Discussion
I treated myself to an ALT1-C-CR just before Christmas. I absolutely love it, and got a ridiculously good deal via Gemnation in the US. The build quality and attention to detail is tremendous. The only issue I have is that pulling out the crown to wind it up (I have 3 autos, no winder...) is almost impossible if you don't have long fingernails! I guess I just need to wear it more often!
I like Bremont as a brand too- they have a clear identity. Don't care if there's a lot of marketing spin or whatever- I think they have found their niche in the market and are doing very well out of it.
I now have my eye on the Kingsman rose gold- absolutely gorgeous to look at. Maybe in a few years' time...
I like Bremont as a brand too- they have a clear identity. Don't care if there's a lot of marketing spin or whatever- I think they have found their niche in the market and are doing very well out of it.
I now have my eye on the Kingsman rose gold- absolutely gorgeous to look at. Maybe in a few years' time...
Whilst I think the In House scandal thing was a massive screwup and they definitely deserve some ridicule served cold, I have absoloutely no time for the "oooh, they buy in their heritage= bunch of frauds" crowd. Every company buys their heritage to a greater or lesser extent, Bremont are just starting later than anyone else. I'd like to see anyone else do better.
Rolex (just an example, I think they're great) bought the patent for the screw-down crown, they didn't create it and weren't the first with a waterproof case. Nor did they create the worlds first self winding wrist watch. None of which you'd expect from reading their marketing. And calling it a Perpetual must have had watch collectors of the time choking into their tea! They made and make) good watches, but the rest of it is marketing- getting to Everest, who remembers Smiths? Diving watches, who (in the general public) knows what a Fifty Fathoms is? No-one cares. Make a good product, market it well.
Short of the Comex Rolex and the 321 Speedmaster, what else has marketing that you couldn't buy at the time?
They're all at it, and the ones who aren't are nowhere- Hamilton have a heritage to kill for, hell they might have won us the war! But they're packaged as an introductory brand and priced accordingly. A travesty. Half of the Swiss have been bankrupt or in the wilderness at some point- where was Breguet before Hayek saved them? Yet the industry is littered with amazing companies doing amazing work which noone buys or hears of because the entire industry is about marketing, customer eperience, marketing and how good you are at it. Who even knows who Urban Jurgensen are or would even recognise the name of Derek Pratt? For a certain market exclusivity might be a good thing, but that isn't Bremont's market.
They are (mostly) doing it right IMO and I admire them for not choosing the road of apologetic "plucky underdog" like dying Rover or starving for their art like Roger Smith painstakingly making a handful of watches a year. Do what you can well, build a reputation for good, reliable watches that look great. Choose your market. Make brand associations and absolutely scream from the rooftops about it. Bremont suffer from snobbery because when we're seeing heritage made in front of our eyes we don't like it, but it's always been that way. Tomorrows Heritage is todays Marketing.
Rolex (just an example, I think they're great) bought the patent for the screw-down crown, they didn't create it and weren't the first with a waterproof case. Nor did they create the worlds first self winding wrist watch. None of which you'd expect from reading their marketing. And calling it a Perpetual must have had watch collectors of the time choking into their tea! They made and make) good watches, but the rest of it is marketing- getting to Everest, who remembers Smiths? Diving watches, who (in the general public) knows what a Fifty Fathoms is? No-one cares. Make a good product, market it well.
Short of the Comex Rolex and the 321 Speedmaster, what else has marketing that you couldn't buy at the time?
They're all at it, and the ones who aren't are nowhere- Hamilton have a heritage to kill for, hell they might have won us the war! But they're packaged as an introductory brand and priced accordingly. A travesty. Half of the Swiss have been bankrupt or in the wilderness at some point- where was Breguet before Hayek saved them? Yet the industry is littered with amazing companies doing amazing work which noone buys or hears of because the entire industry is about marketing, customer eperience, marketing and how good you are at it. Who even knows who Urban Jurgensen are or would even recognise the name of Derek Pratt? For a certain market exclusivity might be a good thing, but that isn't Bremont's market.
