Fakes, what's the feeling?
Discussion
EddieSteadyGo said:
Marc p said:
The criminal gang thing circulates all the time, this is your low end watches that are nigh on mass produced, visible reps and sold on the market stalls across the world, the high end stuff is very much specialised watch makers that spend many hours making the watches, we are just utilising Chinas cheap labour rate.
This is at best a spurious defence.The problem with a fake watch is you are stealing the design and intellectual property from the manufacturer. Then passing it off as the real thing.
There is nothing clever in this from my perspective.
I know that you aren't mental, even though you do sound mental...
Have you looked inside it? I'm presuming that you have. Clone ETA movement? What's the finish like? What sort of price? A lot of questions but I don't think I've come across anyone before who has one, whose opinion I trust - they're usually misguided 'Swiss replica' delusionists.
Have you looked inside it? I'm presuming that you have. Clone ETA movement? What's the finish like? What sort of price? A lot of questions but I don't think I've come across anyone before who has one, whose opinion I trust - they're usually misguided 'Swiss replica' delusionists.
GC8 said:
I know that you aren't mental, even though you do sound mental...
Have you looked inside it? I'm presuming that you have. Clone ETA movement? What's the finish like? What sort of price? A lot of questions but I don't think I've come across anyone before who has one, whose opinion I trust - they're usually misguided 'Swiss replica' delusionists.
Well that was on cue we were just discussing badgers arsesHave you looked inside it? I'm presuming that you have. Clone ETA movement? What's the finish like? What sort of price? A lot of questions but I don't think I've come across anyone before who has one, whose opinion I trust - they're usually misguided 'Swiss replica' delusionists.
NeMiSiS said:
GC8 said:
I know that you aren't mental, even though you do sound mental...
Have you looked inside it? I'm presuming that you have. Clone ETA movement? What's the finish like? What sort of price? A lot of questions but I don't think I've come across anyone before who has one, whose opinion I trust - they're usually misguided 'Swiss replica' delusionists.
I have had it in bits, movement out, crystal out, took photos too, replaced 'O' rings {4 of} and that's it, runs perfect, swimming, saunas, shooting, no issues, HUGE though.Have you looked inside it? I'm presuming that you have. Clone ETA movement? What's the finish like? What sort of price? A lot of questions but I don't think I've come across anyone before who has one, whose opinion I trust - they're usually misguided 'Swiss replica' delusionists.
I would like to share my findings but I am scared that there maybe a knock on the door.
Countdown said:
el stovey said:
If you're buying a watch because you think it gives you perceived status, and you're worried other people are getting the same status on the cheap, then you probably need to have a good look at yourself.
Spot on.Strange old world...
lostkiwi said:
There is an assumption here that a replica (fake/counterfeit whatever term doesn't matter) is just a worthless piece of tat.
I've seen a replica Panerai that was so convincing even the authorised dealer couldn't tell (and it has a sapphire glass back) so the movement was fully visible. The movement was the same (Unitas 6497) and to all intents and purposes it was visually (and weight) identical to the real thing. Aside from water resistance I'd not expect it to be all that inferior to the real thing.
I'd have no reason not to expect it to behave like any other £175 mechanical watch. He's had it 3 years so far and its never once had an issue and still looks as good as a new one (and its worn every day).
Given the genuine item costs 20 times as much.....
Yes there are cheap and nasty ones as well but the good ones out there are seriously convincing.
You could almost ask which watch is the fraud if the craftsmanship of the original can be copied so well and so easily. I've seen a replica Panerai that was so convincing even the authorised dealer couldn't tell (and it has a sapphire glass back) so the movement was fully visible. The movement was the same (Unitas 6497) and to all intents and purposes it was visually (and weight) identical to the real thing. Aside from water resistance I'd not expect it to be all that inferior to the real thing.
I'd have no reason not to expect it to behave like any other £175 mechanical watch. He's had it 3 years so far and its never once had an issue and still looks as good as a new one (and its worn every day).
Given the genuine item costs 20 times as much.....
Yes there are cheap and nasty ones as well but the good ones out there are seriously convincing.
GC8 said:
Fraud is a strong word. More like emporer's new clothes.
