Seiko 5 dropped and stopped working

[otherman]

I dropped it on a hard floor, and it's stopped. The second hand starts up if I shake the watch gently (as you might if it hasn't been used for a while and needs a wind) but stops if I stop moving it.
Any hope?

[reggie747]

otherman said:

Any hope?

No. Buy another....

[Variomatic]

There's always a hope (there's practically no such thing as an unrepairable watch) but, without seeing it, I'm afraid there's no way to know how expensive that hope might be.

Could be as simple as the hairspring catching up on its stud, or the shock protection not popping back into place properly (both easy and quick fixes) or could be as serious as a broken or bent balance staff (about as serious as it gets on these).

The fact that the seconds hand will move if shaken suggests it's less likely to be serious but can't really say more than that using the crystal ball

What sort of age of Seiko 5 is it? Parts availability varies quite a lot between the newer ones and the old 80s / 90s versions.

[otherman]

Variomatic said:

What sort of age of Seiko 5 is it? Parts availability varies quite a lot between the newer ones and the old 80s / 90s versions.

I bought it in 2004. Are the easier fixes things I can do myself? I'm thinking since it was £50, any sort of repair bill will soon overtake its value.

[Janesy B]

If it's worth something in sentimental value I'm sure a movement swap is something that can be done.

[Variomatic]

Janesy B said:

If it's worth something in sentimental value I'm sure a movement swap is something that can be done.

Shouldn't be needed. Complete balance on one of those (without servicing, so assuming the rest is ok) would come in at about £25 fitted.

OP, if you've got a steady hand a good eye and the tools needed (minimum of something to get the back off and fine tweezers) then you should be able to release a hooked-up hairspring yourself and you might manage to reset a shock protector if it was the rear one and it hadn't undone completely - often a careful nudge of the jewel will sort them. But in both cases, you can very easily write off the balance if you slip or are at all heavy handed with it.

If you watch through the case back (should be glass at that age, although it's around the change date so may not be) while shaking it gently, can you see if the balance seems to swing freely with it "dial up" and "dial down"?

Edited by Variomatic on Sunday 26th April 22:58

[Mr_C]

You could pop it in the post and send it to Joe (variomatic above) to have a quick look at.

[dittodee]

Variomatic said:

Shouldn't be needed. Complete balance on one of those (without servicing, so assuming the rest is ok) would come in at about £25 fitted.

OP, if you've got a steady hand a good eye and the tools needed (minimum of something to get the back off and fine tweezers) then you should be able to release a hooked-up hairspring yourself and you might manage to reset a shock protector if it was the rear one and it hadn't undone completely - often a careful nudge of the jewel will sort them. But in both cases, you can very easily write off the balance if you slip or are at all heavy handed with it.

If you watch through the case back (should be glass at that age, although it's around the change date so may not be) while shaking it gently, can you see if the balance seems to swing freely with it "dial up" and "dial down"?

Edited by Variomatic on Sunday 26th April 22:58

First of all sorry for hijacking OP

Hi Variomatic, I am facing the same issue as specified by OP and I would appreciate it if you could give a view.

1) I dropped my watch SNZG15 due to sheer clumsiness as I took the watch off (about 3 ft)
2) It stopped working totally
3) I realized that it only runs face down, and stops running when it is facing upwards

Would the damage be serious based on the symptoms above; how would the repairs be? This was a gift for my first job and I haven't had it for long; hence there's a sentimental value to fix it.

Thank you.

[johnbaz]

Most likely is that the balance wheel shaft has broken at one end

What happens is that if the unbroken end is facing down, The balance will spin but any movement away from that will cause the broken end to fall slightly which will stop the minute power at the balance..

I dropped a vintage MuDu at work as I was putting it in to my locker, It dropped around five feet on to quarry tiles, I knew instantly that it wouldn't survive as the shaft is high carbon steel which is tempered to such a hardness that it is brittle, Sometimes the shock protection will save it but not usually on a hard surfaces...


John..

[dittodee]

johnbaz said:

Most likely is that the balance wheel shaft has broken at one end

What happens is that if the unbroken end is facing down, The balance will spin but any movement away from that will cause the broken end to fall slightly which will stop the minute power at the balance..

I dropped a vintage MuDu at work as I was putting it in to my locker, It dropped around five feet on to quarry tiles, I knew instantly that it wouldn't survive as the shaft is high carbon steel which is tempered to such a hardness that it is brittle, Sometimes the shock protection will save it but not usually on a hard surfaces...


John..

Thanks for responding John.

I see..I'm sorry to hear you experienced a similar situation. However, Seiko 5 uses a rather common movement, correct me if I'm wrong; would you happen to know if the broken shaft will be easily replacable?

[johnbaz]

dittodee said:

Thanks for responding John.

I see..I'm sorry to hear you experienced a similar situation. However, Seiko 5 uses a rather common movement, correct me if I'm wrong; would you happen to know if the broken shaft will be easily replacable?