They are (mostly) doing it right IMO and I admire them for not choosing the road of apologetic "plucky underdog" like dying Rover or starving for their art like Roger Smith painstakingly making a handful of watches a year. Do what you can well, build a reputation for good, reliable watches that look great. Choose your market. Make brand associations and absolutely scream from the rooftops about it. Bremont suffer from snobbery because when we're seeing heritage made in front of our eyes we don't like it, but it's always been that way. Tomorrows Heritage is todays Marketing.
Edited by glazbagun on Wednesday 13th January 12:56
bobbybee said:
Justman said:
I have an MB II and absolutely love it. I work in aviation so love the stories/connection behind each watch and the fact they are different. Also it is so well engineered. I want another one!
Stories I can believe, connections? what connections?They've done a few limited runs on commission, as any 'manufacturer' will do if you pay for it.
glazbagun said:
Whilst I think the In House scandal thing was a massive screwup and they definitely deserve some ridicule served cold, I have absoloutely no time for the "oooh, they buy in their heritage= bunch of frauds" crowd. Every company buys their heritage to a greater or lesser extent, Bremont are just starting later than anyone else. I'd like to see anyone else do better.
Rolex (just an example, I think they're great) bought the patent for the screw-down crown, they didn't create it and weren't the first with a waterproof case. Nor did they create the worlds first self winding wrist watch. None of which you'd expect from reading their marketing. And calling it a Perpetual must have had watch collectors of the time choking into their tea! They made and make) good watches, but the rest of it is marketing- getting to Everest, who remembers Smiths? Diving watches, who (in the general public) knows what a Fifty Fathoms is? No-one cares. Make a good product, market it well.
Short of the Comex Rolex and the 321 Speedmaster, what else has marketing that you couldn't buy at the time?
They're all at it, and the ones who aren't are nowhere- Hamilton have a heritage to kill for, hell they might have won us the war! But they're packaged as an introductory brand and priced accordingly. A travesty. Half of the Swiss have been bankrupt or in the wilderness at some point- where was Breguet before Hayek saved them? Yet the industry is littered with amazing companies doing amazing work which noone buys or hears of because the entire industry is about marketing, customer eperience, marketing and how good you are at it. Who even knows who Urban Jurgensen are or would even recognise the name of Derek Pratt? For a certain market exclusivity might be a good thing, but that isn't Bremont's market.
They are (mostly) doing it right IMO and I admire them for not choosing the road of apologetic "plucky underdog" like dying Rover or starving for their art like Roger Smith painstakingly making a handful of watches a year. Do what you can well, build a reputation for good, reliable watches that look great. Choose your market. Make brand associations and absolutely scream from the rooftops about it. Bremont suffer from snobbery because when we're seeing heritage made in front of our eyes we don't like it, but it's always been that way. Tomorrows Heritage is todays Marketing.
Great post.Rolex (just an example, I think they're great) bought the patent for the screw-down crown, they didn't create it and weren't the first with a waterproof case. Nor did they create the worlds first self winding wrist watch. None of which you'd expect from reading their marketing. And calling it a Perpetual must have had watch collectors of the time choking into their tea! They made and make) good watches, but the rest of it is marketing- getting to Everest, who remembers Smiths? Diving watches, who (in the general public) knows what a Fifty Fathoms is? No-one cares. Make a good product, market it well.
Short of the Comex Rolex and the 321 Speedmaster, what else has marketing that you couldn't buy at the time?
They're all at it, and the ones who aren't are nowhere- Hamilton have a heritage to kill for, hell they might have won us the war! But they're packaged as an introductory brand and priced accordingly. A travesty. Half of the Swiss have been bankrupt or in the wilderness at some point- where was Breguet before Hayek saved them? Yet the industry is littered with amazing companies doing amazing work which noone buys or hears of because the entire industry is about marketing, customer eperience, marketing and how good you are at it. Who even knows who Urban Jurgensen are or would even recognise the name of Derek Pratt? For a certain market exclusivity might be a good thing, but that isn't Bremont's market.
