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tertius

4,945 posts

118 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
Slyjoe said:
Ok then, 3 watches, basically look the same from a distance to the casual observer, any watch freak would know the difference, vast price difference... why not just buy a Rolex rep?



I do have the seiko, which I would love to mod in this way, purely as I love the look of the "original", The Steinhart is not a cheap watch either.
Just here for discussion..., and to see what value people put on price, value and longevity
Personally I wouldn't buy any of them as I think they are all 'orrible ... wink

And every one of them has my personal pet hate of a contrasting date wheel, which I think can make any watch look cheap.

Blackpuddin

5,779 posts

93 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
Slyjoe said:
Ok then, 3 watches, basically look the same from a distance to the casual observer, any watch freak would know the difference, vast price difference... why not just buy a Rolex rep?



I do have the seiko, which I would love to mod in this way, purely as I love the look of the "original", The Steinhart is not a cheap watch either.
Just here for discussion..., and to see what value people put on price, value and longevity
Edited by Slyjoe on Friday 5th October 00:02
This is the aspect that interests me. How do Messrs Steinhart and Seiko get away with what I would have thought was a clear case of 'passing off'? They've put their own brand names on there, but in every other respect they are pretty much mirror copies of the Rolex.
In the motor industry there was a lot of hopping up and down when Chinese car companies turned out homages/replicas/whatever you want to call them of Rolls-Royces, Jaguars etc. Unlike these Steinhart and Seiko watches, those 'copies' were in no way exact, but there was still a lot of outrage. In the music biz you only have to prove a vague connection, a chord sequence here or there, to win your case against a copycat song producer. Why is the watch business different?

Dempsey1971

116 posts

58 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
Blackpuddin said:
This is the aspect that interests me. How do Messrs Steinhart and Seiko get away with what I would have thought was a clear case of 'passing off'? They've put their own brand names on there, but in every other respect they are pretty much mirror copies of the Rolex.
In the motor industry there was a lot of hopping up and down when Chinese car companies turned out homages/replicas/whatever you want to call them of Rolls-Royces, Jaguars etc. Unlike these Steinhart and Seiko watches, those 'copies' were in no way exact, but there was still a lot of outrage. In the music biz you only have to prove a vague connection, a chord sequence here or there, to win your case against a copycat song producer. Why is the watch business different?
Because, and this is all hush hush you understand, the High end manufacturers probably wouldn't sell as many watches if people didn't try out a copy / homage first rather than blow 5k on a watch you may not like 'on your wrist' after 2 months.

I know a few people who have bought reps to try out the look and size and 'eareability' of the brand before commiting what is for them a large chunk of money. Without this oppurtunity, they wouldn't have blown the cash.

whoami

9,903 posts

128 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
Dempsey1971 said:
Because, and this is all hush hush you understand, the High end manufacturers probably wouldn't sell as many watches if people didn't try out a copy / homage first rather than blow 5k on a watch you may not like 'on your wrist' after 2 months.
rofl

Gizmoish

18,107 posts

97 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
Dempsey1971 said:
Blackpuddin said:
This is the aspect that interests me. How do Messrs Steinhart and Seiko get away with what I would have thought was a clear case of 'passing off'? They've put their own brand names on there, but in every other respect they are pretty much mirror copies of the Rolex.
In the motor industry there was a lot of hopping up and down when Chinese car companies turned out homages/replicas/whatever you want to call them of Rolls-Royces, Jaguars etc. Unlike these Steinhart and Seiko watches, those 'copies' were in no way exact, but there was still a lot of outrage. In the music biz you only have to prove a vague connection, a chord sequence here or there, to win your case against a copycat song producer. Why is the watch business different?
Because, and this is all hush hush you understand, the High end manufacturers probably wouldn't sell as many watches if people didn't try out a copy / homage first rather than blow 5k on a watch you may not like 'on your wrist' after 2 months.

I know a few people who have bought reps to try out the look and size and 'eareability' of the brand before commiting what is for them a large chunk of money. Without this oppurtunity, they wouldn't have blown the cash.
Well, it's an interesting theory... certainly more applicable to the Steinhart-type watches than the chinese 'pure fakes'.
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tertius

4,945 posts

118 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
Gizmoish said:
Dempsey1971 said:
Blackpuddin said:
This is the aspect that interests me. How do Messrs Steinhart and Seiko get away with what I would have thought was a clear case of 'passing off'? They've put their own brand names on there, but in every other respect they are pretty much mirror copies of the Rolex.
In the motor industry there was a lot of hopping up and down when Chinese car companies turned out homages/replicas/whatever you want to call them of Rolls-Royces, Jaguars etc. Unlike these Steinhart and Seiko watches, those 'copies' were in no way exact, but there was still a lot of outrage. In the music biz you only have to prove a vague connection, a chord sequence here or there, to win your case against a copycat song producer. Why is the watch business different?
Because, and this is all hush hush you understand, the High end manufacturers probably wouldn't sell as many watches if people didn't try out a copy / homage first rather than blow 5k on a watch you may not like 'on your wrist' after 2 months.

