Rolexes becoming magnetised.
Discussion
13m said:
Bit of an update on this.
I have started storing the watches in an aluminium box in a non-magnetic safe. I am wearing only half the watches.
The half that I am wearing are becoming magnetised, the others aren't. So the problem is occurring when I wear them.
I also note that the watches are becoming magnetised but not necessarily gaining time. This suggests that the magnetisation is not always significant. Other times the watches start to mess about. I tested one yesterday and it was magnetised but keeping good time.
I am starting to wonder whether there is what I'd call "cumulative magnetism" going on. I.e. the watches are becoming a little magnetised a number of times until they start to gain time.
I still suspect my laptop. It clearly emits a decent magnetic field, but bringing an automatic watch into close proximity with it four or five times doesn't magnetise it. Over a few hundred exposures maybe it is causing the problem.
I have found elsewhere on the Internet an account of someone else with (as I recall) as Rolex Sea Dweller who was experiencing cumulative magnetism from his laptops.
Thoughts anyone?
Very interesting problem. Needs a little more experimentation I think to test out the various possibilities.I have started storing the watches in an aluminium box in a non-magnetic safe. I am wearing only half the watches.
The half that I am wearing are becoming magnetised, the others aren't. So the problem is occurring when I wear them.
I also note that the watches are becoming magnetised but not necessarily gaining time. This suggests that the magnetisation is not always significant. Other times the watches start to mess about. I tested one yesterday and it was magnetised but keeping good time.
I am starting to wonder whether there is what I'd call "cumulative magnetism" going on. I.e. the watches are becoming a little magnetised a number of times until they start to gain time.
I still suspect my laptop. It clearly emits a decent magnetic field, but bringing an automatic watch into close proximity with it four or five times doesn't magnetise it. Over a few hundred exposures maybe it is causing the problem.
I have found elsewhere on the Internet an account of someone else with (as I recall) as Rolex Sea Dweller who was experiencing cumulative magnetism from his laptops.
Thoughts anyone?
Will certainly be of use to other in the future if you can nail this one completely.
It is extremely difficult to magnetize any decent mechanical watch nowadays, and if you do so the only part that will affect timekeeping is the balance spring. If your watch becomes magnetized then you will notice a huge difference in time loss. Of course with the newer Parachrom spring you will not be able to magnetize it, and definitely not the even newer silicon type named Syloxi.
Vanguard21 said:
It is extremely difficult to magnetize any decent mechanical watch nowadays, and if you do so the only part that will affect timekeeping is the balance spring. If your watch becomes magnetized then you will notice a huge difference in time loss. Of course with the newer Parachrom spring you will not be able to magnetize it, and definitely not the even newer silicon type named Syloxi.
If I recall correctly my 14060m with random serial number is panachrom. That can be magnetised and indeed was until I demagged it this morning. I do notice however that it is one that is least affected.It is not correct that magnetisation necessarily causes huge timekeeping errors. My watches start to run 10-20 seconds per day fast before I demag them. I have also returned to Rolex a watch with similar inaccuracy to be advised that magnetisation was the cause.
I was of the same view that magnetisation was a rare event. However I am starting to wonder otherwise.
Googling and found this, may be of interest.
In a typical automatic watch this has to be done because multiple parts of the watch get magnetized. Rolex has fought this problem by the following:
Oyster Perpetual Cosmograph Daytona
GUILLAUME — THE ROOTS OF ACCURACY Due to temperature changes, the elasticity of the hairspring actually varies depending on the ambient temperature. If temperature increases, a carbon steel hairspring (the type used prior to Guillaume) will lose its elasticity, resulting in a tendency for the watch to start to lose on its rate. A decrease in temperature will have the opposite effect. Cut, bimetallic compensation balances partially canceled out temperature error, but imperfectly; and in addition, carbon steel hairsprings are extremely prone to becoming magnetized. Guillaume’s invention of a form of nickel steel, known as Invar, resulted in the ability to create so called “self compensating” hairsprings, in which temperature error is almost completely eliminated, and the descendants of such hairsprings are still in use today.
A NEW ERA OF ACCURACY INTRODUCED BY ROLEX All that changed in the 1990s when Rolex discovered and patented a new alloy they named Parachrom that they would use to create hairsprings capable of unprecedented levels of performance. But what makes Parachrom superior to Invar hairsprings? For one, Invar hairsprings are easily susceptible to magnetic influence. Place your watch too close to a stereo speaker and it can easily become magnetized. The coils of the spring attract each other and no longer breathe regularly or concentrically, resulting in major loss of accuracy. Watches becoming magnetized are, to this day, one of the most prevalent service problems. While many manufactures make anti-magnetic watches with soft-iron inner cases, it is only Rolex that has decided to “treat the disease” and not simply alleviate the symptoms of magnetic influence on the hairspring.
