Advice needed - Sub - v- sub-alike
Discussion
RobinBanks said:
Yes, if you're looking at date Rolexes the date does appear not to line up properly with the cyclops apart from head on.
For me, that's yet another reason to go for a no-date - it honestly looked like the sort of issue you'd see on a fake - both the dealer and I tried to look at the face square-on and it still looked out of placeNigel_O said:
Hmmm - about to learn another bit of Rolex info - by "Two-line", are you referring to the text on the dial (ie not the COSC versions)?
Yep. The two line 14060 just says 'submariner' and '1000ft - 300m' whereas the 4 liner also says 'superlative chronometer' and 'officially certified' which refers to COSC certification.The 2 liner is the 'cleanest' and is preferred by many as it's closest to the original Sub. Others prefer the 4 line version and want the satisfaction of knowing it's COSC certified. It's a matter of personal choice really. When I was shopping around for mine I'd have bought whichever came along at the right price/condition.
I can't remember what the technical differences are between the two but my 2 line is well within COSC standards of accuracy anyway!
Also you'll see variations of the 'SWISS MADE' and "SWISS T<25' markings at the bottom of the dial. The T<25 indicated the markings had a radioactive substance called Tritium on them to make them glow (the <25 refers to the amount applied). This will have 'run out' long ago so don't expect the markings to glow in the dark any more, but is still sought after by some. If it says 'Swiss Made' then it has LumiNova which is a later type of lume and is quite common nowadays.
Another variable to look for on Subs is the engraved rehaut on the newer ones. Some love it, some hate it. Personally I think it spoils the clean lines of a no-date.....
The only other thing to mention is to check the bracelet for 'sloppiness' and sag when you hold the watch sideways - this gives a good indication of how much wear the watch has had as the links stretch over the years. Also makes the bracelet less comfortable to wear as badly worn bracelets can pinch. Also make sure the bracelet is the right size for you and that all the links match - sometimes people get them adjusted and lose the spare links so when they're sold on they end up being replaced with non-original/non-matching links.
38911 said:
SVS said:
Buy a £500 Steinhart, wear it every day and in five years time it could be worth £250-300.
Don't be daft, of course it won't.. Bottom line is, if you can afford it, buy the Rolex. If you can't, buy a Chris Ward/Steinhart imitation.
I have both.
Rolex 5512 and Steinhart Ocean Red.
The Steinhart Ocean Red is larger, heavier and for its money, is astonishing value. I haven't worn the 5512 since having purchased the Steinhart 6 months ago. I don't care about day-to-day bashing the OR around. It keeps great time, looks great and the date/no-cyclops looks "just right" to me.
It looks like a cross between a Sea Dweller and an Omega Planet Ocean.
Rolex 5512 and Steinhart Ocean Red.
The Steinhart Ocean Red is larger, heavier and for its money, is astonishing value. I haven't worn the 5512 since having purchased the Steinhart 6 months ago. I don't care about day-to-day bashing the OR around. It keeps great time, looks great and the date/no-cyclops looks "just right" to me.
It looks like a cross between a Sea Dweller and an Omega Planet Ocean.
Interesting, similar discussion with my old man recently. He's actually a bit wary of the sub as he thinks too many will recognise it and think him a bit flash (he definitely isn't!!).
I wear a Seiko Skx007 that looks exactly like this:
Bracelet is aftermarket. There are loads of different styles of bracelet and strap. I have had this a couple of years, and I absolutely love it. Cost me less than £200, including the bracelet. Keeps good time (could do with being a touch faster, just can't be bothered to take the back off). I think it's a very good-looking watch. Watchy people like it for what it is -- a cheap, rugged automatic. People without a clue just assume it's expensive. It's big, though.
I wear a Seiko Skx007 that looks exactly like this:
Bracelet is aftermarket. There are loads of different styles of bracelet and strap. I have had this a couple of years, and I absolutely love it. Cost me less than £200, including the bracelet. Keeps good time (could do with being a touch faster, just can't be bothered to take the back off). I think it's a very good-looking watch. Watchy people like it for what it is -- a cheap, rugged automatic. People without a clue just assume it's expensive. It's big, though.
Hmmm - matters are progressing....
