Present for daughter (what to avoid)
Discussion
Thank you I had already looked at this:
http://uk.tissotshop.com/ladies/ladies-classic-col...
budget creep already!
http://uk.tissotshop.com/ladies/ladies-classic-col...
budget creep already!
I have not heard about Roamer before....
I have two Tissot's in my collection... so I can comment on their build quality and value for money. IMO these are the biggest bang for your buck, especially the one you posted earlier.
Chris
Edited to add:
http://uk.tissotshop.com/tissot-carson-jungfraubah...
This is over your budget, however it has an automatic movement, which imo makes this a more of a land mark watch, ideally suited to a birthday etc.
I have two Tissot's in my collection... so I can comment on their build quality and value for money. IMO these are the biggest bang for your buck, especially the one you posted earlier.
Chris
Edited to add:
http://uk.tissotshop.com/tissot-carson-jungfraubah...
This is over your budget, however it has an automatic movement, which imo makes this a more of a land mark watch, ideally suited to a birthday etc.
Edited by toohuge on Friday 27th February 03:48
From a technical perspective, and taking the gloves off for a moment, avoid the Tissot!!!!
According to that link it uses a G10.961 movement. These are sealed plastic crap that are completely unrepairable when they go wrong - because you can't disassemble them without breaking them apart - and have to be replaced as a unit.
But (and here's the real kicker), the G10.961 is restricted by Swatch group so no-one but their service centres can replace it. You'll also be tied to them in the near future if she, say, breaks the crown off or even scratches the glass. They may hold the parts but they'll almost invariably insist on a "full service" in order to fit them. So you're tying yourself / her into whatever inflated repair charges they feel like, on a (technical) piece of junk that will need repair within 5 or 6 years - hardly fitting for an 18th imho.
In that price range you'll be very hard pressed to beat Citizen or Seiko for overall quality and long term back-up. I can still source most parts for both brands going back to the mid 90s or so, and a good proportion of stuff back the the 80s or even 70s! Even their plastic movements (more from Seiko than Citizen) are capable of being stripped (without using a Stanley knife and hammer) and serviced if they ever do go obsolete.
Alternatively, any of the fashion brands as suggested will probably delight but you'll be in much the same situation as with Swatch if it needs any casing or bracelet parts (clasps, links, crowns and so on) a couple of years down the line because fashions will have moved on.
According to that link it uses a G10.961 movement. These are sealed plastic crap that are completely unrepairable when they go wrong - because you can't disassemble them without breaking them apart - and have to be replaced as a unit.
But (and here's the real kicker), the G10.961 is restricted by Swatch group so no-one but their service centres can replace it. You'll also be tied to them in the near future if she, say, breaks the crown off or even scratches the glass. They may hold the parts but they'll almost invariably insist on a "full service" in order to fit them. So you're tying yourself / her into whatever inflated repair charges they feel like, on a (technical) piece of junk that will need repair within 5 or 6 years - hardly fitting for an 18th imho.
In that price range you'll be very hard pressed to beat Citizen or Seiko for overall quality and long term back-up. I can still source most parts for both brands going back to the mid 90s or so, and a good proportion of stuff back the the 80s or even 70s! Even their plastic movements (more from Seiko than Citizen) are capable of being stripped (without using a Stanley knife and hammer) and serviced if they ever do go obsolete.
Alternatively, any of the fashion brands as suggested will probably delight but you'll be in much the same situation as with Swatch if it needs any casing or bracelet parts (clasps, links, crowns and so on) a couple of years down the line because fashions will have moved on.
Edited by Variomatic on Friday 27th February 13:41
What I've seen of Mondaine have been reasonable.
The Stop2Go is a custom movement, so you have much the same problems for future repair, but at least seems to be reasonably reliable and not assembled with plastic melt-over rivets (you know, the sort the Chinese use on cheap toys) like the ETA is.
All the "normal" versions I've seen (which is most of them) have used Miyota (Citizen group) movements which are tough, reliable and easy to source if needed.