I know a few people who have bought reps to try out the look and size and 'eareability' of the brand before commiting what is for them a large chunk of money. Without this oppurtunity, they wouldn't have blown the cash.
Well, it's an interesting theory... certainly more applicable to the Steinhart-type watches than the chinese 'pure fakes'.
I must say I find that very hard to believe.

I certainly don't know but I suspect it is that:

a) except for a few very unusual/easily identifiable features watch design is essentially in the public domain and therefore un-copyright-able; and

b) the watches are sufficiently different that you couldn't claim it was in fact a copy

I mean just look at the number of watches from supposedly high-end makers that are extraordinarily similar - e.g. Breitling SuperOcean and Blancpain Fifty Fathoms

Blackpuddin

5,779 posts

93 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
This is my point though, the points of difference seem to be set at a microscopically small level for watches but not for other items (cars, handbags, posh scents etc). Maybe it's all down to the level of expectation among buyers. Whatever, it's odd.

Gizmoish

18,107 posts

97 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
Blackpuddin said:
This is my point though, the points of difference seem to be set at a microscopically small level for watches but not for other items (cars, handbags, posh scents etc). Maybe it's all down to the level of expectation among buyers. Whatever, it's odd.
There are only so many ways you can make a circular-faced watch on a metal strap look different though. (The Panerai and various Hublots probably being the outliers).

Music has all of 20Hz - 20kHz to play with, and infinite variations of pattern therein.

Blackpuddin

5,779 posts

93 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
Gizmoish said:
There are only so many ways you can make a circular-faced watch on a metal strap look different though. (The Panerai and various Hublots probably being the outliers).

Music has all of 20Hz - 20kHz to play with, and infinite variations of pattern therein.
You could change the shape of the hour markers, the hands - seems to me that Steinhart in particular is making very little effort to differentiate its watch from the Submariner. That's a polite way of putting it smile I've got no problem with it myself, I'm just a bit puzzled as to why Rolex seems equally unconcerned. Especially when they seem to be so concerned about Asian copies.

Blackpuddin

5,779 posts

93 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
Harking back to the 'try before you buy' idea mentioned earlier, what if (say) Steinhart was (for example) connected in some way to Rolex. Covertly adding an 'economy' rung to the bottom of the Rolex ladder, through Steinhart, would be quite a clever way of scooping up customers at that lower price point - with the possibility of them moving up into full Rolex ownership later. It would be a neat solution for Rolex, given that people will always be looking for Rolex-alikes at affordable prices.

whoami

9,903 posts

128 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
Blackpuddin said:
Harking back to the 'try before you buy' idea mentioned earlier, what if (say) Steinhart was (for example) connected in some way to Rolex. Covertly adding an 'economy' rung to the bottom of the Rolex ladder, through Steinhart, would be quite a clever way of scooping up customers at that lower price point - with the possibility of them moving up into full Rolex ownership later. It would be a neat solution for Rolex, given that people will always be looking for Rolex-alikes at affordable prices.
That was the original purpose of Tudor.

johnbaz

438 posts

66 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
whoami said:
You bought watches and don't wear them?
Err, I have a few that I don't wear either laugh


About half of the collection..



I've actually been conned with a watch, I bought it at a carbootsale and is supposed to be G-SHOCK, it was quickly confirmed on a G-SHOCK forum to be a fakeweeping





I didn't realise that G-shocks didn't have winding crowns banghead



John smile

whoami

9,903 posts

128 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
johnbaz said:
whoami said:
You bought watches and don't wear them?
Err, I have a few that I don't wear either laugh
Ah yes, but for entirely different reasons..smile

johnbaz

438 posts

66 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
whoami said:
Ah yes, but for entirely different reasons..smile
Ahhh, Right cool


John smile

Blackpuddin

5,779 posts

93 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
whoami said:
Blackpuddin said:
Harking back to the 'try before you buy' idea mentioned earlier, what if (say) Steinhart was (for example) connected in some way to Rolex. Covertly adding an 'economy' rung to the bottom of the Rolex ladder, through Steinhart, would be quite a clever way of scooping up customers at that lower price point - with the possibility of them moving up into full Rolex ownership later. It would be a neat solution for Rolex, given that people will always be looking for Rolex-alikes at affordable prices.
That was the original purpose of Tudor.
Not exactly a bargain option smile but launching another covert range in the £400-£500 bracket would make some business sense. Maybe Steinhart and Rolex have already come to some sort of licensing agreement where Rolex doesn't pursue them in exchange for a fee. Again, it would be a win situation for Rolex, they'd be getting paid to allow Steinhart to groom potential future custom for them.

Zigster

497 posts

32 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
That Steinhart is quite staggeringly close to the look of a green Submariner. I really fancy a green Sub but can't justify spending £5-6k at the moment as I've blown quite a bit on watches over the last couple of years. I also worry that it might date quite a bit - I might regret a green bezel in a few years. But at £350 for the Steinhart ... I'm really tempted. smile

I did buy a fake Rolex in the 80s - one of those things where you're in Spain and you spend £20 on something from a man on the beach with a bag of the things. It was awful quality and got thrown away pretty quickly and I've never been tempted with a fake since. But that Steinhart has confused me biggrin - it's not a fake, but neither is it really the genuine article. Hmmm ...
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