The second marked superiority of Parachrom to Invar is its greater suppleness, resulting in hairsprings that are ten times more shock-resistant. The real-world application to a watch equipped with Rolex’s Parachrom hairspring is that you can go through life confident that your watch will not be affected by the vast majority of magnetic fields; that you can wear your Rolex for the most rugged sport without fear that shocks will cause loss of accuracy or, even worse, permanent damage.
Enjoy...:_)
In a typical automatic watch this has to be done because multiple parts of the watch get magnetized. Rolex has fought this problem by the following:
Oyster Perpetual Cosmograph Daytona
GUILLAUME — THE ROOTS OF ACCURACY Due to temperature changes, the elasticity of the hairspring actually varies depending on the ambient temperature. If temperature increases, a carbon steel hairspring (the type used prior to Guillaume) will lose its elasticity, resulting in a tendency for the watch to start to lose on its rate. A decrease in temperature will have the opposite effect. Cut, bimetallic compensation balances partially canceled out temperature error, but imperfectly; and in addition, carbon steel hairsprings are extremely prone to becoming magnetized. Guillaume’s invention of a form of nickel steel, known as Invar, resulted in the ability to create so called “self compensating” hairsprings, in which temperature error is almost completely eliminated, and the descendants of such hairsprings are still in use today.
A NEW ERA OF ACCURACY INTRODUCED BY ROLEX All that changed in the 1990s when Rolex discovered and patented a new alloy they named Parachrom that they would use to create hairsprings capable of unprecedented levels of performance. But what makes Parachrom superior to Invar hairsprings? For one, Invar hairsprings are easily susceptible to magnetic influence. Place your watch too close to a stereo speaker and it can easily become magnetized. The coils of the spring attract each other and no longer breathe regularly or concentrically, resulting in major loss of accuracy. Watches becoming magnetized are, to this day, one of the most prevalent service problems. While many manufactures make anti-magnetic watches with soft-iron inner cases, it is only Rolex that has decided to “treat the disease” and not simply alleviate the symptoms of magnetic influence on the hairspring.
The second marked superiority of Parachrom to Invar is its greater suppleness, resulting in hairsprings that are ten times more shock-resistant. The real-world application to a watch equipped with Rolex’s Parachrom hairspring is that you can go through life confident that your watch will not be affected by the vast majority of magnetic fields; that you can wear your Rolex for the most rugged sport without fear that shocks will cause loss of accuracy or, even worse, permanent damage.
Enjoy...:_)
Vipers said:
Googling and found this, may be of interest.
In a typical automatic watch this has to be done because multiple parts of the watch get magnetized. Rolex has fought this problem by the following:
Oyster Perpetual Cosmograph Daytona
GUILLAUME — THE ROOTS OF ACCURACY Due to temperature changes, the elasticity of the hairspring actually varies depending on the ambient temperature. If temperature increases, a carbon steel hairspring (the type used prior to Guillaume) will lose its elasticity, resulting in a tendency for the watch to start to lose on its rate. A decrease in temperature will have the opposite effect. Cut, bimetallic compensation balances partially canceled out temperature error, but imperfectly; and in addition, carbon steel hairsprings are extremely prone to becoming magnetized. Guillaume’s invention of a form of nickel steel, known as Invar, resulted in the ability to create so called “self compensating” hairsprings, in which temperature error is almost completely eliminated, and the descendants of such hairsprings are still in use today.
A NEW ERA OF ACCURACY INTRODUCED BY ROLEX All that changed in the 1990s when Rolex discovered and patented a new alloy they named Parachrom that they would use to create hairsprings capable of unprecedented levels of performance. But what makes Parachrom superior to Invar hairsprings? For one, Invar hairsprings are easily susceptible to magnetic influence. Place your watch too close to a stereo speaker and it can easily become magnetized. The coils of the spring attract each other and no longer breathe regularly or concentrically, resulting in major loss of accuracy. Watches becoming magnetized are, to this day, one of the most prevalent service problems. While many manufactures make anti-magnetic watches with soft-iron inner cases, it is only Rolex that has decided to “treat the disease” and not simply alleviate the symptoms of magnetic influence on the hairspring.