They are (mostly) doing it right IMO and I admire them for not choosing the road of apologetic "plucky underdog" like dying Rover or starving for their art like Roger Smith painstakingly making a handful of watches a year. Do what you can well, build a reputation for good, reliable watches that look great. Choose your market. Make brand associations and absolutely scream from the rooftops about it. Bremont suffer from snobbery because when we're seeing heritage made in front of our eyes we don't like it, but it's always been that way. Tomorrows Heritage is todays Marketing.
Edited by glazbagun on Wednesday 13th January 12:56
Lots of love here, but for me, they just seem like style over substance.
Wander into the Royal Exchange and it's hard to work out that Bremont sell watches. Then take a look at the Omega shop - No gimmicks, just watches.
The watches are quite nice (a bit more upmarket than CW), but I struggle to equate the cost with what you're getting. The shop tells me where the cost in a Bremont is and it doesn't end up on your wrist.
I'm sure some see the Kingsman connection as a cheeky nod to the Omega/Rolex 'Bond' tie ins, but to me it sort of sums Bremont up.
Theconnection comparison with Roger Smith is, frankly, insulting to him. Bremont don't MAKE anything...
Not for me, I'm afraid, even at 30% off.
M.
Wander into the Royal Exchange and it's hard to work out that Bremont sell watches. Then take a look at the Omega shop - No gimmicks, just watches.
The watches are quite nice (a bit more upmarket than CW), but I struggle to equate the cost with what you're getting. The shop tells me where the cost in a Bremont is and it doesn't end up on your wrist.
I'm sure some see the Kingsman connection as a cheeky nod to the Omega/Rolex 'Bond' tie ins, but to me it sort of sums Bremont up.
The
Not for me, I'm afraid, even at 30% off.
M.
Edited by marcosgt on Thursday 14th January 09:16
glazbagun said:
Short of the Comex Rolex and the 321 Speedmaster, what else has marketing that you couldn't buy at the time?
Bremont suffer from snobbery because when we're seeing heritage made in front of our eyes we don't like it, but it's always been that way. Tomorrows Heritage is todays Marketing.
Mil-Spec RolexBremont suffer from snobbery because when we're seeing heritage made in front of our eyes we don't like it, but it's always been that way. Tomorrows Heritage is todays Marketing.
Airforce Omega
Both of which were chosen for issue for several decades, rather than having commissioned pieces for sale. None of which had to have a bit of scrap incorporated into their cases just to make some sort of tenuous 'historical' link.
Don't get me wrong I'm not a Bremont watch snob, I'm not keen on their designs, but can appreciate a well machined case with attention to detail. It's the brand BS that's the rub.
And yes I do 'get it' that current marketing and associations eventually become heritage, that's all good, but the BS of current marketing saying "look how historical we are, honest, coz we like old planes 'n' stuff" for a company so new makes it hard to swallow.
Never mind their blatant lying, in-house ahem and the Wright brothers restoration
I do wish them well however, about time decent engineering came back to these shores, rather than being a screwdriver nation.
marcosgt said:
glazbagun said:
marcosgt said:
The connection with Roger Smith is, frankly, insulting to him. Bremont don't MAKE anything...
They've claimed a connection with Roger Smith?M
As I noted in my post, Bremont made an error of judgement that will hopefully internally haunt them forever when they over-egged how "in house" their Wright Flyer movement was. But you're incorrect in your assertion that they don't make anything. They've a manufacturing plant in England making case parts and a small number of movement parts:
<article/marketing-heavy-advert below>
http://www.ablogtowatch.com/inside-bremonts-britis...
Rome wasn't built in a day and Wright Flyer controversy or not, I still think they have plenty to crow about.
Edited by glazbagun on Thursday 14th January 12:13
glazbagun said:
As I noted in my post, Bremont made an error of judgement that will hopefully internally haunt them forever when they over-egged how "in house" their Wright Flyer movement was.