Worthless $100 Unitas pocket watch movement rotated and fitted into a simple case. Panerai prices are a joke and I am going to sell their owners my magic beans...
It's the elephant in the room with regards to a rather large number of watches and other premium goods. Revive an old brand name, add marketing, churn it out. Worthless $100 Unitas pocket watch movement rotated and fitted into a simple case. Panerai prices are a joke and I am going to sell their owners my magic beans...
GC8 said:
Fraud is a strong word. More like emporer's new clothes.
Worthless $100 Unitas pocket watch movement rotated and fitted into a simple case. Panerai prices are a joke and I am going to sell their owners my magic beans...
That's the thing. It's a con.Worthless $100 Unitas pocket watch movement rotated and fitted into a simple case. Panerai prices are a joke and I am going to sell their owners my magic beans...
There are fools that get drawn in to buy the 'real thing', and there are wise men who would simply buy a 'fake' and get value for money.
V6Pushfit said:
That's the thing. It's a con.
There are fools that get drawn in to buy the 'real thing', and there are wise men who would simply buy a 'fake' and get value for money.
Why buy a fake if you don't want the real thing? If the argument is that a watch is just a watch, and a way of telling the time, buy any old watch for the job. £15 will see you with something functional, £100 will get you something that looks suitably "sporty" if it's the look you're after.There are fools that get drawn in to buy the 'real thing', and there are wise men who would simply buy a 'fake' and get value for money.
The only reason to buy a fake is the same reason I bought a real one - to show off to people.
I make no apology for it - it's the same reason I spend more than £15 on jeans, or the reason anyone really buys branded goods - to show the rest of the world you can.Doubtless there are people who buy for the quality, but they're a minority. Yes, if the quality is awful then you wouldn't spend the money on it, but I didn't buy it because it's nicely made - everything available new in the western world for more than a couple of hundred pounds is nicely made, that's just modern manufacturing for you. I bought mine to show off, and my particular model because it's "better" than the one a work mate has.
You can argue that makes me a mug, but guess what - I don't care. I wasn't going to spend the money on anything more worthwhile, and I gain pleasure from owning it.
V6Pushfit said:
There are fools that get drawn in to buy the 'real thing', and there are wise men who would simply buy a 'fake' and get value for money.
You've made this point a few times. Whilst I don't agree, its your prerogative to post your view. Would be interest to know though if you weren't posting anonymously whether you would still be as strident.
But that's one of the few honest reasons to blow some cash.
We are blokes, we are born to compete and buying a watch just to upstage a colleague is really a perfectly human thing to do.
But some people involved in the arms race will think that using debt to leap ahead or short cutting the whole thing by getting a fake is cheating. It is a competition after all.
We are blokes, we are born to compete and buying a watch just to upstage a colleague is really a perfectly human thing to do.
But some people involved in the arms race will think that using debt to leap ahead or short cutting the whole thing by getting a fake is cheating. It is a competition after all.
DanL said:
V6Pushfit said:
That's the thing. It's a con.
There are fools that get drawn in to buy the 'real thing', and there are wise men who would simply buy a 'fake' and get value for money.
Why buy a fake if you don't want the real thing? If the argument is that a watch is just a watch, and a way of telling the time, buy any old watch for the job. £15 will see you with something functional, £100 will get you something that looks suitably "sporty" if it's the look you're after.There are fools that get drawn in to buy the 'real thing', and there are wise men who would simply buy a 'fake' and get value for money.
The only reason to buy a fake is the same reason I bought a real one - to show off to people.
I make no apology for it - it's the same reason I spend more than £15 on jeans, or the reason anyone really buys branded goods - to show the rest of the world you can.Doubtless there are people who buy for the quality, but they're a minority. Yes, if the quality is awful then you wouldn't spend the money on it, but I didn't buy it because it's nicely made - everything available new in the western world for more than a couple of hundred pounds is nicely made, that's just modern manufacturing for you. I bought mine to show off, and my particular model because it's "better" than the one a work mate has.
You can argue that makes me a mug, but guess what - I don't care. I wasn't going to spend the money on anything more worthwhile, and I gain pleasure from owning it.