The second marked superiority of Parachrom to Invar is its greater suppleness, resulting in hairsprings that are ten times more shock-resistant. The real-world application to a watch equipped with Rolex’s Parachrom hairspring is that you can go through life confident that your watch will not be affected by the vast majority of magnetic fields; that you can wear your Rolex for the most rugged sport without fear that shocks will cause loss of accuracy or, even worse, permanent damage.
Enjoy...:_)
Thanks Vipers.In a typical automatic watch this has to be done because multiple parts of the watch get magnetized. Rolex has fought this problem by the following:
Oyster Perpetual Cosmograph Daytona
GUILLAUME — THE ROOTS OF ACCURACY Due to temperature changes, the elasticity of the hairspring actually varies depending on the ambient temperature. If temperature increases, a carbon steel hairspring (the type used prior to Guillaume) will lose its elasticity, resulting in a tendency for the watch to start to lose on its rate. A decrease in temperature will have the opposite effect. Cut, bimetallic compensation balances partially canceled out temperature error, but imperfectly; and in addition, carbon steel hairsprings are extremely prone to becoming magnetized. Guillaume’s invention of a form of nickel steel, known as Invar, resulted in the ability to create so called “self compensating” hairsprings, in which temperature error is almost completely eliminated, and the descendants of such hairsprings are still in use today.
A NEW ERA OF ACCURACY INTRODUCED BY ROLEX All that changed in the 1990s when Rolex discovered and patented a new alloy they named Parachrom that they would use to create hairsprings capable of unprecedented levels of performance. But what makes Parachrom superior to Invar hairsprings? For one, Invar hairsprings are easily susceptible to magnetic influence. Place your watch too close to a stereo speaker and it can easily become magnetized. The coils of the spring attract each other and no longer breathe regularly or concentrically, resulting in major loss of accuracy. Watches becoming magnetized are, to this day, one of the most prevalent service problems. While many manufactures make anti-magnetic watches with soft-iron inner cases, it is only Rolex that has decided to “treat the disease” and not simply alleviate the symptoms of magnetic influence on the hairspring.
The second marked superiority of Parachrom to Invar is its greater suppleness, resulting in hairsprings that are ten times more shock-resistant. The real-world application to a watch equipped with Rolex’s Parachrom hairspring is that you can go through life confident that your watch will not be affected by the vast majority of magnetic fields; that you can wear your Rolex for the most rugged sport without fear that shocks will cause loss of accuracy or, even worse, permanent damage.
Enjoy...:_)
I think this sentence is interesting: "Watches becoming magnetized are, to this day, one of the most prevalent service problems"
I wonder whether magnetism is a bigger problem than people realise but most people don't notice or care that their watches are not accurate. Or possibly, like my watches sometimes, their watches perform okay even when magnetised.*
Omega is starting to roll out anti-magnetic movements: https://journal.hautehorlogerie.org/en/omega-creat...
I've heard the comment, "pah, Omega is solving a problem that doesn't exist". However perhaps they are solving a problem that they are acutely aware does exist.
13m said:
I wonder whether magnetism is a bigger problem than people realise but most people don't notice or care that their watches are not accurate.
Raises two points, when I were a lad to coin a phrase, the clock on the mantle piece was always 5 mins fast on purpose, my mum said it was so you don't miss the bus.And when digital watches were coming out, I read this "As watches are becoming more accurate, we demand more accuracy"
My son doesn't bother, he uses his iPhone if he needs to know the time.
Magnetism can affect mechanical watches on (broadly) two levels.
The first, and most obvious, is a magentised hairspring. If the watch runs at all it'll tend to gain bigtime - of the order of hours a day - because the coils of the spring stick together, effectively shortening the spring by a full coil. Non-magnetic hairsprings protect against this and are the basis for "magnetism isn't a problem for modern watches" theory. That's true to the extent that you won't get a sudden runaway gain from magnetism with them.
But magnetism of other parts can also have a more subtle effect. Things like the keyless works (stem, hand setting and winding levers and gears) tend to be quite close to the balance wheel and are usually made of high carbon (and easily magnetised) steel.
If they do get magnetised then you have the (electrically conductive) balance wheel and hairspring moving in a fixed magnetic field. That's the basis of an eddy current brake, as used on everything from power tools to trains, and it will have an effect on the rate - an unpredictable effect, but an effect all the same.
