Why so high?

[ratrod 2]

Looks like the bongo drums got to you before i had a chance to yesterday,

Yes the C2 saga is over as long as the buyer doesn't go awol on me,

I had a lot of time on my hands yesterday and thought i hope the car either

falls flat on it's face or makes the reserve or more ,the first doesn't need thinking about

just bring it home and the other would be great news,

What i didn't want is a inbetween figure which is exactly what i got,

Had very little time to make my mind up as i spoke to the auction guys while the bidding

was going on, the choice was to nod it on and hope once it's being sold may cause some excitement

and the bidding continues or for the auction to call the highest on-line bidder after and see if they can extract some

more money out of him but at the same time letting him off the hook if he's got second thoughts,

Barring this in mind i've got only less than a minute more like 30 seconds to decide,

With a reserve of £48K i would get back £46,880 and having all day to ponder on it thought after all the , effort ,time and expense which would

continue on Monday to come up yet again with a truck, thought what is the real last figure i would except and came up with £45K otherwise

it's coming home.

In the heat of the moment the auction offered me a deal that if i let it go at the highest bid which was £41K at the time not only

i wouldn't have to pay them any sellers commission but they will return me £43,000 by adding a percentage of their buyers commission

which would leave them still with £3,125 out of the £5 ,125 they would have had rather than them having nothing out of a no sale

So i thought that's near enough and i can get on with my life plus there was still a chance the bidding could have gone on but didn't unlike a scruffy

Countach replica ,which with a reserve of around £20K went on to £32,062 .

Silverstone auction did the same with my mates Ferrari Boxer selling it for £10K less than the reserve but topped it up with £10K

out of their £32K buyers commission to bring it up to his reserve to his relief.

Chances are that if i was offered that figure in my driveway i wouldn't have accepted it but as i said didn't want to waste the time and energy

i had invested into it ,

Now sat here with neither car nor money and no longer in the drivers seat is the only drawback but will give them a call mid week just

to check all is well.

Edited by ratrod 2 on Monday 25th March 17:56

[ratrod 2]

roscobbc said:

Now you've parted with the Vette Jon - wanna 'indulge' yourself in a potential 'depthless' money pit? - or perhaps just a wash, new battery and fluid changes may be all thats needed?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266736157462?itmmeta=01...

Funny enough was talking to a guy yesterday at the NEC and he owned a ZR 1 one of his collection of 30 cars,

Asked him where he keeps so many he replied Norfolk.

I asked about the spares situation on the ZR1's after being told by Scott at Corvette Kingdom

that it's almost impossible to get any, he said being a engineer he makes them himself.

I've had a few C4's but not really been a lover of them but the ZR 1 is a different animal,

There was lovely silver blue one locally with a cam ,uprated lowered suspension and all but

a straight through exhaust ,Adrian Dromey bought it in the end and put it back to stock

selling all the parts separately ,

Their was 2 guys use to bring their black ZR 1's to the Guildford cruise both very highly modified,

one having the engine painted bright yellow,

You may know all 3 cars if they were members of the CCC rosco.

What a shame to let that car get into that state,

All down to price i suppose as if spares are scarce could be a expensive frustrating restoration but there again

can't be many if any at all that is affordable if you have the know how to get stuck in.

I shall watch it with interest although i do not have the talent to fix it myself so as you say a money pit but a worth while one.

Edited by ratrod 2 on Monday 25th March 18:35

[newsatten]

ratrod 2 said:

roscobbc said:

Now you've parted with the Vette Jon - wanna 'indulge' yourself in a potential 'depthless' money pit? - or perhaps just a wash, new battery and fluid changes may be all thats needed?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266736157462?itmmeta=01...

Funny enough was talking to a guy yesterday at the NEC and he owned a ZR 1 one of his collection of 30 cars,

Asked him where he keeps so many he replied Norfolk.

I asked about the spares situation on the ZR1's after being told by Scott at Corvette Kingdom

that it's almost impossible to get any, he said being a engineer he makes them himself.