You might buy a fake to give an impression of status. It's no different to your reasons for buying one, just that the person buying the fake has spent a lot less than you did.
Infact, nobody with half a brain is impressed by someone else owning an expensive watch. If you link your self worth to your watch and you're buying a genuine watch to impress others, you perhaps need some kind of MOT on your personality.
Have you honestly looked at someone with a more expensive watch than you and been impressed. I mean actually thought that person is in some way better than you, because of their watch?
DonkeyApple said:
We are blokes, we are born to compete and buying a watch just to upstage a colleague is really a perfectly human thing to do.
Speak for yourself. That's utterly pathetic. It might be normal in your world or workplace but where I work, people generally don't give a toss about each other's stuff. Anyone bragging about their belongings or trying to upstage others with something like a watch would be branded as a complete arse. I'm glad I don't work with any of you guys.
DonkeyApple said:
But some people involved in the arms race will think that using debt to leap ahead or short cutting the whole thing by getting a fake is cheating. It is a competition after all.
I wouldn't say using debt is cheating. I might think it's a little nuts to get into debt for something as trivial as a watch, but who am I to tell people how to spend their money?Fakes are "cheating" I suppose, but if you want a fake, again - I don't care. It may actually help me at some point - if I'm mugged I'll claim mine is a fake, maybe I'll get to keep it. If not, well - that's what insurance is for.
The thing I object to on this thread is people telling me that they're smarter than I am for buying a fake, or that I've in some way been conned by marketing. If you were smarter, you'd earn enough that you don't have to worry about the price and could have bought a real one.
Bet someone says "I could buy a real one, but I choose not to waste my money on one". Fine, but that rather makes my point about not earning enough. Note - I don't say not earning more than me. I'm sure many here do, and many of them see an expensive watch as a waste because they have different priorities to me. However, if it were an immaterial amount of money to them, I imagine they'd buy one - after all, why not?For clarity, it wasn't an immaterial amount of money to me - however, it was money I happened to have, and it wasn't going to buy me a much better car, save a noticeable amount of money on a mortgage, or change my life in any other way, so why not treat myself to a "thing"? I could have had an amazing holiday instead, but chose not to. Others make different choices, and that's fine. Doesn't make me stupid, or them geniuses tho.
DanL said:
DonkeyApple said:
But some people involved in the arms race will think that using debt to leap ahead or short cutting the whole thing by getting a fake is cheating. It is a competition after all.
I wouldn't say using debt is cheating. I might think it's a little nuts to get into debt for something as trivial as a watch, but who am I to tell people how to spend their money?Fakes are "cheating" I suppose, but if you want a fake, again - I don't care. It may actually help me at some point - if I'm mugged I'll claim mine is a fake, maybe I'll get to keep it. If not, well - that's what insurance is for.
The thing I object to on this thread is people telling me that they're smarter than I am for buying a fake, or that I've in some way been conned by marketing. If you were smarter, you'd earn enough that you don't have to worry about the price and could have bought a real one.
Bet someone says "I could buy a real one, but I choose not to waste my money on one". Fine, but that rather makes my point about not earning enough. Note - I don't say not earning more than me. I'm sure many here do, and many of them see an expensive watch as a waste because they have different priorities to me. However, if it were an immaterial amount of money to them, I imagine they'd buy one - after all, why not?For clarity, it wasn't an immaterial amount of money to me - however, it was money I happened to have, and it wasn't going to buy me a much better car, save a noticeable amount of money on a mortgage, or change my life in any other way, so why not treat myself to a "thing"? I could have had an amazing holiday instead, but chose not to. Others make different choices, and that's fine. Doesn't make me stupid, or them geniuses tho.
el stovey said:
Have you honestly looked at someone with a more expensive watch than you and been impressed. I mean actually thought that person is in some way better than you, because of their watch?
Impressed that they have a nice watch? Yes. Thought they were better than me as a result? No, but then I don't have an inferiority complex around this sort of thing. The people who do end up scratching nice cars, I imagine. Animals of all species show off one way or another - this is no different. It's not about being "better" than someone. At least, I don't think it is - maybe I'm fooling myself.
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