Spoke with the highly-recommended Dom from Hackett this afternoon (lucky, as he was just dropping into the office for a couple of hours, prior to nipping off for what sounds like a well-earned holiday....)
Anyway, he's offered me a very good price on an un-worn 114060M - still with pre-delivery seals and most of the Rolex warranty still to run
He also put me right on the value of a couple of s/h submariners - a 1996 date-sub with no papers and the 2006 no-date that was shown in the link earlier in this thread - both are "top-dollar" and probably not the bargain they seem. Dom was particularly wary of a no-papers watch, particularly in the hands of a complete novice like me. Resale was his biggest concern, which again, for a total novice, is a higher likelihood than a regular collector
Thankfully, Dom's holiday means I can't jump on the train to London and take it off his hands tomorrow, which in turn gives me a little thinking time.
However, with a new ceramic no-date at £5k, I'm struggling to see why I shouldn't take the plunge on Dom's offer - time to empty the piggy bank?
Spoke with the highly-recommended Dom from Hackett this afternoon (lucky, as he was just dropping into the office for a couple of hours, prior to nipping off for what sounds like a well-earned holiday....)
Anyway, he's offered me a very good price on an un-worn 114060M - still with pre-delivery seals and most of the Rolex warranty still to run
He also put me right on the value of a couple of s/h submariners - a 1996 date-sub with no papers and the 2006 no-date that was shown in the link earlier in this thread - both are "top-dollar" and probably not the bargain they seem. Dom was particularly wary of a no-papers watch, particularly in the hands of a complete novice like me. Resale was his biggest concern, which again, for a total novice, is a higher likelihood than a regular collector
Thankfully, Dom's holiday means I can't jump on the train to London and take it off his hands tomorrow, which in turn gives me a little thinking time.
However, with a new ceramic no-date at £5k, I'm struggling to see why I shouldn't take the plunge on Dom's offer - time to empty the piggy bank?
Nigel_O said:
Hmmm - matters are progressing....
Spoke with the highly-recommended Dom from Hackett this afternoon (lucky, as he was just dropping into the office for a couple of hours, prior to nipping off for what sounds like a well-earned holiday....)
Anyway, he's offered me a very good price on an un-worn 114060M - still with pre-delivery seals and most of the Rolex warranty still to run
He also put me right on the value of a couple of s/h submariners - a 1996 date-sub with no papers and the 2006 no-date that was shown in the link earlier in this thread - both are "top-dollar" and probably not the bargain they seem. Dom was particularly wary of a no-papers watch, particularly in the hands of a complete novice like me. Resale was his biggest concern, which again, for a total novice, is a higher likelihood than a regular collector
Thankfully, Dom's holiday means I can't jump on the train to London and take it off his hands tomorrow, which in turn gives me a little thinking time.
However, with a new ceramic no-date at £5k, I'm struggling to see why I shouldn't take the plunge on Dom's offer - time to empty the piggy bank?
Dom's a great guy - get it done and you'll be smiling for a long time to come! Spoke with the highly-recommended Dom from Hackett this afternoon (lucky, as he was just dropping into the office for a couple of hours, prior to nipping off for what sounds like a well-earned holiday....)
Anyway, he's offered me a very good price on an un-worn 114060M - still with pre-delivery seals and most of the Rolex warranty still to run
He also put me right on the value of a couple of s/h submariners - a 1996 date-sub with no papers and the 2006 no-date that was shown in the link earlier in this thread - both are "top-dollar" and probably not the bargain they seem. Dom was particularly wary of a no-papers watch, particularly in the hands of a complete novice like me. Resale was his biggest concern, which again, for a total novice, is a higher likelihood than a regular collector
Thankfully, Dom's holiday means I can't jump on the train to London and take it off his hands tomorrow, which in turn gives me a little thinking time.
However, with a new ceramic no-date at £5k, I'm struggling to see why I shouldn't take the plunge on Dom's offer - time to empty the piggy bank?
I can understand the no-papers Sub being a non-starter - but I'm genuinely curious as to why the 2006 no-date Sub with box, papers and warranty that the dealer was selling for £3300 is considered 'top dollar' when he appears to sell similar age/condition no-date Subs for around the £3.5 to £4k range? I'm not being disrespectful to Dom, just genuinely interested in case there is a rationale that I have missed?