I've had a few C4's but not really been a lover of them but the ZR 1 is a different animal,

There was lovely silver blue one locally with a cam ,uprated lowered suspension and all but

a straight through exhaust ,Adrian Dromey bought it in the end and put it back to stock

selling all the parts separately ,

Their was 2 guys use to bring their black ZR 1's to the Guildford cruise both very highly modified,

one having the engine painted bright yellow,

You may know all 3 cars if they were members of the CCC rosco.

What a shame to let that car get into that state,

All down to price i suppose as if spares are scarce could be a expensive frustrating restoration but there again

can't be many if any at all that is affordable if you have the know how to get stuck in.

I shall watch it with interest although i do not have the talent to fix it myself so as you say a money pit but a worth while one.



Ces’t la vie
We win some etc !!
Time to move on , could be worse son
For me to buy the last hurrah I’ve got to commit to another year at work !! FFS I’ll be almost 70 by the time i finally escape!
But I’m using work as my guiding light!
Or carrot !!
Either which way it’s all about the smile on my face when/if I open the garage door !
So time for a 57 T bird probably the most serene motor car Ford have produced!
Should have made that clearer!
The birds for you RR not me !!

No I want a proper Muscle car you still toying with selling your Vette Rosco !!!
lol
Sand it to death , bury it in Epoxy then 5 coats of Fathom Green then 5 coats of clear,
Wait a week DA sand with 2000 , wet flat with 1500 then spend two days with the mop!!

Edited by newsatten on Monday 25th March 18:55

[P5BNij]

sidewinder500 said:

Well done, Nij.
From the driving perspective it's got to be one of the best decisions to go Abarth.
What engine is it? I drove a 180 hp manual back in the day, it was one of the best experiences car wise.
They keep their value quite good, so you could face a few years fun for little outlay.

That means you are off the yank stuff, at least for a time?

Thanks . It all happened a bit quick really, I had a last minute look online before switching the PC off last night and there it was - the right car at the right price less than three miles from our front door! It's a 1.4 auto and feels a lot smoother than the 500 Twinair we're chopping in, not as quick off the mark as a normal manual would be but it has manual / flappy paddle mode which adds to the fun. As our new daily it has to do everything and neck snapping acceleration isn't top of the list. It looks and feels brand new despite being eleven years old. Did a bit of online digging when we got home this morning and it's1 of 299 worldwide and 1 of 50 in the UK. The only 'bad' bits are a few kerb marks in the front alloys which you can't see from ten feet away.

We won't be buying a modern Mustang any time soon, but it hasn't put me off looking at classic yanks... although I've been looking at Alfas, Fiats and Lancias again since coming back from the NEC show

Quick pic of the Abarth...

[P5BNij]

ratrod 2 said:

P5BNij said:

This is definitely true - I still get misty eyed over '60s and '70s stuff, constantly, although there are some '50s cars that have really grown on me recently. I was born in '65 and there were still plenty of '50s cars on the roads as I was growing up. I have no problem with resto mods either, not everything that happens to them is reversible but at least these cars are being saved.

(This morning we put a deposit down on a one owner 27k miles Abarth 595 'Anniversario', despite looking at modern Mustangs over the past couple of weeks!)

That's great news ,always fancied one myself for a runaround,

My only worry is could i cope with it on longer journeys ,

Out of three days going backwards and forwards to the NEC the M40 was closed on all three days through accidents,

Took me five hours for a two and a bit hour journey to get back on Wednesday after dropping the C2 off at the NEC , it was closed again on Friday

morning when two trucks crashed into each other at 6 am ,lucky it was the opposite way but still caused a problem for us

and on Sunday evening it was closed due to another accident and took me six hours getting in at midnight after leaving the NEC at six,

No wonder you guys don't want to travel to the shows that are any distance,

If i'd been in something like the Fiat especially having a stressful two days at the NEC i'm not sure if i would have coped so well in the traffic

as i did in the Merc wagon which had a calming effect on me where in a smaller manual car i'd be wanting to rip other drivers heads off.