The Stop2Go is a custom movement, so you have much the same problems for future repair, but at least seems to be reasonably reliable and not assembled with plastic melt-over rivets (you know, the sort the Chinese use on cheap toys) like the ETA is.
All the "normal" versions I've seen (which is most of them) have used Miyota (Citizen group) movements which are tough, reliable and easy to source if needed.
Variomatic said:
From a technical perspective, and taking the gloves off for a moment, avoid the Tissot!!!!
According to that link it uses a G10.961 movement. These are sealed plastic crap that are completely unrepairable when they go wrong - because you can't disassemble them without breaking them apart - and have to be replaced as a unit.
But (and here's the real kicker), the G10.961 is restricted by Swatch group so no-one but their service centres can replace it. You'll also be tied to them in the near future if she, say, breaks the crown off or even scratches the glass. They may hold the parts but they'll almost invariably insist on a "full service" in order to fit them. So you're tying yourself / her into whatever inflated repair charges they feel like, on a (technical) piece of junk that will need repair within 5 or 6 years - hardly fitting for an 18th imho.
In that price range you'll be very hard pressed to beat Citizen or Seiko for overall quality and long term back-up. I can still source most parts for both brands going back to the mid 90s or so, and a good proportion of stuff back the the 80s or even 70s! Even their plastic movements (more from Seiko than Citizen) are capable of being stripped (without using a Stanley knife and hammer) and serviced if they ever do go obsolete.
Alternatively, any of the fashion brands as suggested will probably delight but you'll be in much the same situation as with Swatch if it needs any casing or bracelet parts (clasps, links, crowns and so on) a couple of years down the line because fashions will have moved on.
Surely any watch with a cheap Quartz movement is going to be much more cost effective to replace than fix the movement?According to that link it uses a G10.961 movement. These are sealed plastic crap that are completely unrepairable when they go wrong - because you can't disassemble them without breaking them apart - and have to be replaced as a unit.
But (and here's the real kicker), the G10.961 is restricted by Swatch group so no-one but their service centres can replace it. You'll also be tied to them in the near future if she, say, breaks the crown off or even scratches the glass. They may hold the parts but they'll almost invariably insist on a "full service" in order to fit them. So you're tying yourself / her into whatever inflated repair charges they feel like, on a (technical) piece of junk that will need repair within 5 or 6 years - hardly fitting for an 18th imho.
In that price range you'll be very hard pressed to beat Citizen or Seiko for overall quality and long term back-up. I can still source most parts for both brands going back to the mid 90s or so, and a good proportion of stuff back the the 80s or even 70s! Even their plastic movements (more from Seiko than Citizen) are capable of being stripped (without using a Stanley knife and hammer) and serviced if they ever do go obsolete.
Alternatively, any of the fashion brands as suggested will probably delight but you'll be in much the same situation as with Swatch if it needs any casing or bracelet parts (clasps, links, crowns and so on) a couple of years down the line because fashions will have moved on.
What's it take to swap one out and new one in? £50? How long does it take to disassemble, replace a part and reassemble? Seems to me that the 'fixability' of simple quartz watches is a total non-issue.
M
Swatch
Maybe one of the new automatics.
http://shop.swatch.com/en_gb/watches/irony/automat...
or
http://shop.swatch.com/en_gb/watches/irony/automat...
As for the question of servicing, id say in this price bracket its sort of irrelevant, the plastic movement point is relevant though it is good to know, but if you go with this way of thinking for a £200 watch then we would all be suggesting a G-Shock.
Maybe one of the new automatics.
http://shop.swatch.com/en_gb/watches/irony/automat...
or
http://shop.swatch.com/en_gb/watches/irony/automat...
As for the question of servicing, id say in this price bracket its sort of irrelevant, the plastic movement point is relevant though it is good to know, but if you go with this way of thinking for a £200 watch then we would all be suggesting a G-Shock.