38911 said:
I can understand the no-papers Sub being a non-starter - but I'm genuinely curious as to why the 2006 no-date Sub with box, papers and warranty that the dealer was selling for £3300 is considered 'top dollar' when he appears to sell similar age/condition no-date Subs for around the £3.5 to £4k range? I'm not being disrespectful to Dom, just genuinely interested in case there is a rationale that I have missed?
Morning guys. Nigel, thanks for the call it was nice to speak with you. Apologies for the brevity of the call, I was just leaving for the day. It's possible that I had not made myself clear, or had misunderstood you during our brief chat. It was the 1996 Submariner Date with no Rolex box or paperwork that I thought was a very poor offer. A 14060 Submariner, serviced, with Rolex boxes/paperwork and with a dealer warranty on offer at c£3300 would be a good deal. Apologies for any confusion.
Happy New Year!
Dom H
Ari said:
Nigel, it sounds like you're set on buying a Rolex, which is good. From experience, buying a cheaper watch costs more, since you have to add on the cost of the Rolex you're going to get eventually anyway...
Yes, I'm getting pretty close now, but man-maths has crept in, which is suggesting that with the deal that Dom has offered, I can have the Sub for 'best' and a Steinhart for when I don't want to risk the Rolex.Things were a lot simpler when I only visited the car forums on Pistonheads.....
Nigel_O said:
Yes, I'm getting pretty close now, but man-maths has crept in, which is suggesting that with the deal that Dom has offered, I can have the Sub for 'best' and a Steinhart for when I don't want to risk the Rolex.
Things were a lot simpler when I only visited the car forums on Pistonheads.....
If you own a Rolex, you won't want to wear a Steinhart copy, trust me. Things were a lot simpler when I only visited the car forums on Pistonheads.....
If you are worried about damaging the Rolex, insure it (you will probably want to anyway, in case of theft etc).
38911 said:
If you own a Rolex, you won't want to wear a Steinhart copy, trust me.
Nonsense! There is absolutely no reason in this work why the OP wouldn't wear another watch, just because he has a Rolex.Moreover, since he has the Rolex, he's unlikely to buy the homage version – there are plenty of other models to choose from, and that presumes he doesn't plumb for the HC mentioned in the op.
Personally I think the HC is played out now, since every ewe and her ram has one these days – there are many alternatives for the same or less money, if you're prepared to open your eyes and look beyond the High Street retail stores.
38911 said:
If you are worried about damaging the Rolex, insure it (you will probably want to anyway, in case of theft etc).
How will insurance protect against deep scratches or accidentally dinging it?Maybe some people can have a laissez-faire attitude towards their expensive acquisitions, but for many, they don't have that luxury.
Edited by PJ S on Friday 2nd January 12:05
PJ S said:
38911 said:
If you own a Rolex, you won't want to wear a Steinhart copy, trust me.
Nonsense! There is absolutely no reason in this work why the OP wouldn't wear another watch, just because he has a Rolex.Moreover, since he has the Rolex, he's unlikely to buy the homage version – there are plenty of other models to choose from, and that presumes he doesn't plumb for the HC mentioned in the op.
That's why I said, if you own a Rolex you won't want to wear a Steinhart COPY.
Of course if you want to bring other styles of watches into the equation then obviously there are a world of options. Alongside my Rolex I regularly wear a variety of watches including a Casio, a Tissot, a Seiko, a Tudor etc etc etc.....!
But that isnt what this topic is about, is it!
Ecurie Ecosse said:
Have you thought about the 16610 Sea Dweller?
Yes, but I have skinny wrists - the Sub is pretty much on the limit of what looks sensible on me - I'm even wondering if the extra two or three millimetres of the Steinhart would tip it over the edge (Sub is 40mm IIRC?)Posts above are probably correct - if (when?) I get a Sub, I'll probably wear it all the time. If I'm doing something where there's a chance of damage, I'll either put on one of my cheap, old faithful watches, or more likely, just take it off for a while
Another question for the aficionados....
Is a three-month old (and unworn) 114060M worth a grand more than a 2005 14060 (with box, papers & 6 month warranty)?
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