I'm sure you are going to have lots of fun in the Abarth just keep away from the M40


PS--------- I expect you have already seen "Harry's Garage " video on the 308 GT4 ,

Watch it this morning ,really enjoyed it ,bought back some good memories

Edited by ratrod 2 on Monday 25th March 15:36

Cheers Jon - as for comfort it's pretty good for a short wheelbase snorty little runabout, on the test drive down the A45 dual carriageway and bits of the Fosse it rode a lot better than the 500 we're trading in for it, despite the stiffer suspension. The seats are very comfortable too which helps.

Yes, saw Harry's bit on the fabulous Bertone wedge, I really enjoyed that and I like his honesty when it comes to the pros and cons. I'd have one in a heartbeat, as well you know

I know you didn't get your full whack for the C2 but I hope you enjoy spending the spoils!

[ratrod 2]

newsatten said:

Funny enough was talking to a guy yesterday at the NEC and he owned a ZR 1 one of his collection of 30 cars,

Asked him where he keeps so many he replied Norfolk.

I asked about the spares situation on the ZR1's after being told by Scott at Corvette Kingdom

that it's almost impossible to get any, he said being a engineer he makes them himself.

I've had a few C4's but not really been a lover of them but the ZR 1 is a different animal,

There was lovely silver blue one locally with a cam ,uprated lowered suspension and all but

a straight through exhaust ,Adrian Dromey bought it in the end and put it back to stock

selling all the parts separately ,

Their was 2 guys use to bring their black ZR 1's to the Guildford cruise both very highly modified,

one having the engine painted bright yellow,

You may know all 3 cars if they were members of the CCC rosco.

What a shame to let that car get into that state,

All down to price i suppose as if spares are scarce could be a expensive frustrating restoration but there again

can't be many if any at all that is affordable if you have the know how to get stuck in.

I shall watch it with interest although i do not have the talent to fix it myself so as you say a money pit but a worth while one.



Ces’t la vie
We win some etc !!
Time to move on , could be worse son
For me to buy the last hurrah I’ve got to commit to another year at work !! FFS I’ll be almost 70 by the time i finally escape!
But I’m using work as my guiding light!
Or carrot !!
Either which way it’s all about the smile on my face when/if I open the garage door !
So time for a 57 T bird probably the most serene motor car Ford have produced!
Should have made that clearer!
The birds for you RR not me !!

No I want a proper Muscle car you still toying with selling your Vette Rosco !!!
lol
Sand it to death , bury it in Epoxy then 5 coats of Fathom Green then 5 coats of clear,
Wait a week DA sand with 2000 , wet flat with 1500 then spend two days with the mop!!

Edited by newsatten on Monday 25th March 18:55

Got a few cars on my shopping list ,some yanks but also Brit and Italian stuff so anything can happen,

Nipper has spotted a car he likes that both of us could have some fun in being auctioned on Wednesday ,

Two auctions in a few days of each other but more fun buying than the stress of selling .

Yes your right about the smile on your face when you open the garage door even if you don't go anywhere

[roscobbc]

newsatten said:

ratrod 2 said:

roscobbc said:

Now you've parted with the Vette Jon - wanna 'indulge' yourself in a potential 'depthless' money pit? - or perhaps just a wash, new battery and fluid changes may be all thats needed?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266736157462?itmmeta=01...

Funny enough was talking to a guy yesterday at the NEC and he owned a ZR 1 one of his collection of 30 cars,

Asked him where he keeps so many he replied Norfolk.

I asked about the spares situation on the ZR1's after being told by Scott at Corvette Kingdom

that it's almost impossible to get any, he said being a engineer he makes them himself.

I've had a few C4's but not really been a lover of them but the ZR 1 is a different animal,

There was lovely silver blue one locally with a cam ,uprated lowered suspension and all but

a straight through exhaust ,Adrian Dromey bought it in the end and put it back to stock

selling all the parts separately ,

Their was 2 guys use to bring their black ZR 1's to the Guildford cruise both very highly modified,

one having the engine painted bright yellow,

You may know all 3 cars if they were members of the CCC rosco.