Edited by Foliage on Friday 27th February 15:36
Edited by Foliage on Friday 27th February 15:42
The "in" watches for girls of that age at the moment are the Olivia Burton watches. A lot of the girls I know in early to mid twenties are buying them. A lot of love for them it seems!
http://www.oliviaburton.com/
http://www.oliviaburton.com/
nick s said:
The "in" watches for girls of that age at the moment are the Olivia Burton watches. A lot of the girls I know in early to mid twenties are buying them. A lot of love for them it seems!
http://www.oliviaburton.com/
In a similar vein of 'in' watches...Fossil? style over substance but seem to be the in thing for the age group...http://www.fossil.co.ukhttp://www.oliviaburton.com/
marcosgt said:
Surely any watch with a cheap Quartz movement is going to be much more cost effective to replace than fix the movement?
What's it take to swap one out and new one in? £50? How long does it take to disassemble, replace a part and reassemble? Seems to me that the 'fixability' of simple quartz watches is a total non-issue.
M
First of all, note the "here's the real kicker" bit in my post. Swatch won't supply that movement to anyone but their service centres which means that you pay their prices for repairs and no-one elses. hich means that £50 swap-out is going to cost you £100+What's it take to swap one out and new one in? £50? How long does it take to disassemble, replace a part and reassemble? Seems to me that the 'fixability' of simple quartz watches is a total non-issue.
M
Second, the point about being unrepairable isn't necessarily a non-issue, especially for an "event" watch like this. There are movements out there that cost less than £1.50 wholesale and you don't repair them.
But, if they become obsolete and replacement isn't an option, then they're good enough quality to service almost forever (all metal, properly screwed together and even jewelled in some cases).
There are also plenty of "better" quartz movements out there that are happily running despite being obsolete for decades - my normal wear is a 1976/7 Adina quartz from Australia that I've serviced twice in those 38 years (when it stopped) and still keeps time within 0.2 seconds a day.
As long as you don't suffer battery or water leakage to kill the circuit, or ham-fisted battery changes to kill the coil, a repairable quartz can last as long as practically any mechanical watch will. A non-repairable one is going to be scrap once the maker discontinues that movement.
An 18th present that has a problem in 5 years, can't be stripped and repaired, and you find they've discontinued the movement is a trap I'd personally rather not find myself in!
eta: Besides which, the G10 series really are the worst of the worst in terms of quartz movements. For build quality they're the watchmaking equivalent of LingLong tyres except that a lot of the Chinese production available now is actually put together better than them. Just because they're "Swiss" doesn't automatically make them decent.....
Edited by Variomatic on Friday 27th February 18:33
TimLambert7 said:
I'd be surprised if an 18 year old girl gives a toss whether its a good watch.
As much as it pains me to say, I'd look at Marc Jacobs and Michael Kors.
This!!As much as it pains me to say, I'd look at Marc Jacobs and Michael Kors.
On my daughters 18th she asked for a new watch and I suggested a proper swiss automatic,
I then tried to steer her towards the likes of Omega, Longines, Oris etc, pointing out that I was quite happy to cover the cost for the right watch
she showed no interest in anything I suggested and instead decided that what she really wanted was a watch by marc jacobs.
I would suggest taking her shopping and let her pick her own.
Variomatic said:
First of all, note the "here's the real kicker" bit in my post. Swatch won't supply that movement to anyone but their service centres which means that you pay their prices for repairs and no-one elses. hich means that £50 swap-out is going to cost you £100+
Second, the point about being unrepairable isn't necessarily a non-issue, especially for an "event" watch like this. There are movements out there that cost less than £1.50 wholesale and you don't repair them.
But, if they become obsolete and replacement isn't an option, then they're good enough quality to service almost forever (all metal, properly screwed together and even jewelled in some cases).
There are also plenty of "better" quartz movements out there that are happily running despite being obsolete for decades - my normal wear is a 1976/7 Adina quartz from Australia that I've serviced twice in those 38 years (when it stopped) and still keeps time within 0.2 seconds a day.
As long as you don't suffer battery or water leakage to kill the circuit, or ham-fisted battery changes to kill the coil, a repairable quartz can last as long as practically any mechanical watch will. A non-repairable one is going to be scrap once the maker discontinues that movement.
