Looking at 1974 Subs. Anything to look for, esp Tudor
Discussion
The three classic and most affordable vintage Submariners fall into your birth year, the 5512, 5513 and 1680, and will be around the 4 million serial.
The 5512 is a non date, chronometer certified watch, and has four lines of text on the lower half of the dial as you see on the modern Submariner. It is the one famously worn by Steve McQueen.
The 5513 is also a non date, but was at a the time a cheaper, non chronometer certified watch, and has just two lines of text.
The 1680 is the first Submariner with a date, and your birth date just falls into the transition between the word 'Submariner' changing from red to white on the dial, so you have the pick of both.
Things to look out for include the originality of the bracelet (which will likely be a 9315 with folded links rather than the later 93150), the originality of the hands and bezel (look out for white lume on the hands and bezel pip, and check to see if they glow brightly compared to the dial lume) and paperwork (although a recent service sheet from Rolex is enough to confirm authenticity). None of these points would be a deal-breaker, just make sure they are factored into the price. Rolex get a bit trigger happy with their service replacements, and so like to swap out old stuff with new, so its common to see watches with replacement parts.
As for pricing, they range from about £3500 for a good 5513 to £9000 for a red writing 1680.
The Tudors are a cheaper, less frequently seen alternative, and were standard issue for the French Navy Marines and US Navy SEALs. Tudor began as an attempt by Hans Wilsdorf (the founder of Rolex) to make more affordable watches, and he used many components from Rolex together with cheaper off-the-shelf movements to bring down costs.
A 1974 Tudor Submariner will either be one of the last 7016 or a one of the first 9411 which were launched '73/'74. Neither watch will cost you more £2500, representing excellent value for money.
The 5512 is a non date, chronometer certified watch, and has four lines of text on the lower half of the dial as you see on the modern Submariner. It is the one famously worn by Steve McQueen.
The 5513 is also a non date, but was at a the time a cheaper, non chronometer certified watch, and has just two lines of text.
The 1680 is the first Submariner with a date, and your birth date just falls into the transition between the word 'Submariner' changing from red to white on the dial, so you have the pick of both.
Things to look out for include the originality of the bracelet (which will likely be a 9315 with folded links rather than the later 93150), the originality of the hands and bezel (look out for white lume on the hands and bezel pip, and check to see if they glow brightly compared to the dial lume) and paperwork (although a recent service sheet from Rolex is enough to confirm authenticity). None of these points would be a deal-breaker, just make sure they are factored into the price. Rolex get a bit trigger happy with their service replacements, and so like to swap out old stuff with new, so its common to see watches with replacement parts.
As for pricing, they range from about £3500 for a good 5513 to £9000 for a red writing 1680.
The Tudors are a cheaper, less frequently seen alternative, and were standard issue for the French Navy Marines and US Navy SEALs. Tudor began as an attempt by Hans Wilsdorf (the founder of Rolex) to make more affordable watches, and he used many components from Rolex together with cheaper off-the-shelf movements to bring down costs.
A 1974 Tudor Submariner will either be one of the last 7016 or a one of the first 9411 which were launched '73/'74. Neither watch will cost you more £2500, representing excellent value for money.
Edited by AndrewWF on Monday 3rd September 14:19
How about this - ok you'd want the correct year (only 3 out) but its a start
http://www.network54.com/Forum/207673/message/1345...
http://www.network54.com/Forum/207673/message/1345...
JABB said:
Great reply, thanks Andrew. Much to research.
I don't fuss after a date too much, and do like the snowflake.
In terms of the military ones, would it be preferable to search abroad too?
A military Tudor Sub will set you back more than double a normal one and are only recognisable through the engravings on the caseback. Trying to narrow a birthyear Tudor MilSub will be very difficult! Although they were issued as early as the sixties, I think the bulk (which went to the French Navy and have MNxx inscriptons) were issued in the eighties.I don't fuss after a date too much, and do like the snowflake.
In terms of the military ones, would it be preferable to search abroad too?
DKL said:
How about this - ok you'd want the correct year (only 3 out) but its a start
http://www.network54.com/Forum/207673/message/1345...
There is one on Ebay, a 1973, with a £1825 or best offer, but it needs to be a 74http://www.network54.com/Forum/207673/message/1345...
Aaaa. oh, well you're on the money there Andrew regarding the Tudor MNs, there are '74 issued ones and it was from about 1983 that issuing stopped, but you could find 'civilian' ones as has been said. Choices choices, for me I prefer the snowflake/square marker setup, however I would swither between black and blue dial...
Thread update. ( Yes, it has taken this long to find a 1974! )
Bought from ebay, showing a nato strap, suggesting a bracelet but that was it. Everything checked out, and it was sent to an AD for verification and valuation. The only non standard part seems to be the crown, which is now a triplock crown, and the pearl is missing. The watch head is a 7016 and the strap a 9135 folded, diver extension and 380 end links. This was slightly warn and too long. I sent it to Michael Young, the genius, in Hong Kong who sized it and polished it sparingly. I bought a leather strap and can't decide between the two.
Bought from ebay, showing a nato strap, suggesting a bracelet but that was it. Everything checked out, and it was sent to an AD for verification and valuation. The only non standard part seems to be the crown, which is now a triplock crown, and the pearl is missing. The watch head is a 7016 and the strap a 9135 folded, diver extension and 380 end links. This was slightly warn and too long. I sent it to Michael Young, the genius, in Hong Kong who sized it and polished it sparingly. I bought a leather strap and can't decide between the two.
Lovely watch, well done. Don't replace the pearl! Keep it as aged an untouched as possible!
ETA - I have a 1973 birthyear Submariner 1680. Original bracelet, handset, dial etc. Top hat plexiglass replaced at service, fair enough, but the original bezel insert was replaced as well, and the pip looks so out of place against the patina of the hands and dial. I'm on the lookout for an original ghosted 1680 bezel insert to replace the new one with.
ETA - I have a 1973 birthyear Submariner 1680. Original bracelet, handset, dial etc. Top hat plexiglass replaced at service, fair enough, but the original bezel insert was replaced as well, and the pip looks so out of place against the patina of the hands and dial. I'm on the lookout for an original ghosted 1680 bezel insert to replace the new one with.
Edited by bunglesprout on Friday 21st October 13:35
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