What a shame to let that car get into that state,

All down to price i suppose as if spares are scarce could be a expensive frustrating restoration but there again

can't be many if any at all that is affordable if you have the know how to get stuck in.

I shall watch it with interest although i do not have the talent to fix it myself so as you say a money pit but a worth while one.


No I want a proper Muscle car you still toying with selling your Vette Rosco !!!
lol
Sand it to death , bury it in Epoxy then 5 coats of Fathom Green then 5 coats of clear,
Wait a week DA sand with 2000 , wet flat with 1500 then spend two days with the mop!!

Edited by newsatten on Monday 25th March 18:55

Yes, some of those guys were certainly Kent and Surrey members - there was a garage that specialised in quad cam ZR1's - Geoff Jeal I think was the owner - seem to recall some kind of falling out with him and a member......believe he went overseas, perhaps to the 'States? - one of the Kent members Brett Grant still has red 'stroker ZR1. He crated his engine over to Haibeck Automotive Technology in Illinois for this rebuild. The engine has very little connection to GM's small block. It more in connection with Yamaha (who designed it), Mercury Marine (who built it) and Lotus at Hethel who did much of the development of the engine and road testing on the car and engine. I was offered one 7 or 8 years ago for £10K. Nice car but engine didn't seem to run too well - possibly a software issue but too much of a gamble for me. Having said all that the engine has a reputation of being bulletproof.......but unlike a pre 70's Yank with no electronics which you'd reasonably expect to fire-up after sitting in a dry garage for 20 years.........

And yes, Newsatten even though I've had the car coming on for 25 years I've never really managed to complete what I originally aimed to do with it (so no 8 stack fuel injection, no body-off full resto etc etc)......too many life issues have got in the way.....getting laid-off 3 years ago topped it all off. Yes I guess (as the Italians say) if someone makes me an offer I can't refuse then I'll seriously consider selling the Vette. I am quite concerned about selling a 'killer' car - whilst perfectly safe running on 'primaries' - and perfectly safe below 3000 rpm - perfectly safe too (ish) on dry roads......but hit 3500rpm and things go seriously manic. I love it - great fun. Kinda wish I'd been in the position to have bought Jon's C2 and cool things down into old (older) age.

[newsatten]

roscobbc said:

Yes, some of those guys were certainly Kent and Surrey members - there was a garage that specialised in quad cam ZR1's - Geoff Jeal I think was the owner - seem to recall some kind of falling out with him and a member......believe he went overseas, perhaps to the 'States? - one of the Kent members Brett Grant still has red 'stroker ZR1. He crated his engine over to Haibeck Automotive Technology in Illinois for this rebuild. The engine has very little connection to GM's small block. It more in connection with Yamaha (who designed it), Mercury Marine (who built it) and Lotus at Hethel who did much of the development of the engine and road testing on the car and engine. I was offered one 7 or 8 years ago for £10K. Nice car but engine didn't seem to run too well - possibly a software issue but too much of a gamble for me. Having said all that the engine has a reputation of being bulletproof.......but unlike a pre 70's Yank with no electronics which you'd reasonably expect to fire-up after sitting in a dry garage for 20 years.........

And yes, Newsatten even though I've had the car coming on for 25 years I've never really managed to complete what I originally aimed to do with it (so no 8 stack fuel injection, no body-off full resto etc etc)......too many life issues have got in the way.....getting laid-off 3 years ago topped it all off. Yes I guess (as the Italians say) if someone makes me an offer I can't refuse then I'll seriously consider selling the Vette. I am quite concerned about selling a 'killer' car - whilst perfectly safe running on 'primaries' - and perfectly safe below 3000 rpm - perfectly safe too (ish) on dry roads......but hit 3500rpm and things go seriously manic. I love it - great fun. Kinda wish I'd been in the position to have bought Jon's C2 and cool things down into old (older) age.

When I was at turner’s he brought a ZL1
I thought these were a lotus development?
Far to exotic for a peasant like me,
One cam in the block is complicated enough for me!