I've swapped whole balances over in the past with the spring and cock from donor movements but I struggled once to swap a broken shaft on a pocketwatch!!

I would think it would be easy for a trained watch repairer but I don't think it would be cheap these days..

Modern watch parts are made on CNC machines and the whole of the balance from one movement can be swapped on to another of the same calibre but old pocketwatches and wristwatches were hand made so when a Cock (A Cock is a plate that only fixes with one screw) is drilled and locating dowels fitted/screwholes tapped then they were done by eye so you can't simply swap parts over as the holes won't align..



John...

[Variomatic]

Johnbaz is likely to be right in his suggestion, although it's also possible that the shock protection has worked and either not dropped back into place properly, or "popped" completely and allowed the cap and balance jewels to drop out of place.

With these movements you can't get the balance staff on its own. Seiko have made a (fairly sensible) decision that it's more economical to replace the whole balance / hairspring assembly than strip and re-staff - a complete Seiko balance will cost less than a staff for most current Swiss production and take a LOT less time to fit!

There are two different versions of the balance depending on the movement in yours - 7S36 either A or B. Both are available, the B is a little more expensive but still not too scary

[GC8]

Touching on my contribution which is, that there are differing grades of 7S26. 5s tend to have entry level, whereas an SKX will have a higher grade.

[texaxile]

Variomatic had my Seiko SKX repaired and returned within a week, a fast turn around, and a nice bloke as well. I can't fault his service or prices, and as he's already said so here, why not get a quote for a repair, after all if a watch has been good over the years, like a decent car, sometimes it's worth spending a bit to get a few more years out of it than buying new.

[Variomatic]

GC8 said:

Touching on my contribution which is, that there are differing grades of 7S26. 5s tend to have entry level, whereas an SKX will have a higher grade.

The 7s36 is the "upgraded" version with 23 instead of 21 jewels, but the balance (and most other parts) are a direct interchange.

There are also the 6R and 4R series which have different mainsprings and (on some variants) hand winding and hacking. The 4R use the same balance, the 6R doesn't.

The 6R is virtually obsolete (for parts and full movements), the 7S2x are obsolete as movements but most parts available, the 7S3x and 4R series are available as full movements or spare parts.


eta: Thanks texaxile - nice to see it back with its stablemates on the "show your Seiko" thread

[dittodee]

Thanks for responding guys, I am overwhelmed to have subject matter experts giving inputs.

Variomatic said:

Johnbaz is likely to be right in his suggestion, although it's also possible that the shock protection has worked and either not dropped back into place properly, or "popped" completely and allowed the cap and balance jewels to drop out of place.

With these movements you can't get the balance staff on its own. Seiko have made a (fairly sensible) decision that it's more economical to replace the whole balance / hairspring assembly than strip and re-staff - a complete Seiko balance will cost less than a staff for most current Swiss production and take a LOT less time to fit!

There are two different versions of the balance depending on the movement in yours - 7S36 either A or B. Both are available, the B is a little more expensive but still not too scary

The first scenario sounds mildly favorable. But so long as there's a possibility that it can be fixed in a fair amount of time and cost - that is reassuring enough.

Here's a photo on the back case, not sure if it shows anything significant.
https://scontent-kul1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/...

texaxile said:

Variomatic had my Seiko SKX repaired and returned within a week, a fast turn around, and a nice bloke as well. I can't fault his service or prices, and as he's already said so here, why not get a quote for a repair, after all if a watch has been good over the years, like a decent car, sometimes it's worth spending a bit to get a few more years out of it than buying new.

That's wonderful! I wish I could use his services; but I am in Malaysia actually and I stumbled upon this site by symptom Googling.

[Variomatic]

That's a -36B and it looks like the shock protection is properly in place, which makes a new balance the most likely cure (although obviously can never be sure without having the watch in front of you!)

I would have thought that in Malaysia you should be able to find someone local to replace the balance without a problem unless you're out in the rainforest somewhere! Probably be relatively cheap as well thanks to lower labour rates (most of the cost is in the ability to do the job rather than the cost of parts). If you get really stuck then I have done work for people in the US, Czech Republic and Australia so no problem at this end adding Malaysia to the list

[dittodee]

Variomatic said:

That's a -36B and it looks like the shock protection is properly in place, which makes a new balance the most likely cure (although obviously can never be sure without having the watch in front of you!)

I would have thought that in Malaysia you should be able to find someone local to replace the balance without a problem unless you're out in the rainforest somewhere! Probably be relatively cheap as well thanks to lower labour rates (most of the cost is in the ability to do the job rather than the cost of parts). If you get really stuck then I have done work for people in the US, Czech Republic and Australia so no problem at this end adding Malaysia to the list

Haha I am not isolated enough to be in a rainforest yet! But thanks for your advice; I'll go searching for a shop that'll be able to repair this tomorrow.

If I do really get stuck like a headless chicken I'll be sure to look for you