motorway. Bearing in mind these are US mpg figures, and apparently reflect real life economy better than uk published figures, I would be very happy (and probably lucky) if I get 18mpg town and 25mpg UK figures. I might want to put gas conversion in, but not sure if I will be able to justify it with the mileage I do.
Thanks
Bart
BartW said:
Thanks for the replies chaps.
So, I actually decided to pay a dealer to take the hassle off my shoulders. I could see things likely going wrong, things getting damaged, etc and with a daily job that is demanding of my time they way it is, I did not allow any room for error, or hickups.
Perhaps I should not be advertising the company, so I will just mention it is a dealership located in Waltham Abbey. From what I could tell so far, pleasant person to deal with, and good knowledege, and transparency...
Charles brought my Raptor in a couple of years ago. Top man to deal with, and will use him again when I move this one on.So, I actually decided to pay a dealer to take the hassle off my shoulders. I could see things likely going wrong, things getting damaged, etc and with a daily job that is demanding of my time they way it is, I did not allow any room for error, or hickups.
Perhaps I should not be advertising the company, so I will just mention it is a dealership located in Waltham Abbey. From what I could tell so far, pleasant person to deal with, and good knowledege, and transparency...
AdeTuono said:
BartW said:
Thanks for the replies chaps.
So, I actually decided to pay a dealer to take the hassle off my shoulders. I could see things likely going wrong, things getting damaged, etc and with a daily job that is demanding of my time they way it is, I did not allow any room for error, or hickups.
Perhaps I should not be advertising the company, so I will just mention it is a dealership located in Waltham Abbey. From what I could tell so far, pleasant person to deal with, and good knowledege, and transparency...
Charles brought my Raptor in a couple of years ago. Top man to deal with, and will use him again when I move this one on.So, I actually decided to pay a dealer to take the hassle off my shoulders. I could see things likely going wrong, things getting damaged, etc and with a daily job that is demanding of my time they way it is, I did not allow any room for error, or hickups.
Perhaps I should not be advertising the company, so I will just mention it is a dealership located in Waltham Abbey. From what I could tell so far, pleasant person to deal with, and good knowledege, and transparency...
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