As for RR Vette think we all would have loved to give it a home !
Hey ho , I’m sure he’ll be back in the car hunt very soon!
Like the rest of us probably got 20/50 running through his veins!
And Lordy your Vettes a weapon for sure
But that doesn’t mean it has to be overly scary,
Like all things slightly unpredictable one would need to approach with caution!!
If it was mine it would be tad slower due to the weight of the paint and the enormous chrome side exhaust!

[ratrod 2]

Ye my C2 wasn't particularly quick ,felt more Healey 3000 come TR6 performance ,maybe slightly quicker,

Was expecting more E Type 3.8/4.2 go ,

Strange as it was fitted with catch tank ,

foamed filled aluminium petrol tank,

close ratio box with lightened flywheel and 550 bhp clutch .

Felt more cruise than muscle having a embarrassing quiet exhaust didn't help either,

completely different to rosco's raw machine with it's light the touch paper and stand well back rocket performance ,

[roscobbc]

ratrod 2 said:

Ye my C2 wasn't particularly quick ,felt more Healey 3000 come TR6 performance ,maybe slightly quicker,

Was expecting more E Type 3.8/4.2 go ,

Strange as it was fitted with catch tank ,

foamed filled aluminium petrol tank,

close ratio box with lightened flywheel and 550 bhp clutch .

Felt more cruise than muscle having a embarrassing quiet exhaust didn't help either,

completely different to rosco's raw machine with it's light the touch paper and stand well back rocket performance ,

A few seconds after 'lighting the touch paper'

[ratrod 2]

roscobbc said:

A few seconds after 'lighting the touch paper'

Looks in a few seconds later you are going to need a pilots licence rosco.

[ratrod 2]

Just been watching Sam on the his "Seen through Glass" channel ,

He's driving three Shelby Mustangs from a 67 to a 2009,

More use to driving his Porsche's and Ferrari's he seems to be enjoying himself.

[aeropilot]

ratrod 2 said:

close ratio box with lightened flywheel and 550 bhp clutch .

I thought it had a 5-speed box....?

[ratrod 2]

aeropilot said:

ratrod 2 said:

close ratio box with lightened flywheel and 550 bhp clutch .

I thought it had a 5-speed box....?

Yes it has a 5 speed, on the invoice it stated close ratio 5 speed plus details of the lightened flywheel

and the clutch with lots of numbers including 550 hp rating ,

Can't no longer look it up as i handed the service folder to the auction .

[aeropilot]

ratrod 2 said:

aeropilot said:

ratrod 2 said:

close ratio box with lightened flywheel and 550 bhp clutch .

I thought it had a 5-speed box....?

Yes it has a 5 speed, on the invoice it stated close ratio 5 speed plus details of the lightened flywheel

and the clutch with lots of numbers including 550 hp rating ,

Can't no longer look it up as i handed the service folder to the auction .

I wonder if it was a Richmond gearbox then...?

As far as I'm aware the only two choices are a Tremec or the Richmond, most companies offering 5-speed conversions over the years used the Tremec, which doesn't have a close ratio set of gears....well, not like a M21 Muncie set of cogs.

The Richmond does have the option, but is a lot more expensive, and more bespoke (same gearbox as used in NASCAR in effect)

Could be why it had a notchy feel to it.....Tremec's being more production car in smoothness.

[ratrod 2]

aeropilot said:

ratrod 2 said:

aeropilot said:

ratrod 2 said:

close ratio box with lightened flywheel and 550 bhp clutch .

I thought it had a 5-speed box....?

Yes it has a 5 speed, on the invoice it stated close ratio 5 speed plus details of the lightened flywheel

and the clutch with lots of numbers including 550 hp rating ,

Can't no longer look it up as i handed the service folder to the auction .

I wonder if it was a Richmond gearbox then...?

As far as I'm aware the only two choices are a Tremec or the Richmond, most companies offering 5-speed conversions over the years used the Tremec, which doesn't have a close ratio set of gears....well, not like a M21 Muncie set of cogs.

The Richmond does have the option, but is a lot more expensive, and more bespoke (same gearbox as used in NASCAR in effect)

Could be why it had a notchy feel to it.....Tremec's being more production car in smoothness.