An 18th present that has a problem in 5 years, can't be stripped and repaired, and you find they've discontinued the movement is a trap I'd personally rather not find myself in!
eta: Besides which, the G10 series really are the worst of the worst in terms of quartz movements. For build quality they're the watchmaking equivalent of LingLong tyres except that a lot of the Chinese production available now is actually put together better than them. Just because they're "Swiss" doesn't automatically make them decent.....
All fair points, but are there any affordable quartz movements today that will match the overengineered ones of the 70s? I doubt it.Second, the point about being unrepairable isn't necessarily a non-issue, especially for an "event" watch like this. There are movements out there that cost less than £1.50 wholesale and you don't repair them.
But, if they become obsolete and replacement isn't an option, then they're good enough quality to service almost forever (all metal, properly screwed together and even jewelled in some cases).
There are also plenty of "better" quartz movements out there that are happily running despite being obsolete for decades - my normal wear is a 1976/7 Adina quartz from Australia that I've serviced twice in those 38 years (when it stopped) and still keeps time within 0.2 seconds a day.
As long as you don't suffer battery or water leakage to kill the circuit, or ham-fisted battery changes to kill the coil, a repairable quartz can last as long as practically any mechanical watch will. A non-repairable one is going to be scrap once the maker discontinues that movement.
An 18th present that has a problem in 5 years, can't be stripped and repaired, and you find they've discontinued the movement is a trap I'd personally rather not find myself in!
eta: Besides which, the G10 series really are the worst of the worst in terms of quartz movements. For build quality they're the watchmaking equivalent of LingLong tyres except that a lot of the Chinese production available now is actually put together better than them. Just because they're "Swiss" doesn't automatically make them decent.....
Whilst I can see that this is an 'event' watch, I can't REALLY see a £200 budget buying many watches that will be 'for life' and certainly anyone's going to think twice about spending £100 or more fixing any watch that cost £200 ten years on, however attached they are to it.
Repairing watches isn't cheap (unless the labour costs are free!
), so any watch at this price is only going to last the life of the movement, although I take your point about the movement in the Tissot being a poor one and, therefore, limiting that life.Like others, I'd probably plump for something with a fashion brand on the dial. It'll please here more than a Citizen or Seiko, I suspect - Or take her shopping and let her choose the style she likes, at least she'll wear it then!
M
There aren't many (if any) built like the 70s stuff, but there are plenty that have a good enough chance of servicing to at least try. Seiko / Hattori started using a lot of plastics in the early 90s and even those will usually service well as long as you use appropriate cleaning techniques (don't use normal solutions, use tetrachloroethylene instead, and don't heat dry them!).
I've even got an old Zeon dual display from 1990 with a Chinese movement that's been serviced 3 times so far and works fine - except all the pushers have fallen out of the case now ......
As for costs, you'd be amazed how many people are willing to pay to keep sentimental watches running. I quite regularly get old Timex and Sekonda in for service because they were someone's first watch, or a present from Granny, or whatever. Are they "worth" doing? Not from the replacement cost POV, but they clearly are to the owner.
Curiously, they tend to be the jobs I enjoy most as well, because you know the owner is going to really appreciate what you've done, especially when the maker has said "obsolete" and other places have just turned their noses up at the "cheap junk". Many of those owners have also moved on to better watches and have the money to maintain them, so it's not bad marketing either to save their fave old beater
I've even got an old Zeon dual display from 1990 with a Chinese movement that's been serviced 3 times so far and works fine - except all the pushers have fallen out of the case now ......
As for costs, you'd be amazed how many people are willing to pay to keep sentimental watches running. I quite regularly get old Timex and Sekonda in for service because they were someone's first watch, or a present from Granny, or whatever. Are they "worth" doing? Not from the replacement cost POV, but they clearly are to the owner.
Curiously, they tend to be the jobs I enjoy most as well, because you know the owner is going to really appreciate what you've done, especially when the maker has said "obsolete" and other places have just turned their noses up at the "cheap junk". Many of those owners have also moved on to better watches and have the money to maintain them, so it's not bad marketing either to save their fave old beater
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