They were actually lying. An watch owner might be excused for being confused about how in house their watch movement is, but not the manufacturer. To me this dishonesty is unfortunately just the end result of an intent focus on cynically trying to manufacturing this brands history. Other brands have a history because they've been around for ages, trying to create a history like this just puts people off. It's very unfortunate because they have some interesting designs. They should let the watches speak for themselves and forget about all the fake marketing.
gvij said:
If you don't shout from rooftops then no one is going to hear. They sell 8000 watches a year. That's around 10-15 millions worth . That's some accomplishment in the little over a decade or so they've been up and running.
Yup so no need to make stuff up and fabricate history. Or are you saying buyers are superficial and only bought the watches because they were attracted to all the fake herritage and tall tales about in house movements. 
As much as I appreciate PP's watches (the 5711 could be considered to be something of a grail to me) their "You never actually own a Patek Philippe..." marketing line is, to be blunt, b
ks. Sure, it's nice to have the passing it down thing as a bonus however you can do that with any watch, and first and foremost the watch should be bought for the not particularly selfish reason other than the purchaser likes the watch first, regardless as to the reason.
I've nothing against Bremont's marketing at all, in fact hats off to them. They took a massive stumble in the WIS community with their movement fiasco - possibly as a result of trying to run before walking - yet I doubt the rest of the world noticed. They're well made watches using well sourced components with the intent to manufacturer more of their own components in the future - sounds good to me.
ks. Sure, it's nice to have the passing it down thing as a bonus however you can do that with any watch, and first and foremost the watch should be bought for the not particularly selfish reason other than the purchaser likes the watch first, regardless as to the reason.I've nothing against Bremont's marketing at all, in fact hats off to them. They took a massive stumble in the WIS community with their movement fiasco - possibly as a result of trying to run before walking - yet I doubt the rest of the world noticed. They're well made watches using well sourced components with the intent to manufacturer more of their own components in the future - sounds good to me.
el stovey said:
gvij said:
If you don't shout from rooftops then no one is going to hear. They sell 8000 watches a year. That's around 10-15 millions worth . That's some accomplishment in the little over a decade or so they've been up and running.
Yup so no need to make stuff up and fabricate history. Or are you saying buyers are superficial and only bought the watches because they were attracted to all the fake herritage and tall tales about in house movements. gvij said:
They are just a junior of Rolex ,pp, ap and the rest.
What nonsense, those brands have real history, real connections with the military and other human achievements.Rolex for example, up Everest, down the mariana trench, it's been the highest up and the lowest down. Omega have been in space and on the moon. Worn by heroes like Red Adiar, the cool like Steve McQueen and Paul Newman. These aren't marketing stories they are fact.
Bremont? Nothing of the sort, just BS
glazbagun said:
No problem. It was me who made the comparison, but I was comparing business models. It is certainly no insult to Roger to point out that the business model of a small independent is not the same as that of a volume producer of watches.
As I noted in my post, Bremont made an error of judgement that will hopefully internally haunt them forever when they over-egged how "in house" their Wright Flyer movement was. But you're incorrect in your assertion that they don't make anything. They've a manufacturing plant in England making case parts and a small number of movement parts:
<article/marketing-heavy-advert below>
http://www.ablogtowatch.com/inside-bremonts-britis...
Rome wasn't built in a day and Wright Flyer controversy or not, I still think they have plenty to crow about.
I stand corrected on my remark about them making nothing, but it's still so far removed from Roger Smith as to be worthy of Bremont (or even CW!) marketing, but then marketing is all about fooling some of the people.As I noted in my post, Bremont made an error of judgement that will hopefully internally haunt them forever when they over-egged how "in house" their Wright Flyer movement was. But you're incorrect in your assertion that they don't make anything. They've a manufacturing plant in England making case parts and a small number of movement parts:
<article/marketing-heavy-advert below>
http://www.ablogtowatch.com/inside-bremonts-britis...
Rome wasn't built in a day and Wright Flyer controversy or not, I still think they have plenty to crow about.
I don't wish them any ill, but I think the perception that they project of their place in the market is quite far removed from the reality.
M
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