We spoke about the gearbox some time ago and you did mention a Company in Tennessee that made early 5 speeds and it wasn't Richmond.

I checked my invoice for the box and it was the Company you mentioned but i can't remember their name ,

If i heard it again it wound probably jog my memory . It was bought in 2004 so quite a long time ago.

[aeropilot]

ratrod 2 said:

aeropilot said:

ratrod 2 said:

aeropilot said:

ratrod 2 said:

close ratio box with lightened flywheel and 550 bhp clutch .

I thought it had a 5-speed box....?

Yes it has a 5 speed, on the invoice it stated close ratio 5 speed plus details of the lightened flywheel

and the clutch with lots of numbers including 550 hp rating ,

Can't no longer look it up as i handed the service folder to the auction .

I wonder if it was a Richmond gearbox then...?

As far as I'm aware the only two choices are a Tremec or the Richmond, most companies offering 5-speed conversions over the years used the Tremec, which doesn't have a close ratio set of gears....well, not like a M21 Muncie set of cogs.

The Richmond does have the option, but is a lot more expensive, and more bespoke (same gearbox as used in NASCAR in effect)

Could be why it had a notchy feel to it.....Tremec's being more production car in smoothness.

We spoke about the gearbox some time ago and you did mention a Company in Tennessee that made early 5 speeds and it wasn't Richmond.

I checked my invoice for the box and it was the Company you mentioned but i can't remember their name ,

If i heard it again it wound probably jog my memory . It was bought in 2004 so quite a long time ago.

Keisler...?

If so, it still doesn't make it clear on which gearbox it was, as in later years (after 2004) Keisler did try and make their own gearbox, (or rather one made for them by Legend Gears) but in the earlier days they did use other gearboxes, including the Richmond unit, which I think back then was still the Doug Nash 5-speed, which was later bought out by Richmond, so they are one and the same in effect. Keisler also used to sell Tremec units so.......

[ratrod 2]

aeropilot said:

Keisler...?

If so, it still doesn't make it clear on which gearbox it was, as in later years (after 2004) Keisler did try and make their own gearbox, (or rather one made for them by Legend Gears) but in the earlier days they did use other gearboxes, including the Richmond unit, which I think back then was still the Doug Nash 5-speed, which was later bought out by Richmond, so they are one and the same in effect. Keisler also used to sell Tremec units so.......

Keisler Engineering ,that's the company ,$4800 with gearbox,clutch,lightened flywheel plus bits and bobs,

Add freight ,import tax and vat plus labour to fit it so wasn't a cheap item even back in 2004 ,

Hate to think what the cost would be today,

Edited by ratrod 2 on Tuesday 26th March 22:56

[aeropilot]

ratrod 2 said:

aeropilot said:

Keisler...?

If so, it still doesn't make it clear on which gearbox it was, as in later years (after 2004) Keisler did try and make their own gearbox, (or rather one made for them by Legend Gears) but in the earlier days they did use other gearboxes, including the Richmond unit, which I think back then was still the Doug Nash 5-speed, which was later bought out by Richmond, so they are one and the same in effect. Keisler also used to sell Tremec units so.......

Keisler Engineering ,that's the company ,$4800 with gearbox,clutch,lightened flywheel plus bits and bobs,

Add freight ,import tax and vat plus labour to fit it so wasn't a cheap item even back in 2004 ,

Hate to thing what the cost would be today,

Not sure who does offer 5-speed conversions these days to say, as Keisler Engineering went bankrupt 10 years ago.

I'm sure there must be some companies in USA that took up the conversion kit market after Keisler went bust.

[newsatten]

[quote=ratrod 2]

Keisler Engineering ,that's the company ,$4800 with gearbox,clutch,lightened flywheel plus bits and bobs,

Add freight ,import tax and vat plus labour to fit it so wasn't a cheap item even back in 2004 ,

Hate to thing what the cost would be today,



Getting on for 10k
I looked into it , very costly exercise now !
But obviously if the cars already a manual then maybe a bit cheaper ,

I also looked into V8 ting the B’
About 20k !