The first, and most obvious, is a magentised hairspring. If the watch runs at all it'll tend to gain bigtime - of the order of hours a day - because the coils of the spring stick together, effectively shortening the spring by a full coil. Non-magnetic hairsprings protect against this and are the basis for "magnetism isn't a problem for modern watches" theory. That's true to the extent that you won't get a sudden runaway gain from magnetism with them.
But magnetism of other parts can also have a more subtle effect. Things like the keyless works (stem, hand setting and winding levers and gears) tend to be quite close to the balance wheel and are usually made of high carbon (and easily magnetised) steel.
If they do get magnetised then you have the (electrically conductive) balance wheel and hairspring moving in a fixed magnetic field. That's the basis of an eddy current brake, as used on everything from power tools to trains, and it will have an effect on the rate - an unpredictable effect, but an effect all the same.
Variomatic said:
Magnetism can affect mechanical watches on (broadly) two levels.
The first, and most obvious, is a magentised hairspring. If the watch runs at all it'll tend to gain bigtime - of the order of hours a day - because the coils of the spring stick together, effectively shortening the spring by a full coil. Non-magnetic hairsprings protect against this and are the basis for "magnetism isn't a problem for modern watches" theory. That's true to the extent that you won't get a sudden runaway gain from magnetism with them.
But magnetism of other parts can also have a more subtle effect. Things like the keyless works (stem, hand setting and winding levers and gears) tend to be quite close to the balance wheel and are usually made of high carbon (and easily magnetised) steel.
If they do get magnetised then you have the (electrically conductive) balance wheel and hairspring moving in a fixed magnetic field. That's the basis of an eddy current brake, as used on everything from power tools to trains, and it will have an effect on the rate - an unpredictable effect, but an effect all the same.
It sounds very much as though I am experiencing the second variety.The first, and most obvious, is a magentised hairspring. If the watch runs at all it'll tend to gain bigtime - of the order of hours a day - because the coils of the spring stick together, effectively shortening the spring by a full coil. Non-magnetic hairsprings protect against this and are the basis for "magnetism isn't a problem for modern watches" theory. That's true to the extent that you won't get a sudden runaway gain from magnetism with them.
But magnetism of other parts can also have a more subtle effect. Things like the keyless works (stem, hand setting and winding levers and gears) tend to be quite close to the balance wheel and are usually made of high carbon (and easily magnetised) steel.
If they do get magnetised then you have the (electrically conductive) balance wheel and hairspring moving in a fixed magnetic field. That's the basis of an eddy current brake, as used on everything from power tools to trains, and it will have an effect on the rate - an unpredictable effect, but an effect all the same.
Disastrous said:
Is this possibly you?
I've removed the Magneto reference, but the original question I'll keep. The reason being, that it could be you (in big boomy, National Lottery style voice). My evidence to support the theory is my wife. She cannot get a battery watch to last longer than 6mth before it is dead as a dodo, and that counts for new watches as well as old. She also wipes the magnetic strips on debit-type cards quite frequently. All she does is come into contact with them for a period of time (no exact durations, just that at some point the cards stop working in swipe machines). We've tried to get a her to use an automatic watch, but she doesn't like the size of the casings as she tends to wear watches face down on her wrist, so unfortunately I can't say that she affects mechanical watches the same way as battery.The point; you may be inducing a magnetic field into your watches.
Maybe.
Dr_Rick said:
Disastrous said:
Is this possibly you?
I've removed the Magneto reference, but the original question I'll keep. The reason being, that it could be you (in big boomy, National Lottery style voice). My evidence to support the theory is my wife. She cannot get a battery watch to last longer than 6mth before it is dead as a dodo, and that counts for new watches as well as old. She also wipes the magnetic strips on debit-type cards quite frequently. All she does is come into contact with them for a period of time (no exact durations, just that at some point the cards stop working in swipe machines). We've tried to get a her to use an automatic watch, but she doesn't like the size of the casings as she tends to wear watches face down on her wrist, so unfortunately I can't say that she affects mechanical watches the same way as battery.The point; you may be inducing a magnetic field into your watches.
Maybe.
Vipers said:
How does she read the time. Undoing a watch every time you want to see the face seems a bit OTT. Why not try a nurses watch, or pocket watch.
Fair enough - SPG error.She doesn't wear a watch at all now - just uses her mobile to show her the time when needed, plus it holds her debit cards so she doesn't hold them. Not convinced the phone won't fry the cards, but we'll see.
Still, we're left with a BNIB ladies mechanical watch in the safe. Only thing is, it's not a particularly high end one.
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